Fletcher OP??

(SirMurder) #1

So yeah i was playing in a pub today with Fletcher and i kept rekking the 2 phantoms on the other team :trollface: and they started crying about omg fletcher is OP pls nerf…

What do you guys think OP , UP , BALANCED?

(Feley) #2

Little OP I would say… But isn’t the only merc that is OP, so if he is gonna get nerfed, there should better be other mercs on nerf list (especially those that Fletcher can counter and are OP)

(Eox) #3

Meh. Those Phantom you kept killing over and over again where probably the “katana rush” type. Knowing how strong Fletcher is at short range and how it’s dangerous to rush him mindlessly, it’s no surprise that they ended stuck at their own spawn in foetal position, crying for a desperate nerf.

Against Fletcher, keep your distances. People, is it really that hard ?

(Drac0rion) #4

I wouldn’t exactly consider Fletcher OP, but I do find his stickys a little… too useful. I mean with Nader, the nade launcher is rather more situational, but with Fletcher, unless you’re greatly outranged, I really don’t see myself switching to my guns unless stickys are on cooldown.
When seeing players like @N8o on Fletcher, he seems a lot more like an assault merc than engineer. :smiley:

And by the way, shouldn’t this be in the merc discussion?

(Jostabeere) #5

If you play Fletcher, the chat will say “Fletcher OP” and “Flether cheap and noob merc” with about 200% chance.
And if you ask them why they don’t play him, or why they don’t play a cheap OP merc then, they answer: “I’m not that noob to play him”.
He has a high, but rewarding skill-ceiling.

(LifeupOmega) #6

He’s fine when you play 5v5 FF. Makes you think instead of stickies without consequence. Complete pub star though :smiley:

I mean, pubbies will call anything OP though, I had a Sparks main call Phantom OP 'cause I kept blocking an alleyway and knifing her as she walked past.

(Eox) #7

[quote=“LifeupOmega;141372”]He’s fine when you play 5v5 FF. Makes you think instead of stickies without consequence. Complete pub star though :smiley:

I mean, pubbies will call anything OP though, I had a Sparks main call Phantom OP 'cause I kept blocking an alleyway and knifing her as she walked past.[/quote]

Typically the kind of oh-so-common flaw I find on pubs. People complain, but won’t do shit to learn anything. :expressionless:

(PleasantWheat) #8

The thing about fletcher is that he doesn’t have to use the stickies like traps like the other engis. They are essentially airburst grenades on a really short cooldown. If i had my way he would only be able to detonate them once stuck to an object to put him a little more in line with the others.

(watsyurdeal) #9

Just nerf his cooldown a tad, 10 seconds per sticky, that’s really all he needs.

A better solution would be to nerf the detonation delay, so airbursts are more difficult up close, but sticking to an enemy immediately arms the sticky, so you can detonate right away.

(ProfPlump) #10

Fletcher isn’t OP at all - probably one of the most balanced mercs at the moment.
The only truly OP merc is Sparks (and possibly Skyhammer with his airstrike’s devastating power against EVs).

(Dawnlazy) #11

This, the airbust rockets really have to go, he has it way too easy when getting cheap splash damage. That being said, a nerf to stickies would have to be accompanied by a look at his primaries. Blishlock could use a slight RPM buff and shotguns are a more complex matter for another thread but I think most people agree they need a bit of a rework.

(ProfPlump) #12

This, the airbust rockets really have to go, he has it way too easy when getting cheap splash damage. That being said, a nerf to stickies would have to be accompanied by a look at his primaries. Blishlock could use a slight RPM buff and shotguns are a more complex matter for another thread but I think most people agree they need a bit of a rework.[/quote]

(Since you said that the “Blishlock needs a slight RPM buff”).

First off, it’s a Blishok* - no ‘c’.

Second, the Blishlok was never and is never supposed to be as good as the other SMGs - it is supposed to be a gun given to the mercs who were not supposed to excel in firefights (such as Aura - Aura is supposed to primarily heal and revive teammates, while combat is also possible but not her main forcus). If the Blishlok was buffed, Aura would become too strong in combat (since she can already be near-invincible in a 1v1 if she is strafing on her health station with the Blishlok’s current state). In the case of Fletcher, he essentially has a trade up with shotguns (being situational but extremely effective in those situations) or the Blishlok (being much more of a jack of all trades, master of none). Given that the Blishlok and other weak SMGs are already considered a much better choice than shotguns (on Aura, Fletcher and Proxy), it’s pretty obvious that the Blishlok (as well as the Hochfir) doesn’t need a buff at all (unless shotguns also received a buff, but that would also have massive balancing issues, far greater than the issues of buffing the Blishlok).

I’d also argue that his ‘airburst rockets’ aren’t actually that strong - they travel slowly, are highly predictable, aren’t anywhere near as devastating as Nader’s MGL or Fragger’s grenades and are also his most effective method of combat (whereas the Nader has a Crotzni up her sleeve and Fragger has a K-121/M4 with him). They were a ‘little’ overpowered back when Lock On was a stronger augment, but now it has been nerfed he is now perfectly balanced.

(Dawnlazy) #13

This, the airbust rockets really have to go, he has it way too easy when getting cheap splash damage. That being said, a nerf to stickies would have to be accompanied by a look at his primaries. Blishlock could use a slight RPM buff and shotguns are a more complex matter for another thread but I think most people agree they need a bit of a rework.[/quote]

(Since you said that the “Blishlock needs a slight RPM buff”).

First off, it’s a Blishok* - no ‘c’.

Second, the Blishlok was never and is never supposed to be as good as the other SMGs - it is supposed to be a gun given to the mercs who were not supposed to excel in firefights (such as Aura - Aura is supposed to primarily heal and revive teammates, while combat is also possible but not her main forcus). If the Blishlok was buffed, Aura would become too strong in combat (since she can already be near-invincible in a 1v1 if she is strafing on her health station with the Blishlok’s current state). In the case of Fletcher, he essentially has a trade up with shotguns (being situational but extremely effective in those situations) or the Blishlok (being much more of a jack of all trades, master of none). Given that the Blishlok and other weak SMGs are already considered a much better choice than shotguns (on Aura, Fletcher and Proxy), it’s pretty obvious that the Blishlok (as well as the Hochfir) doesn’t need a buff at all (unless shotguns also received a buff, but that would also have massive balancing issues, far greater than the issues of buffing the Blishlok).

I’d also argue that his ‘airburst rockets’ aren’t actually that strong - they travel slowly, are highly predictable, aren’t anywhere near as devastating as Nader’s MGL or Fragger’s grenades and are also his most effective method of combat (whereas the Nader has a Crotzni up her sleeve and Fragger has a K-121/M4 with him). They were a ‘little’ overpowered back when Lock On was a stronger augment, but now it has been nerfed he is now perfectly balanced.[/quote]

Fletcher is actually better than Nader at dishing out splash damage, you either get a direct hit or they have plenty of time to run away from the nade before it detonates - with Fletcher it’s quite the opposite, he simply flings them at you and immediately detonates without there being a window to run unlike Nader. Just look at high level players using either of them, good Naders are actually forced to use their SMG to get more than half of their kills, Fletcher on the other hand doesn’t even bother touching his weapons most of the time, he just abuses his corner-peeking rocket launcher and mostly just uses his guns to finish off someone already damaged by stickies. It simply takes far too much time and effort to kill a Fletcher, way more than an engineer is entitled to at least.

And the Blishlok is quite clearly not meant to be inferior otherwise there wouldn’t be 3 mercs that can choose other SMGs.

(ProfPlump) #14

This, the airbust rockets really have to go, he has it way too easy when getting cheap splash damage. That being said, a nerf to stickies would have to be accompanied by a look at his primaries. Blishlock could use a slight RPM buff and shotguns are a more complex matter for another thread but I think most people agree they need a bit of a rework.[/quote]

(Since you said that the “Blishlock needs a slight RPM buff”).

First off, it’s a Blishok* - no ‘c’.

Second, the Blishlok was never and is never supposed to be as good as the other SMGs - it is supposed to be a gun given to the mercs who were not supposed to excel in firefights (such as Aura - Aura is supposed to primarily heal and revive teammates, while combat is also possible but not her main forcus). If the Blishlok was buffed, Aura would become too strong in combat (since she can already be near-invincible in a 1v1 if she is strafing on her health station with the Blishlok’s current state). In the case of Fletcher, he essentially has a trade up with shotguns (being situational but extremely effective in those situations) or the Blishlok (being much more of a jack of all trades, master of none). Given that the Blishlok and other weak SMGs are already considered a much better choice than shotguns (on Aura, Fletcher and Proxy), it’s pretty obvious that the Blishlok (as well as the Hochfir) doesn’t need a buff at all (unless shotguns also received a buff, but that would also have massive balancing issues, far greater than the issues of buffing the Blishlok).

I’d also argue that his ‘airburst rockets’ aren’t actually that strong - they travel slowly, are highly predictable, aren’t anywhere near as devastating as Nader’s MGL or Fragger’s grenades and are also his most effective method of combat (whereas the Nader has a Crotzni up her sleeve and Fragger has a K-121/M4 with him). They were a ‘little’ overpowered back when Lock On was a stronger augment, but now it has been nerfed he is now perfectly balanced.[/quote]

Fletcher is actually better than Nader at dishing out splash damage, you either get a direct hit or they have plenty of time to run away from the nade before it detonates - with Fletcher it’s quite the opposite, he simply flings them at you and immediately detonates without there being a window to run unlike Nader. Just look at high level players using either of them, good Naders are actually forced to use their SMG to get more than half of their kills, Fletcher on the other hand doesn’t even bother touching his weapons most of the time, he just abuses his corner-peeking rocket launcher and mostly just uses his guns to finish off someone already damaged by stickies. It simply takes far too much time and effort to kill a Fletcher, way more than an engineer is entitled to at least.

And the Blishlok is quite clearly not meant to be inferior otherwise there wouldn’t be 3 mercs that can choose other SMGs.[/quote]

You make a fair point about his ability to blow up the nades and deal splash damage even if they miss but come close… Maybe he needs a blast radius reduction?

But for you to say that the Blishlok is supposed to be inferior because otherwise there wouldn’t be 3 other mercs that can choose it - that’s not a good reason. If you haven’t noticed already, the loadout cards aren’t supposed to be all equal in quality, and the Blishlok loadouts for Bushwhacker, Sawbonez and Phantom are all supposed to be the lesser quality ones so that when you trade up for a Silver/Gold/Cobalt you actually have to risk something, because you might get something bad in the RNG.

And also, some Blishlok cards are actually designed to be balanced in regards to swapping out a good primary for the Blishlok, and being compensated by better augments and/or sidearms. For example, the most popular Bushwhacker card - the C41 - has a KEK-10 and has Lock On, while a less popular loadout card - the BL81 - has a Blishlok but, at the same time as getting Lock On, also gets Steady as well, which makes the BL81 turret much stronger than any other loadout. This means that, in this case, the Blishlok balances out the BL81 loadout by compensating for the much better turret by giving you a worse primary weapon.

(That said, I personally think that the Steady augment needs a buff, as both the BL81 and SM82 are both lackluster in comparison to the C41)

Another similar example is that Phoenix’s best loadout card in terms of augments (KE81) also has the worst gun as his primary (the Hochfir SMG instead of a KEK or a Crotzni). I know it’s not a Blishlok, but the same logic applies here.

(Dawnlazy) #15

[quote=“ProfPlump;141609”]
Another similar example is that Phoenix’s best loadout card in terms of augments (KE81) also has the worst gun as his primary (the Hochfir SMG instead of a KEK or a Crotzni). I know it’s not a Blishlok, but the same logic applies here.[/quote]
I’d take the Hochfir over the Crotzni any day of the week. Woo, an irrelevant 8 more DPS in exchange for vastly inferior accuracy as well as inferior mag capacity. And no I don’t think that a weapon should just suck for the whole purpose of making a third of a mercs’ loadouts bad to make RNG worse. However that is a discussion for another thread, the reason why I suggest they take a look at his primaries is to make up for the nerf that I want to see on his stickies - they shouldn’t just nerf them and just leave him bad at combat, he should be able to kill just as well as any other merc, just not be a pain in the ass to deal with like he currently is IMO. Make stickies only able to start the detonation process once they get stuck onto something or reduce the splash damage radius (think of the Fragger nerf that made his nade actually take skill to use unlike the old BS nade) or maybe instead add an accuracy nerf to sticky throws while jumping, something along those lines.

(ProfPlump) #16

[quote=“Dawnrazor;141612”][quote=“ProfPlump;141609”]
Another similar example is that Phoenix’s best loadout card in terms of augments (KE81) also has the worst gun as his primary (the Hochfir SMG instead of a KEK or a Crotzni). I know it’s not a Blishlok, but the same logic applies here.[/quote]
I’d take the Hochfir over the Crotzni any day of the week. Woo, an irrelevant 8 more DPS in exchange for vastly inferior accuracy as well as inferior mag capacity. And no I don’t think that a weapon should just suck for the whole purpose of making a third of a mercs’ loadouts bad to make RNG worse. However that is a discussion for another thread, the reason why I suggest they take a look at his primaries is to make up for the nerf that I want to see on his stickies - they shouldn’t just nerf them and just leave him bad at combat, he should be able to kill just as well as any other merc, just not be a pain in the ass to deal with like he currently is IMO. Make stickies only able to start the detonation process once they get stuck onto something or reduce the splash damage radius (think of the Fragger nerf that made his nade actually take skill to use unlike the old BS nade) or maybe instead add an accuracy nerf to sticky throws while jumping, something along those lines.[/quote]

Your nerf ideas are good, but the issue is that your idea for compensating for these nerfs are to buff Fletcher’s Blishlok which would have knock-on effects for the other Blishlok mercs, especially Aura. I’m sure a SMALL buff to the Blishlok wouldn’t throw Aura’s balance out the window, but increasing the Blishlok’s DPS to anything more than 124 DPS would most likely make her incredibly powerful.

It would be better to give Fletcher a Fletcher-specific buff, such as increasing his movement speed or max HP, so that the effectiveness of other mercs do not simultaneously become unbalanced.

(SirMurder) #17

Blishlok BLISHKISS!

(Szakalot) #18

couple of points:

fletcher is a lot better on pubs with ff-off and plenty of chaos than an organized 5v5

good players know that gaining any distance on fletcher OR going up in his face are easy counters

nerfing sticky cooldown would only make sense if bugs are fixed, and nerfing it to 10sec would be a HUGE nerf (see nader rof + speed nerf for CD buff)

def not OP compared to fragger and sparks

(XavienX) #19

Pub players are just like mindlessly stupid. There’s a reason why people don’t really use Fletcher in competitive play since he has limits on range. Therefore he isn’t OP or else people would use him everywhere, needless to say, his sticky bombs also have quite a big learning curve.

(Dawnlazy) #20

He’s used in comp by quite a few top players. Personally I don’t think Fletcher as a whole is OP, it’s just his stickies that are broken.