Forcing ranked instead of fixing the game first

(Press E) #21

@bgyoshi said:
Competitive mode was a disaster. Nothing changed.
Ranked S1 was a disaster. They added queuing for up to 5 players on the same team
Ranked S2 was a disaster. However, people were shown shiny new Ranked Only cases to unlock, so it was temporarily popular. Nothing changed.
Ranked S3 was a disaster. Nothing changed.

Ranked S4 will be a disaster

And Ranked will continue to be an unpopular disaster of a mode until they make real changes to the game. SD has, from the beginning, had a full vision of what they want Ranked to be, and no matter how much they push that vision, it’s always bad. They need to accept that the Ranked they want is just not good. Once they can do that, they will change it, for the better I hope.

At the least, what I’ve seen universal calling for is:

  • Merc limit/1 merc per team (i.e. 1 Proxy, 1 Fletcher, etc)
  • No Thunder
  • No mixing queuers and premades

Nobody can agree on tighter matches with long queues or less balanced matches with short queues so I’m not considering it.

What I think would help the meta a lot; Rolling bans/Changing game rules

Ban mercs or merc types/secondaries during seasons. For example, maybe one season has no medics. Maybe another season is no explosives. It’d be easy enough to make a mode selector so you can do the standard Ranked, or the limited Ranked. Whatever it is, things like EV health during a No Explosives season/month/week would have to be reduced so people can shoot it down, for example. Or maybe there’s a season where all arm/disarm times are doubled. I don’t know, be creative.

That way people can keep being creative about team composition in a changing format. Or maybe they don’t care and just continue playing the standard meta.

Honestly I’d just like to see personal performance be made a factor in determining your rank, not just wins or losses. At least if that was the case, solo queues would become more practical, and deranking because you happened to get a bad team wouldn’t be anywhere near as frustrating.
Often times no amount of carrying can save a bad team, meaning ranks are mostly just a reflection of your luck with team composition rather than your actual performance.

I believe if your score as a percentage of your team’s total score was weighted as at least half of your total score (combined with the win/loss score), then ranked would become significantly more enjoyable and attract a lot more players.

(GatoCommodore) #22

i think we should make petition to make the upcoming season solo only

after all its just a test. Then if we gain a better traction ask them to make group queue again.

(kittz0r) #23

just stop playing, they can’t continue with declining Players who actually stay with the Game.

(Homu1124) #24

@STARRYSOCK said:

Honestly I’d just like to see personal performance be made a factor in determining your rank, not just wins or losses. At least if that was the case, solo queues would become more practical, and deranking because you happened to get a bad team wouldn’t be anywhere near as frustrating.
Often times no amount of carrying can save a bad team, meaning ranks are mostly just a reflection of your luck with team composition rather than your actual performance.

I believe if your score as a percentage of your team’s total score was weighted as at least half of your total score (combined with the win/loss score), then ranked would become significantly more enjoyable and attract a lot more players.

Kek. I support this sensible mechanic. Would be cool to maybe give the 10, 30, and 50 ranked points (Lose, tie, win) + how many points you earn in the match x0.001. I doubt they’d do it though since they want to sell you stupid boosters that give even less than I suggest here.

(Press E) #25

@kittz0r said:
just stop playing, they can’t continue with declining Players who actually stay with the Game.

I stopped playing towards the end of last season after I got a couple of cards, and I’ll likely stop playing after I finish my placements next season just to get one. I’m a collector, what can I say, and I know I’m not the only one.
But with how dead ranked was towards the end of last season and even season 2, I don’t understand why some major changes haven’t already been made. There have been countless threads on how to improve things, but even while completely ignoring them, the numbers should be obvious. But well, apparently they’re not obvious enough to SD.

Most people play ranked not because they want to play ranked, but because they want its rewards. This is supposed to be a game, not a job. I just don’t understand why SD insists on bribing people to play, rather than make ranked more enjoyable and less frustrating.

#26

100% in favor of your rank progression being determined by personal performance in a solo queue, but I’d like to see that limited to only solo. If a full team queues together, I think their rank should be determined solely by their wins and losses or have a more technical system that accounts for match time, the opposing team’s ranks, and total score. I don’t think it’d be ideal if a full group had their 2 best players progressing faster than their 2 worst. Why? Because this makes it even harder to find balanced matches if half of your team is composed of high silvers and the rest are cobalts. A team is a team and they’ve signed up for it together. All or nothing. I think this would also put a larger emphasis on good teamwork and merc composition. Maybe they should consider adding separate ranks for both group and solo?

(Press E) #27

@Wintergreen said:
100% in favor of your rank progression being determined by personal performance in a solo queue, but I’d like to see that limited to only solo. If a full team queues together, I think their rank should be determined solely by their wins and losses or have a more technical system that accounts for match time, the opposing team’s ranks, and total score. I don’t think it’d be ideal if a full group had their 2 best players progressing faster than their 2 worst. Why? Because this makes it even harder to find balanced matches if half of your team is composed of high silvers and the rest are cobalts. A team is a team and they’ve signed up for it together. All or nothing. I think this would also put a larger emphasis on good teamwork and merc composition. Maybe they should consider adding separate ranks for both group and solo?

This only works if everyone who queues up together does so with the same people each time, and most people don’t play ranked like that.

Personally, I’m against premades anyways, and I think they’re a major source of the problems we see in ranked currently. Overpowered teams, underpowered teams, they’re extremely hard to sort out. I think the best course of action would be to actually shuffle premade players across both teams. Sure it’s great to play with friends, but playing together causes so many problems that it just isn’t worth it. Hell, even a premade of 2 can be bad, let alone 5. You can still play and have fun with your friends on opposite teams anyways. If anyone dislikes playing against their friend, then they don’t really sound like a friend to me.

If this was the case, then team based tournaments would get a greater focus, as people who want to play in a premade would be forced to face other premades, rather than stomp a bunch of solo queued people. And people who just wanted to play with friends and have a good game could play ranked as normal.

#28

@STARRYSOCK said:

@Wintergreen said:
100% in favor of your rank progression being determined by personal performance in a solo queue, but I’d like to see that limited to only solo. If a full team queues together, I think their rank should be determined solely by their wins and losses or have a more technical system that accounts for match time, the opposing team’s ranks, and total score. I don’t think it’d be ideal if a full group had their 2 best players progressing faster than their 2 worst. Why? Because this makes it even harder to find balanced matches if half of your team is composed of high silvers and the rest are cobalts. A team is a team and they’ve signed up for it together. All or nothing. I think this would also put a larger emphasis on good teamwork and merc composition. Maybe they should consider adding separate ranks for both group and solo?

This only works if everyone who queues up together does so with the same people each time, and most people don’t play ranked like that.

Personally, I’m against premades anyways, and I think they’re a major source of the problems we see in ranked currently. Overpowered teams, underpowered teams, they’re extremely hard to sort out. I think the best course of action would be to actually shuffle premade players across both teams. Sure it’s great to play with friends, but playing together causes so many problems that it just isn’t worth it. Hell, even a premade of 2 can be bad, let alone 5. You can still play and have fun with your friends on opposite teams anyways. If anyone dislikes playing against their friend, then they don’t really sound like a friend to me.

If this was the case, then team based tournaments would get a greater focus, as people who want to play in a premade would be forced to face other premades, rather than stomp a bunch of solo queued people. And people who just wanted to play with friends and have a good game could play ranked as normal.

I mean with any team in general, regardless of who is in it. I just feel that ranking based on individual performance should be limited to only solo queues with a separate rank for team play. Meaning one could attain a cobalt in solo based on their own performance and a high gold in team play. I might be overthinking this because it’s late though. Beyond that I mostly agree with you. There are a lot of ways they could improve it.

(AlbinMatt) #29

@GatoCommodore said:
i think we should make petition to make the upcoming season solo only

A petition? Oh no, we don’t run by democracy here, and solo just won’t cut it for those tribal warlords.

Seriously, I wouldn’t mind if they pushed back Ranked s4 for a month or so. Hell, why not make the Ranked Season coincide with Christmas Advent? That should give them the chance to make Dickenson skins for one event.

(Chris Mullins) #30

We’re continuing to add new features and try out different things for each Ranked. Granted many of them may not seem like much on the surface, but many of them are actually quite complicated and take a good amount of time to implement and test.

Doing more drastic things like one Merc selection etc. would take even more time and there is always the possibility for things like this to be tested in the future. For now though, we;re still trying to get the core experience nailed down so we don’t get too ahead of ourselves.

(bushyg) #31

@stayfreshshoe said:
We’re continuing to add new features and try out different things for each Ranked. Granted many of them may not seem like much on the surface, but many of them are actually quite complicated and take a good amount of time to implement and test.

Doing more drastic things like one Merc selection etc. would take even more time and there is always the possibility for things like this to be tested in the future. For now though, we;re still trying to get the core experience nailed down so we don’t get too ahead of ourselves.

So 5 stack parties with multiple Thunders and Auras versus solo queue teams consisting of 4-5 Proxys and then you wonder why player retention is a problem and wonder why people say ranked sucks? The core experience isn’t good when it’s based around a flawed system. What is it that you’re trying to nail? Why can’t SD convey it properly? When the details are apparently nothing to worry about, we’re still basically left knowing nothing.

Besides different skins, what exactly has been added or changed? The CMM intro page into a match to show off trinkets and silly scoreboard MVP awards at the end of a match?

(kittz0r) #32

@stayfreshshoe said:
We’re continuing to add new features and try out different things for each Ranked. Granted many of them may not seem like much on the surface, but many of them are actually quite complicated and take a good amount of time to implement and test.

Doing more drastic things like one Merc selection etc. would take even more time and there is always the possibility for things like this to be tested in the future. For now though, we;re still trying to get the core experience nailed down so we don’t get too ahead of ourselves.

3 years… and counting. what experience you mean? everybody leaving because Ranked is broken and YOU GUYS won’t listen?

(Press E) #33

@stayfreshshoe said:
We’re continuing to add new features and try out different things for each Ranked. Granted many of them may not seem like much on the surface, but many of them are actually quite complicated and take a good amount of time to implement and test.

Doing more drastic things like one Merc selection etc. would take even more time and there is always the possibility for things like this to be tested in the future. For now though, we;re still trying to get the core experience nailed down so we don’t get too ahead of ourselves.

Thank you shoe! I’m glad to have an official response. I understand wanting to take time with things, but I’m happy to know you guys have plans for potentially improving ranked further.

(GatoCommodore) #34

@kittz0r said:

@stayfreshshoe said:
We’re continuing to add new features and try out different things for each Ranked. Granted many of them may not seem like much on the surface, but many of them are actually quite complicated and take a good amount of time to implement and test.

Doing more drastic things like one Merc selection etc. would take even more time and there is always the possibility for things like this to be tested in the future. For now though, we;re still trying to get the core experience nailed down so we don’t get too ahead of ourselves.

3 years… and counting. what experience you mean? everybody leaving because Ranked is broken and YOU GUYS won’t listen?

being outraged for the sake of being outraged…

jeebus on a crutch.
You code the game then, im just playing for free here and we have unlimited time to spare for development.

the fact that he came here probably hes trying to listen.

(kittz0r) #35

@GatoCommodore said:

@kittz0r said:

@stayfreshshoe said:
We’re continuing to add new features and try out different things for each Ranked. Granted many of them may not seem like much on the surface, but many of them are actually quite complicated and take a good amount of time to implement and test.

Doing more drastic things like one Merc selection etc. would take even more time and there is always the possibility for things like this to be tested in the future. For now though, we;re still trying to get the core experience nailed down so we don’t get too ahead of ourselves.

3 years… and counting. what experience you mean? everybody leaving because Ranked is broken and YOU GUYS won’t listen?

being outraged for the sake of being outraged…

jeebus on a crutch.
You code the game then, im just playing for free here and we have unlimited time to spare for development.

the fact that he came here probably hes trying to listen.

Its the same Crap we here since 3 Years and will hear for the next 3 Years, remember when DB was advertised as highly competitive?

Maybe get your ass out of SD Ass from time to time…

(Chris Mullins) #36

@kittz0r said:
3 years… and counting. what experience you mean? everybody leaving because Ranked is broken and YOU GUYS won’t listen?

We’ve had Ranked in the game for three years? I must of missed the first few seasons…

(Melinder) #37

10/10 quality responses from shoe. Can’t say i’m surprised.

(Chris Mullins) #38

@Melinder I’m happy to have conversations where the information being discussed is accurate. Making stuff up or using overkill on statements just to try and make your point more valid is something I’m not willing to entertain, let alone then take the time to create a well written and balanced response. More than likely it would be met with more of the same.

(bgyoshi) #39

@stayfreshshoe said:
We’re continuing to add new features and try out different things for each Ranked. Granted many of them may not seem like much on the surface, but many of them are actually quite complicated and take a good amount of time to implement and test.

Doing more drastic things like one Merc selection etc. would take even more time and there is always the possibility for things like this to be tested in the future. For now though, we;re still trying to get the core experience nailed down so we don’t get too ahead of ourselves.

I feel like the core experience of Ranked is as nailed down as it’s going to get, at least on a surface level. It’s 5v5, smaller teams than pubs, more team coordination required. You queue with friends, join a party match queue, get in game, get some frags and caps and get swag for playing. People have come to expect this and that’s what they get.

People are ready for the finer details. We’re looking for those tough changes now, looking for the merc limits, the balance tuning for 5v5, the solo skill tracking.

Is there some pressing importance of having Ranked seasons right now? I don’t think the community would deal a blow to SD if you decided to open up “Ranked” matchmaking again to work on changes. That is, make Ranked an open mode where you still earn 1.5x credits, a generic Rank trinket, climb the ladder to SIlver/Gold/Cobalt and such, but doesn’t have the seasonal things like season-specific skins/trinkets, a start and end date… It’d just be something for people to keep playing 5v5 FF On Collision On while you guys work on implementing the hard stuff. You could even use it as an opportunity to trinkle updates into Ranked to test the things you work on, and when you feel you have that settled, blast out a new season filled with new stuff and incentives to play.

(Xenithos) #40

StayfreshShoe just went S A V A G E

Melinder deserved it though. Anyway, Ranked is being pushed because it’s part of what most of the community lives on and wants. And every ranked season I’ve seen has had numerous positive improvements in between seasons. As for bugs, they consistently fix them from what I’ve seen, just some are more elusive than others. The last thing I want is for another summer squash though, I’d much prefer a balance bonanza or something. Finding people to play with, and have fun with in ranked settings makes this game absolutely shine.