For Raz and Shoe

(SteelMailbox) #1

I watched the video fully and I must say, Cliff is 100% right on every point he says IMO.
Honestly I can’t say anything that he hasn’t mentioned as he covered it all and I just post this here for Nexon and SD to see

@RazielWarmonic @stayfreshshoe

(TheStrangerous) #2

This guy is spot on with some of my worries, which have been buggin’ me lately. Especially with the lack of this game’s notoriety and slow development progress.

They really need more employees and resources to step it up.

(MilkyBear) #3

@ThunderPro i wanna hear your opinion.

(FireWorks) #4

To be fair, when they stated what you quoted them early in the video, they were correct: Even after the OW release, DB gained constantly more players in the last couple months. This peaked in figures of 6k “players simultaneously” and over 230k “different players during the last 2 weeks”
Source:https://steamdb.info/app/333930/graphs/
(which is widely regarded as more accurate than steamcharts)

However, since that date the number are strongly decreasing to around 3k5 peak and 200k/2w.

In general: If you quote an internet source, do it with a timestamp. The time context needs to be clear.

Sorry I didnt bother checking further into the video from there on.

(watsyurdeal) #5

Well, let’s be really honest here.

The devs are trying to give the community what they want, and what have we been hearing for the last month? Matches are unbalanced, doing a quick search and you’ll see the same thing pop up over and over for MONTHS.

And since there are no community servers, and nobody wants to play Ranked Matchmaking, at this point they have to force it so people can have fun and fair games, and I predict that STILL things will not change.

So we have a dev team with a laundry list of things to work on, and a community of players who really do not understand the game nearly as much as they think they do, upset and complaining for better games. What else can SD do but provide for the little audience they still have? The community blames the devs when really they should be blaming themselves, if you want balanced games that’s something you as players need to solve on your own. And as for the devs, they need to look at what players want from the top. Assuming player skill is equal and at the highest possible level, you need to look at what features they want, what things should be changed to make games better.

This is not a complex problem, it’s just a matter of priorities, and imo, their priorities aren’t straight. I don’t know about you guys, but I much rather have map redesigns, maybe slight decreases to the game’s TTK (maybe 50 ms or so slower) in exchange for more consistent accuracy and speed, a better in depth tutorial to educate players, maybe a server browser with real community servers, hell maybe make the game a pay to play title, for 20 bucks. Whatever gets the game to a point where we have a strong foundation for a competitive play, while keeping the game’s core fun and exciting gameplay elements in place.

(TheStrangerous) #6

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;190451”]Well, let’s be really honest here.

The devs are trying to give the community what they want, and what have we been hearing for the last month? Matches are unbalanced, doing a quick search and you’ll see the same thing pop up over and over for MONTHS.

And since there are no community servers, and nobody wants to play Ranked Matchmaking, at this point they have to force it so people can have fun and fair games, and I predict that STILL things will not change.

So we have a dev team with a laundry list of things to work on, and a community of players who really do not understand the game nearly as much as they think they do, upset and complaining for better games. What else can SD do but provide for the little audience they still have? The community blames the devs when really they should be blaming themselves, if you want balanced games that’s something you as players need to solve on your own. And as for the devs, they need to look at what players want from the top. Assuming player skill is equal and at the highest possible level, you need to look at what features they want, what things should be changed to make games better.

This is not a complex problem, it’s just a matter of priorities, and imo, their priorities aren’t straight. I don’t know about you guys, but I much rather have map redesigns, maybe slight decreases to the game’s TTK (maybe 50 ms or so slower) in exchange for more consistent accuracy and speed, a better in depth tutorial to educate players, maybe a server browser with real community servers, hell maybe make the game a pay to play title, for 20 bucks. Whatever gets the game to a point where we have a strong foundation for a competitive play, while keeping the game’s core fun and exciting gameplay elements in place.[/quote]

+1

#SupportDBCommunityServers

Community servers sure would come in handy right now, that + mods.

(blonk) #7

I don’t agree with the comment about the character design - they got positive press on a major news website, why shouldn’t they shout about that? They never made a big deal about it before or after so that seems like a really pointless thing to comment on.

Trying to shoot holes in the things Raz and shoe are saying seems a little petty as well, even if there’s a good deal of interesting stuff he mentions. They are here to drive the community and keep us keen and energized, even if the accusations he makes were true they can hardly go on a stream talking about negative growth and all that. The honesty we get from them is admirable when you think about the PR teams some F2P games have.

(arcaneCanvas) #8

i like this game but this beta testing and lack of content (ofcourse because its beta) has taken toll on my interest.

most of my friends from 6 month ago who played alongside me has moved on to other games. me? i spend 100 bucks on this game (i didnt say i regret it).

well, until the next new “content” update, 4 players including me is going to move back to warthunder for the time being.

@Watsyurdeal is rite tho, [quote=“Watsyurdeal;190451”]Well, let’s be really honest here.

So we have a dev team with a laundry list of things to work on, and a community of players who really do not understand the game nearly as much as they think they do, upset and complaining for better games. What else can SD do but provide for the little audience they still have? The community blames the devs when really they should be blaming themselves, if you want balanced games that’s something you as players need to solve on your own. [/quote]

(Press E) #9

Really the biggest thing here that needs to be done is the content roadmap. It’s annoying how many developers don’t do this.

(FireWorks) #10

because its not working and gets redone over and over. i was screaming for this but i havent seen one being even remotely accurate.
the reality screws these plans faster than you can react.

(KUST__LunarTM) #11

Finally some real talk.

I’m kind of taking a break from DB myself as it stands, but I’m still looking back to see how things are changing. How I see it, the events are nice and all, but it would be much better if time was spent making the game run more efficiently with balances, parties, and matchmaking. If the game itself isn’t attractive to players, no amount of events is going to make up for that. Now that they do have the design for future events ready from the ReV event, they can use this time to focus on the game itself instead of event planning.

(Jostabeere) #12

For me it just seems that SD, a company with a shitton of experience just locked-up its experience in a closet. Or Nexon locked SD’s creativity and experience in their closet and dictates what SD has to do. I don’t know which case is true. SD had dgames on the market already. Some successful, some not so much, but a company like SD shouldn’t need months to patch bugs.
And the other part I want to speak about. I am fully aware some people will disagree with it, but I still hope they read it and try to think about what I say.
I might be oldschool and cranky here, but I dislike the work of our Community manager here.
@stayfreshshoe isn’t that bad because this forum isn’t his playground, and he is doing pretty nice work over at WarChest.
But in my opinion, a community manager should do more for the community. It’s his job. His job is managing and communicating with the community. And it’s my opinion, but I feel the communication part is pretty bad. There were quite many simply wrong informations posted to inform the players, like “the fixed ReV obsidian” or the “Case a May day timers” the infamous “boosters working as intended” dilemma.

(Press E) #13

because its not working and gets redone over and over. i was screaming for this but i havent seen one being even remotely accurate.
the reality screws these plans faster than you can react.[/quote]

Having a vague idea of what the devs want to do is better than nothing, even if they do change it. That’s what I mean.

(B_Montiel) #14

Well honestly, I still think that, except of the release of textured Dome, the game has been pretty much on stall since it has been on steam. Keep in mind, except minor ability tweaks/remold, every playable merc we currently have were already 90% the same in the alpha… Which started in 2013…

I still believe that the economic system and the “casual tools” they’ve released when coming on steam, whatever they say “not the same person working on different aspects of the game”, consume way too much of their time. When we talk about mm in general, economic model, those are not straight forward subjects, they need extreme amount of time in thinking AND developing. I still don’t understand why dirty bomb did not follow a marketing route like some of same scale did in the recent past. Chivalry for example. They did not went the ambitious route for casual players. But those did come there, because the basis was good. And they generally don’t need some complicated system to join a server if they know where to go. I like to recall that creating fancy events won’t keep them. That’s not an appeal for regular players if the hidden part of the cake is not at their taste.

From the steam release to today (over a year now), they gathered all the mercs back, put a new map on the game mode tailored for this game, a new game mode with 2 maps that has honestly poor interest here. In the meantime, every bugfix came with new ones, balance got worse than it was.

And… For the love of god, give us the opportunity to rent servers. I still don’t know why publisher/developer remained deaf for almost 3 years. That was already a request made by alpha players and founders back… In november 2013 when I first played. Don’t lose time on that. I know it’s planned, but I probably won’t wait another year.

(Mister__Wiggles) #15

[quote=“Jostabeere;190474”]For me it just seems that SD, a company with a shitton of experience just locked-up its experience in a closet. Or Nexon locked SD’s creativity and experience in their closet and dictates what SD has to do. I don’t know which case is true. SD had dgames on the market already. Some successful, some not so much, but a company like SD shouldn’t need months to patch bugs.
And the other part I want to speak about. I am fully aware some people will disagree with it, but I still hope they read it and try to think about what I say.
I might be oldschool and cranky here, but I dislike the work of our Community manager here.
@stayfreshshoe isn’t that bad because this forum isn’t his playground, and he is doing pretty nice work over at WarChest.
But in my opinion, a community manager should do more for the community. It’s his job. His job is managing and communicating with the community. And it’s my opinion, but I feel the communication part is pretty bad. There were quite many simply wrong informations posted to inform the players, like “the fixed ReV obsidian” or the “Case a May day timers” the infamous “boosters working as intended” dilemma. [/quote]

I have a feeling that Nexon are clamping the development tbh, SD wont admit it if that was even the case but going on the what they achieved in the first few months to what they have managed to do in the last few shows that content production as almost hit a stand still. And the thing with Shoe too, whether hes being forced to say some of the stuff he says, like the last test on the casusal matchmaking where he said they gathered the data that they wanted or whatever when the test build was canceled almost as soon as it went live, with buckets of people saying they couldnt get in. We need clarity and we need it fast because I fear with nexons new play thing (Lawbreakers) coming soon and the interest in DB shrinking by the day, there might not be a game to come back to in a few months. My opinion though, feel free to disagree.

(neverplayseriou) #16

3 days from now and ranked will have been down for a month in what is supposedly a competitive shooter, only place to progress skill wise is ranked so there is little use for me to even continue playing atm, numbers keep on growing yet I see more and more veterans and streamers leaving the game or people that continue playing Dirty Bomb ONLY because it’s one of a kind, there’s no other fps like it, if there were those players would be long gone.

Pubs, non level restricted and level restricted both are filled with people that have such little skill but manage to get kills by bunny hopping around like idiots with a burst rifle or a shotgun which has been an issue for months, the community might not have taken the quite fast and harsh Phantom nerf positively but there’s no need to wait months before balancing out mercs and weapons Sparks/redeye/pdp all were broken for such a long time before sd finally started trying to fix them.

Soon I’ll be playing db for almost a year and I can count the amount of ACTUAL content on less than 10 fingers (execution, market, overground, dome, aimee, stoker, thunder and maybe 1 more merc, not to sure).

That was my nice little personal rant, back to minecraft and tf2 o/

Loved the vid btw.

(arcaneCanvas) #17

buhbye maybe we meet again in DB sometime next year…

(RazielWarmonic) #18

[quote=“Mister__Wiggles;190484”]
I have a feeling that Nexon are clamping the development tbh, SD wont admit it if that was even the case but going on the what they achieved in the first few months to what they have managed to do in the last few shows that content production as almost hit a stand still. [/quote]
Absolutely not.
We give Splash Damage extra resources (such as QA testing), producers for ideas, and a whole team dedicated to events. We try not to propose anything that is going to impact development time from actual features, such as casual matchmaking. Why wouldn’t want the game to be awesome and successful? We are just as in it as they are. We are collaborators, not dictators. :wink: We run everything by them first as well to make sure we both agree.

Shoe actually wrote that messaging himself, and posted it. Everything that he wrote in it was true. We gathered enough data to try and fix the issues that were present in today’s test. How is this off putting messaging?

We are completely different teams that work on Lawbreakers and Dirty Bomb, just like the Dirty Bomb and Ghost in the Shell: First Assault Stand Alone Complex (phew I need to take a breath now) teams are different. So any project that Nexon is working on besides Dirty Bomb will not impact Dirty Bomb.

We do collaborate together for ideas, but we all respect each other and help each other out, and don’t overpower each other at all. We try our best not to step on each other’s toes. :wink:

Now I know a lot of people are going to ask about Cliff’s points in the video. I am not commenting on that at this moment due to several reasons, but will in the future. :smile: EDIT: This sounds really bad, but it’s not. I promise, lol!

I hope this clears some things up!

(K1X455) #19

I’m subbed to CT’s YT channel for his coverage of DB gameplay, and I got to give him credit where it’s due, but disagree with half of his opinion in the video. I do understand it’s his opinion, however after 1 minute of disclaimer, I think he’d better re-think what he has to say because shouldn’t absolve him from bad opinions. Still, all things considered, his opinions sound rather neutral negative and conflicting.

I got negative feelings about DB’s updates and break cycle too but I look deeper into it and learn a few details that in my belief, could help devs in the next update (hopefully not a breaking one). On the flipside of all this negativity, is positive things which should receive due attention if not praise for SD’s work. After all, you can choose to be salty and SOUR about it or you can play the game, keep playing the game or playing the game and then promote the game’s strength against OW <- OMG, dat game. It’ll give me diabetes for booty eye candy… and that’s it??? I could have watched something else. Check out Honest Trailer’s review on OW.

I’ll keep tabs on this thread and put up a much detailed post including an ELO system that can possibly help in match making.

Edit: After repeated view of the video, I officially change my view of it from neutral to disagree, with some considerations towards transparency.

(Dysfnal) #20

I haven’t played DB for weeks, to be entirely honest, I’ll come back when I can play phantom right again. He may be a small bit better than before, but I don’t find him as fun to play. I also have recently purchased overwatch, and play that more frequently. I will come back in due time