For a game with so many options, there are surprisingly few choices


(Morchaint) #1

First, I really enjoy Brink. An objective based FPS is a welcome change from the monotony of endless Team Deathmatches. And aside from a few areas of imbalance, I think the maps are great and I greatly enjoy the various stages to each. I really want Brink to have a long and healthy life.

However, after leveling two characters to 20, I am shocked at how few real choices there are in the game. Especially for one that has so many options.

In fact, there is only one real choice and that is class (and for the majority of players the only real choice here is between medic or engineer).

Body type? Light. There are no disadvantages. With its ability to strafe, the light body type is easily the most survivable, The few hitpoints lost are meaningless. Add to that the ability to return to the battlefield more quickly, take all routes on the map and respond to the changing situations of the game more rapidly and there is no reason to play any other body type.

Weapons? Carb-9 and Sea Eagle pistol. Yes really good players can get away with some other combos, but for the majority of players these weapons answer everything. With the amazing accuracy and range of the pistol, it is as good as carrying a sniper rifle, so you are never out-ranged. And the Carb-9 is as good as, and probably better than, any of the heaver weapons.

Loadouts? Carb-9 with a muzzle break, laser or iron sight, front grip and high capacity or drum magazine. Put a Greeneye Scope on the Sea Eagle and you are set to go.

The problem here is that there are no disadvantages. The negative effects the loadouts have are so minor, that they are almost meaningless. The hugest effect is to equip speed, but since a light only ever goes from the SMG to the pistol during a firefight (and rarely if ever from the pistol to the carb), it really doesn’t matter how long it takes for the SMG to equip.

Because heavies are so slow to return to the fight, they spend a ton more down time not doing anything to help the objectives or damage the enemy. And since they cannot strafe at all, with the ease of headshots and the accuracy and range of the SMG/pistols, heavies right now are a deathtrap. And since assault rifles have no real advantage over SMGs, mediums end up being a mostly worthless option as well.

Because of this, there are just no hard choices in the game. No weighing of advantages and disadvantages. With the SMG/pistol the light body type excels at every situation except for the most extreme of sniper ranges. And those ranges are exceedingly rare in Brink.

To keep things fresh and feel like there are options and new challenges to overcome, there needs to be harder choices. The different body types and weapons needs to present real advantages and disadvantages so that everything has its place and each of the body types have their area of excellence, rather than one loadout being the best at nearly everything.

I have some personal suggestions to add these harder choices to the game. However, keep in mind, I am not a light/SMG hater. I have leveled two characters to 20 using light/SMGs most of the time. And I am regularly on the leaderboard as best in class, most kills and/or best overall.

But the game starts to grow stale and old when there is only one answer to everything. Here are my suggestions to make real advantages and disadvantages to the body types and weapon loadouts:

RANGE: The SMG and Pistol need to have their effective ranges reduced. Especially the pistol. Talented players in a light body types should dominate short ranges and be able to compete at medium range. Beyond that they should feel challenged. Right now, what is considered “long” and “extreme” ranges are so far, that they are meaningless 99% of the time. If ranges were made more meaningful assault rifles would take on a more meaningful role, giving medium and heavy body types a better reason to exist.

SURVIVABILITY: With the strafing of the light body type, the accuracy and range of the SMG/pistol and the extreme easiness of headshots, the light body type is infinitely more survivable than the others simply due to its ability to strafe. The alterations to range would help this some. There are other changes that would help as well. Make headshots more difficult, at least with a spamming SMG. Give medium and heavy body types more hitpoints. And the heavy weapons for the heavy body type should do more damage.

REAL DISADVANTAGES TO LOADOUTS: Choosing to equip something like the high capacity or drum magazine, needs to more negatively impact areas like range, stability and accuracy. Effecting equip time on the SMG has no real downside. 99% of the time the light starts with its SMG equipped and switches to its pistol. It rarely, if ever, switches back to its SMG until after its survived the fight. Really these equip time penalties on SMGs are much more devastating to mediums and heavies who are more likely to be switching to an SMG during a firefight.

So these are just my two-cents. Again, they come from someone who loves the game and wants to see it continue and grow. With real options, meaningful advantages/disadvantages and hard choices, the game can stay fresh and present real tactical challenges for a player and a team.

But with one loadout and one body type being the most effective answer to every part of the game, things start to grow stale.

Good luck Splash Damage! I wish you and Brink well!


(wolfnemesis75) #2

Man this thread is vaguely similar like dejavu. There are four choices of class. Everyone plays differently! I don’t use a Carb-9. News flash: Not everyone does. Many of your gripes are your perception, not reality.


(ataliba) #3

agreed with all… but I also think that the heavys should have a stability boost, as they have more muscles to hold weaponry… this would also make the light body type more unstable yet maintainig the accuracy.


(Oschino1907) #4

Exactly Wolfy!

You need to see the world through the eyes of others before making such bold statements. Please just refer to the 2nd comment in my Signature…


(ataliba) #5

actually… i don’t really mind… just playing this game waiting for bf3 release… lost all my hopes with seeing this game get fixed…
the community likes it broken…


(tokamak) #6

They allowed to many choices for too few options rather.


(wolfnemesis75) #7

[QUOTE=Oschino1907;338256]Exactly Wolfy!

You need to see the world through the eyes of others before making such bold statements. Please just refer to the 2nd comment in my Signature…[/QUOTE]

I play with other guys and they all have their own styles and weapon choices. I often will ask them what I should choose because there are so many choices. Like right now I have a 20 level Soldier Engineer and I can get Rank 5 Satchel Charge or a Gatling Turret. His response:“Thats a tough choice, not sure which way to go.” And then we discussed.

Pretty much the guys I play with are hardcore for FPS and Team Games and modes. None of them use the exact same combination of abilities, class, weapons, and body types as I do! The Carb-9 is just one of many guns. Although Heavy may have drawbacks, MANY people I play with will ONLY use a Heavy. Right there: Preferred playstyle.

Play what you want. Don’t try to change the game just because you may think there is a “Me Too” player out there using Carb-9 like everybody else. This game has a lot depth beyond One Gun or One Way.


(jazevec) #8

The OP has a point: more options only matters if they’re all viable. A game with no-brainers is like putting too many layers of paint on a painting - it won’t make it better, new layer/best choice will totally obscure the rest.

Maybe all the superflous weapons are similar by design ? Maybe they’re just meant for flavor, as an extra appeareance customization ?


(nephandys) #9

I guess all in all I just don’t agree with the OP. It appears he has found a playstyle that he likes for himself and has apparently decided this is therefore the “best” playstyle. I simply don’t agree. I have 2 level 20’s myself (I know there’s others out there with many more) and I certainly don’t consider there to be 1 body type, 2 weapons, and 2 class choices. Operatives and soldiers both make excellent choices albeit with very different playstyles from the engi and medic. Personal taste wise I like the medium body a lot more than the light as I like having access to AR’s in particular. I also don’t run Carb-9 at all. I prefer the Kross hands down.

I switch weapons a lot between AR and SMG as range changes. Therefore, loadouts probably affect me a bit more than you. However, I do agree there could be some more penalties/tradeoffs to make the chosen options more varied and to allow more difficult choices.

The more options the better. However, I don’t believe the options are as limited as you’ve made them out to be.

TL;DR most of these choices are dependant on playstyle. While every combination is not necessarily suitable placed into the hands of a brand new player, they are all viable when matched with the appropriate playstyle/player. This is not to say there are no improvements to be made (heavies could certainly use some tweaking).


(Glyph) #10

The OP provides many valid arguments as to why Brink is not currently balanced. You can dismiss their claims however you want but that does not mean that the game is not dominated by those same issues. Hopefully SD balances Brink with the first DLC and upcoming patch but on the 360 all of the issues mentioned are indeed true.

I enjoy Brink but the Light with a CARB-9/Sea Eagle combo is among the most broken currently, at least on the 360.

EDIT: And don’t use the number of level 20 characters to try and validate your claims, it proves nothing. I am on my 8th character as the previous seven are all capped so if your second or third level 20 character proves anything, it only proves that my opinion is 2-3 times as valid as your own. Again, don’t bring your characters into this debate, it proves nothing.


(SockDog) #11

And IMO the problem stems from catering to an audience who places value in clocking up XP and unlocking pointless crap. It over complicated an already intricate system of balances in the gameplay and ultimately ends up breaking the game or being a generally bland range of rewards.

Sometimes less is more.


(Je T´aime) #12

I agree with the Op, light strafe speed in a direct 1 vs 1 strafing really fast left right makes you loose combats in a direct combat even with a heavy loadup and same gun, strafe speed should be the same to all classes. And Ar´s kinda sux they should be efective in close distances as the smgs but with more range. So ye the only reason to use medium is the newbtube attachment and heavy imo none.


(wolfnemesis75) #13

[QUOTE=Glyph;338287]The OP provides many valid arguments as to why Brink is not currently balanced. You can dismiss their claims however you want but that does not mean that the game is not dominated by those same issues. Hopefully SD balances Brink with the first DLC and upcoming patch but on the 360 all of the issues mentioned are indeed true.

I enjoy Brink but the Light with a CARB-9/Sea Eagle combo is among the most broken currently, at least on the 360.

EDIT: And don’t use the number of level 20 characters to try and validate your claims, it proves nothing. I am on my 8th character as the previous seven are all capped so if your second or third level 20 character proves anything, it only proves that my opinion is 2-3 times as valid as your own. Again, don’t bring your characters into this debate, it proves nothing.[/QUOTE]

I feel the opposite as you. There are two sides to every coin. I see far more depth and options than the Op sees, that’s for sure. Just because you see something as broken, doesn’t mean it is, just in your perspective it is. There are definitely “Me Too” players using those weapons, but most I play with, prefer to find their own style. I feel the Kross and Belgo is an excellent combo. So why is the Carb9 and Sea Eagle broken? Not everyone feels the same about aspects of the game.


(tokamak) #14

And even that group is dissatisfied because the xp stops counting.


(Glyph) #15

I don’e believe that anyone is arguing that you can’t play the way you want, only that the CARB-9/Sea Eagle combo is the most overpowered. I know that when playing Competition the game is dominated by these players and even though a few of us try to shake things up with other weapons, if we really need to step up, we always pull out our CARB-9s to gain the advantage again.

Saying that you play differently does not prove that you do so more effectively. This is where the entire argument exists as even the last 5v5 tournament was dominated by Light body types using a CARB-9. IIRC, there was a single player in the finals using a Kross, just one. If the Kross was indeed as good as you stated would 9 of the 10 players in the finals of a tournament disagree with your claim?

In the end, you may disagree with the opinions of others based upon your experience but myself and others have seen evidence to the contrary. Even if you are saying that the CARB-9 is not the best then you are not arguing that a single weapon is the best, only that there are other options. This still means that the vast majority of players are arguing about the strength of the CARB-9 as the dominant weapon in Brink. You are only arguing that ‘other’ weapons are better, which is not specific enough to warrant proving that the CARB-9 is not the most dominant.


(Morchaint) #16

There is a difference between playing style and balance. The problem is that no matter your or my play style, light body type with SMG/Pistol is almost always the best answer.

Do I want to attack an objective or defend? Long range snipe? Medium range support? Or mix it up at close range? Do I want to be a medic, operative, soldier or engineer? Do I want to kill or buff?

No matter the question, light body type with SMG/pistol is almost always the most effective answer.

I am all for different play styles. I love sitting back and defending as much as I enjoy running-and-gunning. The point is, no matter what play style I choose to follow the light body SMG/Pistol combo is always the best choice.

And since this is the most effective choice, no matter the style I feel like playing at the moment, the game starts to get stale.

Those games that have the longest and healthiest life are always the ones where you are making hard choices. Where, depending on your play style, you have to make trade-offs to be the most effective at the area of the game in which you want to support your team the most.

99% of the time this is unfortunately not the case right not with Brink. Close range against a heavy, medium range against a medium with an AR, long range against a sniper, attacking, defending, supporting, buffing, the light body SMG/pistol has the most effective answer for it all with no real downside.

So, like I said in the original post, with all the options in Brink, right now your only real choice is what class to do you want to be?


(nephandys) #17

[QUOTE=Morchaint;338317]There is a difference between playing style and balance. The problem is that no matter your or my play style, light body type with SMG/Pistol is almost always the best answer.

Do I want to attack an objective or defend? Long range snipe? Medium range support? Or mix it up at close range? Do I want to be a medic, operative, soldier or engineer? Do I want to kill or buff?

No matter the question, light body type with SMG/pistol is almost always the most effective answer.

I am all for different play styles. I love sitting back and defending as much as I enjoy running-and-gunning. The point is, no matter what play style I choose to follow the light body SMG/Pistol combo is always the best choice.

And since this is the most effective choice, no matter the style I feel like playing at the moment, the game starts to get stale.

Those games that have the longest and healthiest life are always the ones where you are making hard choices. Where, depending on your play style, you have to make trade-offs to be the most effective at the area of the game in which you want to support your team the most.

99% of the time this is unfortunately not the case right not with Brink. Close range against a heavy, medium range against a medium with an AR, long range against a sniper, attacking, defending, supporting, buffing, the light body SMG/pistol has the most effective answer for it all with no real downside.

So, like I said in the original post, with all the options in Brink, right now your only real choice is what class to do you want to be?[/QUOTE]
Part of the problem some people (myself included) appear to be having with your OP is that while you appear to be trying to address the issue of balance you are labeling it as a lack of choices. Certainly skewed balance does skew choices. It also appears like your are coming from a purely min/max point of view (making sure your character is absolutely the best according to the numbers) and I don’t think that necessarily equals out to the best play experience.

I think everyone would agree Brink needs a solid passover for balancing work, but I don’t believe the choices are as limited in scope as you portray them to be. I believe there are plenty of valid choices suited for a variety of playstyles. I see this in action nightly. I don’t agree it’s as simple as light + carb + sea eagle = unstoppable/suited for every situation. I think there are other combos able to fill that role that can be just as successful with the right person behind the controller. Feel free not to agree as it’s just my opinion.


(DeeTwo) #18

No. We have to go deeper.


(neg0ne) #19

… the only right way to play the game is xyz body with abc weapon and…

and arument that contains the words: " … IS …" is nor an argument but an opinion.
Guys this is ridiculous. I seen many heavy players rocking the house. but if i play heavy…i suck. so is heavy useless because i suck playing heavy ??? i guess not.

pistol?? pistol IS crap !!! Heckler IS the thing for lightbody … and nothing else !!!
right???

Nope. Just because i use the Hecklerdoesn´t mean its better tha any other weapon. i just deal better with it than with the pistol… thats it.

so plz dont take you point of view for reality… and a disussion may be possible.

maybe its a question of being mature


(NthLegion) #20

I think the real problem with the CARB-9 and smg’s in general is the drum mag. In Brink, mag size generally equals more kills. I like the CARB-9 as a back up, but as a primary I prefer the Bulpdaun for its superior accuracy. If the Bulpdaun could take a drum mag, I’d carry it as back up too.

But, back to the original topic. I’ve had success with a wide variety of guns in Brink. In fact, playing a heavy with the Maximus has netted me more kills per hour than any other gun. When playing my soldier, I think an assault rifle with the underslung gl is absolutely crucial. With grenades fully upgraded, I can stop an enemy charge with a single well placed grenade. The Rokstedi is, for me, the best sniping weapon in the game. The Gerund shoots accurately at ranges the CARB-9 can’t match.

I think the CARB-9 has its roll, and is even a little overpowered, but it’s not the only gun with something to offer.