Forcing ranked instead of fixing the game first


(Press E) #1

Bugs are fine in public matches, but why push ranked when the game is in such a sore state? And not even a pre-season? I get SD likes to go through phases of content and bug fixes, but why push competitive when the game clearly isn’t in a proper state for it? Hell, I can’t even melee finish bodies half the time because of how broken the system is.
Season 3 was a disaster imo. Whether or not you agree with me, it’s clear not nearly as many people were playing it as there should have been.

Hell, most veteran players that I know hate CMM, and the only changes that SD seems to be making are “shove people into a match faster!”
I sure as hell hope ranked matchmaking has changed a lot since then, because if not I’m afraid it’ll sink like season 3 and even the end of season 2. It’s just not fun playing the same unbalanced games with the same premades, and now doing it with a tonne of bugs leaning on your back.

I’m glad they postponed the season, but sadly it wasn’t to fix any of the bugs people have been complaining about forever.
I might be too angry about this, but I really want to play a decent game of ranked. But with SD kicking out most of their private testers and ignoring the official forums. I’m not exactly looking forward to this next season…


(GatoCommodore) #2

with SD kicking out most of their private testers

how did you know this?


(nokiII) #3

@STARRYSOCK said:
and ignoring the official forums.

Looking at this forum, I would say, they’ve got a pretty good reason to do so.


(TheWickedsin) #4

I have to agree with you. I didn’t play season 2 much and played enough 3 to get a rank and that was it. Took forever as a solo que’er to get a match and wasn’t near as fun as server browser. Melee has gotten even more broken now. As a example I find phantom completely unplayable because of the broken melee, hit box wonkiness and general issues with him in particular but I’ve seen it with all mercs and melee weapons. I want to like it but it isn’t a draw for me.


(Press E) #5

@GatoCommodore said:

with SD kicking out most of their private testers

how did you know this?

It’s not a secret, SD recently closed down the PTS servers except for, as far as I know, founders and a few special content creators. People haven’t been quiet about it. I’d be surprised if anyone who follows DB didn’t know by now.

@nokiII said:

@STARRYSOCK said:
and ignoring the official forums.

Looking at this forum, I would say, they’ve got a pretty good reason to do so.

They’re the official forums regardless. Ignoring your community, a lot of whom have been playing for ages, isn’t a good idea.


(Homu1124) #6

@STARRYSOCK said:
Bugs are fine in public matches, but why push ranked when the game is in such a sore state? And not even a pre-season? I get SD likes to go through phases of content and bug fixes, but why push competitive when the game clearly isn’t in a proper state for it? Hell, I can’t even melee finish bodies half the time because of how broken the system is.
Season 3 was a disaster imo. Whether or not you agree with me, it’s clear not nearly as many people were playing it as there should have been.

Hell, most veteran players that I know hate CMM, and the only changes that SD seems to be making are “shove people into a match faster!”
I sure as hell hope ranked matchmaking has changed a lot since then, because if not I’m afraid it’ll sink like season 3 and even the end of season 2. It’s just not fun playing the same unbalanced games with the same premades, and now doing it with a tonne of bugs leaning on your back.

I’m glad they postponed the season, but sadly it wasn’t to fix any of the bugs people have been complaining about forever.
I might be too angry about this, but I really want to play a decent game of ranked. But with SD kicking out most of their private testers and ignoring the official forums. I’m not exactly looking forward to this next season…

Well spoken. It’s sad that they have not made statements (here or on YT) about making a more enjoyable ranked experience. They have yet to say anything about the poor rewards/slaps on the face for going through terrible matches that you give your all in and the pathetic premades that somehow place you against the same stacked team in a row. Honestly, bugs are gonna happen and I’m glad they are working to fix them, even though they don’t seem to be patching the important bugs (aura station melee and melee finishes and obscuring ragdolls).

And omfg if that melee bug comes to ranked, it’s gonna be a s***show. Come on, the animation is showing my blade right on him. Did the update compress everyone’s arms!? In fact, how am I supposed to finish someone with a katana irl if I have to squat to swing and hit him? That’s not realistic!


(DarkangelUK) #7

In my view these are the official ‘Nexon’ forums that Nexon wanted set up so they could interact with the community direct, SD didn’t really have a hand in that. Personally I think SD kept them on due to popular demand rather than wanting another forum to manage and liaise with. They’ve always shown a preference to social media, reddit and the SD forums but even their own ones dont get that much interaction from them.


(Press E) #8

@DarkangelUK said:
In my view these are the official ‘Nexon’ forums that Nexon wanted set up so they could interact with the community direct, SD didn’t really have a hand in that. Personally I think SD kept them on due to popular demand rather than wanting another forum to manage and liaise with. They’ve always shown a preference to social media, reddit and the SD forums but even their own ones dont get that much interaction from them.

I can get if they feel that way, but I mean, a lot of the people here are people who’ve played this game forever like I said. You think they’d at least make an effort to comment here more. It’s not like the place is very active anyways.


(DarkangelUK) #9

I understand your POV but these forums were more forced on them than requested. The SD forums have been on the go since 2001 and don’t get any more activity than this place gets and that’s where the people that have been playing the longest reside. The DB subreddit has been active just as long as these forums (Early 2013) however have a much larger crowd and participation. I think Shoe is quite stretched as it is as he’s been quiet across the board for the most part, hopefully with the new hiring wave we’ll get another community manager that can engage in all locations.


(Melinder) #10

@DarkangelUK said:
I think Shoe is quite stretched as it is as he’s been quiet across the board for the most part, hopefully with the new hiring wave we’ll get another community manager that can engage in all locations.

Playing PUBG and going to the pub is indeed quite strenuous on the body and the mind.


(DarkangelUK) #11

What he does on his own time is up to him.


(bushyg) #12

Yeah looks great for the game when you basically ignore the apparently ‘official’ forums.

I’m having a hard time believing that the few remaining PTS players were actually queuing up for ranked on a test servers. Sounds like bullshit. There’s been 4 seasons of ranked prior, one even released with broken stopwatch that awarded the winners a loss. Seems like the sort of thing you’d get right after time, instead we get not even a days notice that ranked isn’t coming till later this week, due to an undisclosed bug. So much for the promise for more communication.

There’s a plethora of things wrong atm; EV lag, server warp, FPS stuttering/drops, weapon swap bugs, broken melee, etc. These, along with CMM, have made the game less enjoyable for most players, subsequently leading to a new merc release not even slightly boosting player numbers (Guardian/Javelin drama aside).

These issues not being fixed shouldn’t stop ranked from coming back though. The pub experience is as important to the games life, along with ranked. As much as some players are looking forward to ranked, myself included, I’ll dare say it’s going to be the same old shit show that last season was, regardless of whether or not any of those issues have been fixed.

Partied players along with dynamic queue will never work well with the games current population. People should strive to play with more players, gather some friends or even join a clan or community and stop viewing it as a ‘elitist’ stigma. Playing a ranked style mode without communication isn’t a great experience, neither is queuing up with random players and expecting cohesion, especially when the level cap is level 7 (which everyone agrees is ridiculously low). Also the voice chat in this game needs some serious work, not being able to adjust player volumes is a joke and the standard volumes are a mess.

The one other stand out feature that ranked lacks is merc limitations. Ranked mode will never be truly competitive without it. The best solution I can think of is all mercs need to be unlocked for ranked. All bronze loadouts need available to players (selling these has always been idiotic in my eyes). If SD choose to keep the 3 merc system in place, you’d need subsequent warnings for players choosing a merc that’s already been picked, with an eventual lockout. Playing against 3-4 Arty’s on chapel for example, is absurd and shouldn’t be possible in a competitive environment.

Well, that’s all the ranting I can be bothered to do atm, not like any SD employee is going to reply on these forums anyway.


(frostyvampire) #13

You think Dirty Bomb has too many bugs?
God you clearly never played Rainbow Six before. It has 100 times as many bugs as Dirty Bomb and they are a lot more game breaking than in DB.
And R6 is not in beta AND it has a pro league in it.

So compared to Ubisoft, I think Splash Damage is doing great with their game. I personally like CMM more than the old system, stomps are pretty rare for me now and it feels a lot better to me


(K1X455) #14

I hope it doesn’t undergo another Summer Squash…

It’ll really put me off this game if I get any more hic-ups, freezes and fps issues.


(GatoCommodore) #15

@frostyvampire said:
You think Dirty Bomb has too many bugs?
God you clearly never played Rainbow Six before. It has 100 times as many bugs as Dirty Bomb and they are a lot more game breaking than in DB.
And R6 is not in beta AND it has a pro league in it.

So compared to Ubisoft, I think Splash Damage is doing great with their game. I personally like CMM more than the old system, stomps are pretty rare for me now and it feels a lot better to me

i remember hibana charge bug in the pro league
the commentator went:

“oh yeah that” then proceed to
“i wonder what happened there”
i laughed so hard there

also the visor hitbox kill made my day too.


(GatoCommodore) #16

hey, able to play other games is good yknow…


(ImSploosh) #17

Agreed. There are TONS of bugs, and a lot that have been discussed too many times now. Some of them people have even given up on trying to get fixed because after countless updates, they never are. Melee keeps breaking after each update and there’s countless other irritating bugs that will make ranked play terrible. As for CMM, I don’t even play it. They seem to be ignoring many of the community’s requests like adding the option to choose your sub region so you don’t play in high ping servers. Things like that are necessary. Plus, CMM doesn’t feel very casual and I’ve already talked about that enough D: But I’ve given up lol

This forum has been essentially abandoned, or so it feels anyway. Reddit is the most active, but the devs seem to ignore the community or even the largest threads there. The biggest example I can think of off-hand is the thread that I made about Guardian’s special edition case: https://www.reddit.com/r/Dirtybomb/comments/75bpil/guardian_special_edition_case_will_be_rng/

Maybe the devs took a peak at the thread? Maybe not. But it was ignored despite getting tons of attention and a ton of upvotes. No one supplied a reasonable counter-argument, but nearly everyone agreed. Unfortunately, Guardian was still released with the crappy special edition RNG case so the devs will miss out on my money, as well as plenty of others’.

From that thread alone, I counted over 20 people who stated they would not purchase the case. There were also people on this forum who said the same, plenty of people in-game, and I’m sure a lot more who just haven’t said anything. So that’s $400 they’re missing out on from just the one thread. Who knows how much money they could actually make if they listened to us.

I think some sort of reasonable explanation or acknowledgement on the thread would have been nice. Instead… nothing. That thread of mine was just an example though. There’s also other instances like on the bug megathreads that we have on each forum. Some bugs that are persistent and really ruin the experience haven’t been fixed after many updates although they were posted a lot and discussed by players on the threads. If we could have some sort of compilation of what bugs are actually getting fixed, that would be nice too. I’m probably asking for too much, huh? :smiley:


(Drac0rion) #18

After extensive testing of CMM, I’d actually like to try ranked now, if it was soloq only.

The high skill ceiling of DB already makes the matchmaking near impossible to work, not to mention when there are stacks of premades with smurfs just to boost their main account ranks.
Playing with or against a stacked team is nothing but a waste of time. There’s no test of skill, it’s just a one sided stomp that isn’t fun for anybody.
Yes, matchmaking will still not be perfect and stomps will still occur, but much less frequently as players keep on playing and rounding up their MMR.

The best exaggerated example would be from League of Legends, when Riot decided to remove soloq and merge the entire ranked queue into one. The results were horrible.
While the amount of games where randoms ended up playing vs 5man pro teams was small, it was just a pointless waste of time. All those games the randoms were only waiting for the surrender vote as soon as they saw who they were matched up against.

Teams or PUGs could just use the DBN servers and maybe they could then get more servers if needed.

Bugs I don’t really mind as long as they aren’t gamebreaking. If I can play around them the same way in ranked with FF on as in casual with FF off, it’s fine for me.

What bothers me much more is the game balance. I was away from the game for over a year and yet there were no actual balance changes.

I believe it was up until the Thunder update when we received consecutive updates that included balance changes every patch. I’d like to see more frequent updates from SD with even the smallest balance changes, just to see the meta shift and eventually break the burst rifle meta.
Just look at the state Phantom’s been since his initial nerf. With the current way the game is progressing, I could only see him ever be slightly included in the meta viable if all the next mercs that get released have a strong deployable gadgets that require a hard counter.

The meta is stale and balance is far from what it could be, yet we don’t see SD taking any action in improving the balance unless it’s considered to be in a critical state like Javelin on her release. Overlooking the balance and piling new content on top of it won’t be healthy for the game.

! Thankfully Guardian wasn’t overtuned and didn’t become a top meta pick, but instead SD ended up releasing an underwhelming Rhino-level situational merc.
! While releasing two broken mercs in a row was avoided, can Guardian in her current state really be considered a successful addition?
!
! As of the latest patch, we have a new fire support and a medic that can’t fulfill their designated roles. Will this trend continue with more new releases?


(Press E) #19

@frostyvampire said:
You think Dirty Bomb has too many bugs?
God you clearly never played Rainbow Six before. It has 100 times as many bugs as Dirty Bomb and they are a lot more game breaking than in DB.
And R6 is not in beta AND it has a pro league in it.

So compared to Ubisoft, I think Splash Damage is doing great with their game. I personally like CMM more than the old system, stomps are pretty rare for me now and it feels a lot better to me

I don’t compare DB to other games because I don’t think that helps anything. DB is its own game, SD is its own company. RS6 has a buttload of advertising and fanboys behind it to give it that following. Having less bugs than it shouldn’t mean SD can just ignore theirs.

It’s been the opposite for me sadly. Most matches I either stomp the enemy team, or get stomped, I’ve seen very little “good matches”, even less than public matches mind you. But in CMM’s defense, at least I seem to be winning and losing at about the same rate, so maybe it does work. In a completely unenjoyable way.

@Drac0rion said:
As of the latest patch, we have a new fire support and a medic that can’t fulfill their designated roles. Will this trend continue with more new releases?

My guess is that the people SD didn’t kick out of the PTS server were mostly assault mains, and that Javelin and Guardian were a product of that. Not testing mercs using people who actually play that merc’s class, means we get mercs like javelin, a “firesupport” merc that acts more like an assault merc, and Guardian, a “medic”, who acts like an assault merc.
In fact, Guardian’s ability and the decision to put a cooldown on her revive is so niche and mostly useless, that I’m willing to bet none of the people who tested her regularly play any medics.

But oh well, that’s what happens when you’re so scared of people leaking things that you don’t properly test your updates with a variety of people. I don’t even get why SD wants to be so secretive, whatever.


(bgyoshi) #20

Competitive mode was a disaster. Nothing changed.
Ranked S1 was a disaster. They added queuing for up to 5 players on the same team
Ranked S2 was a disaster. However, people were shown shiny new Ranked Only cases to unlock, so it was temporarily popular. Nothing changed.
Ranked S3 was a disaster. Nothing changed.

Ranked S4 will be a disaster

And Ranked will continue to be an unpopular disaster of a mode until they make real changes to the game. SD has, from the beginning, had a full vision of what they want Ranked to be, and no matter how much they push that vision, it’s always bad. They need to accept that the Ranked they want is just not good. Once they can do that, they will change it, for the better I hope.

At the least, what I’ve seen universal calling for is:

  • Merc limit/1 merc per team (i.e. 1 Proxy, 1 Fletcher, etc)
  • No Thunder
  • No mixing queuers and premades

Nobody can agree on tighter matches with long queues or less balanced matches with short queues so I’m not considering it.

What I think would help the meta a lot; Rolling bans/Changing game rules

Ban mercs or merc types/secondaries during seasons. For example, maybe one season has no medics. Maybe another season is no explosives. It’d be easy enough to make a mode selector so you can do the standard Ranked, or the limited Ranked. Whatever it is, things like EV health during a No Explosives season/month/week would have to be reduced so people can shoot it down, for example. Or maybe there’s a season where all arm/disarm times are doubled. I don’t know, be creative.

That way people can keep being creative about team composition in a changing format. Or maybe they don’t care and just continue playing the standard meta.