First Impression

(prophett) #1

Started playing almost a week ago. Here are some thoughts -

HUD - All and all I think the HUD and the customization available. The option for numerical health would be nice.

Movement - It seems a little off. Left to right strafing while sprinting would be nice to speed things up a little bit and try to add another layer to skilled movement, which at the moment is kind of bland. You should be able to jump on more things and do more “stuff”. While fighting, I would love to be able to sprint & shoot. Failing that, I would at least be able to sprint while reloading and sprint while using abilities.

ROF/Damage - I am not sure on the technical specs of how much damage x gun does to x part of the body. Maybe a lower ROF would help to extend firefights a little, offering a little more control when encountering multiple enemies and not having ammo piss away too fast. I am new to the game so I am not sure where these settings came from, or what direction everyone thinks they should go in. TTK is kind of short. Maybe a lower rof would help with that.

Spawning - The old formula worked well and I would love it to be implemented/tested in Dirty Bomb. Having a spawn timer next to the mission time would be a great, appropriate (“30s”) defensive spawns that penalize players who choose to be aggressive at the wrong time. Right now it feels chaotic and unorganized. There are way too many random pushes from defenders because there is no penalty for doing it. Spawn timers and reinforcement timers would be a great addition.

Waterloo - another route(s) for the first phase would be a welcome change. Samurai had some nice ideas in his thread
- the first objective feels like trying to plant at the old city wall on Oasis. So much spam on the wall from above :confused:
- plant times vS reinforcement times might need to be adjusted (on all maps)

London Bridge - My least favorite map at the moment. Up until the EV reaches the stage where you escort/carry 2 objectives feels off. Too many routes, too many angles, too many ways to get shot in the back, flanked, etc… I think the first part of the map is too vertical. A catwalk on top of a bridge on top of a road. Sure, goldrush was like it, but it just doesn’t feel right.
The most exciting stage of the map, the doc carry, is the shortest. If the attackers make it to outside with the docs there is little hope to prevent them from securing, as the EV is parked immediately in front of the entrance, and there is plenty of cover. In “Goldrush”, trying to escape the bank courtyard and go short/long was the most exciting part of the map. It would be nice if some of these doc carry maps captured that excitement. I think this stage of London Bridge could be improved upon.

Camden - My favorite map at the moment. Love the layout, and the love how the art/texturing has progressed since I first saw it in the MS16 video. Lots of good battles around each phase of each objective. The second objective is normally a painful grind from my experience, but fun nonetheless. On the last stage D are easily camped.

Player base - It is extremely small. I understand it is an alpha, but currently the only time for people in North America to play is on Euro servers in the afternoon (their evening). This is problematic as most people in NA are working at this time (or just getting home from work), only leaving weekend afternoons to get some games in with a full, or mostly full server. Inviting some of the elite crowd in might improve the situation.

Hit Reg - it’s wierd. You hear so many shots land but there he is, still standing. Still need to test this out further if a second person ever connects to a US server…

The airstrike - I pretty much echo what pulley said in this (http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/35863-New-old-Airstrike-Question) thread. It is pretty much useless at the moment due to what seems to be an error with explosions compared to marker placement. I remember an older vid where it appeared to have more bombs spread out over a bigger area. How did the testing of that go? At the moment it is pretty much useless for trying to gain a heavily defended area, or hold off a large rush. I wish the can itself was “heavier”, so it didn’t bounce around like a tennis ball when you throw it. It has made some strange deflections/bounces for me

Game modes - I hope you include some more game modes (CTF and/or base race)

Plant Animation - I really wish we could get away from being stuck in a plant animation. Giving the engineer the option of throwing down some c4 and moving around to keep tapping it with his pliers might increase successful plants. As it stands if he hears someone coming he doesn’t really have an option. It would be great if they allowed free planting anywhere. Being able to drop c4 anywhere and arm anywhere would be an improvement.

Doc Carry Objectives - I pretty much echo what other people are saying. This shoudl be the most exciting part of the map but it’s current setup is flawed. The EV sitting right outside the door doesn’t allow much chance for the defenders to return (on london bridge and white chapel). I also wish it was touch and go, and no “loading” of the objective. It’ll bring more excitement to those quick grabs or clutch returns.

Objective Placement - Radar was my favorite map in ET. I loved the whole east/west defence and rotating back and forth, and the dynamic the forward command post added. There is none of that same feeling in Dirty Domb. Objectives are placed within 10 feet of one another, making it one big lemming rush with little or no tact involved. Provide more routes and space out the objectives a little, forcing the “D” and "O’ to make some choices. As it is now, it’s spawn and mindlessly sprint to the objective(s) :expressionless:

Misc stuff - Pretty sure this is known, but you can’t go near the EV without getting stuck to it.

  • need more forward spawns. It would throw in an extra side objective to fight over. Flag fights on ice & command post fights on radar were always exciting.
  • the covie needs some love. When adding some extra routes make them a covert door which he can sneak through or blow

I’ll add in more for the other maps + suggestions for improvements later :>

(rand0m) #2

I agree with pretty much everything here.

(INF3RN0) #3

Sort of already knew what your first impressions post was going to say since it’s been about the same thing for most people. Can’t disagree with any of it either.

It has to do with the EU server and the way the net code assesses damage priority. Basically you are already dead according to the server, but you can still fire off a few shots that don’t count on your screen. Overall the reg is really very good and it probably happens a lot less on low ping.

(tokamak) #4

People like you really show the value of letting slowly trickle in new people.

(Protekt1) #5

I think the airstrike you are referring to with a larger blast radius is the artillery strike you call in with the goggles/red beam marker. That is part of a different fops set up like there is an engineer with a shotgun/mp + mine instead of smg/pistol + turret. The other fops has that same pistol as the medic currently has, but I am not sure if there is much of a difference but the medic’s feels more lethal per shot to me.

I feel the same about hit reg but I assume its because of being on EU. Its hard to tell if hit reg is correct and its been so long since I played on US I don’t even know lol.

(Humate) #6

ROF/Damage - I am not sure on the technical specs of how much damage x gun does to x part of the body. Maybe a lower ROF would help to extend firefights a little, offering a little more control when encountering multiple enemies and not having ammo piss away too fast. I am new to the game so I am not sure where these settings came from, or what direction everyone thinks they should go in. TTK is kind of short. Maybe a lower rof would help with that

Lower rof is something a lot of players have been requesting.

Hit Reg - it’s wierd. You hear so many shots land but there he is, still standing. Still need to test this out further if a second person ever connects to a US server…

Sometimes there will be a delay when the server tries to figure out who won the fight. In the midst of that delay, any damage you deal wont count, but on your end you will hear all the hitsounds indicating they do.

(prophett) #7

camden - increase D spawn time
white chapel - increase D spawn time
london bridge - increase D spawn time
waterloo - increase D spawn time

^ this was painfully obvious having had some organized games tonight on the US server. So many times you have to fight the same guy 2-3 times before you reach the objective, and then another 1-2 while defending a plant.

increase D spawn time
increase D spawn time
increase D spawn time
increase D spawn time
increase D spawn time.

(ImageOmega) #8

[QUOTE=prophett;444451]camden - increase D spawn time
white chapel - increase D spawn time
london bridge - increase D spawn time
waterloo - increase D spawn time

^ this was painfully obvious having had some organized games tonight on the US server. So many times you have to fight the same guy 2-3 times before you reach the objective, and then another 1-2 while defending a plant.

increase D spawn time
increase D spawn time
increase D spawn time
increase D spawn time
increase D spawn time.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. I think 30 seconds for both sides would be good (or slightly lower for attackers as to give them a slight advantage since some spawns favor Defense). Nothing worse than killing 2 or 3 enemies and working on the last 3 or 4, but the amount of time taken to do that gives plenty of time for the first dead to respawn and travel back before you can get to the objective.

(prophett) #9

Depending on what map/stage/travel times, D needs to be a lot higher. An extra 10-15s.

It is painful trying to force myself to actually play a round. I’ll hop on and bug find and trying to suggest improvements, but the near instant D respawn is a pretty big turnoff at the moment. I thought it might be a little different in an organized setting/scrim, but that was arguably even worse than pub play.

Map block out for the next month :expressionless:

(iwound) #10

[QUOTE=prophett;444220]
Doc Carry Objectives - I pretty much echo what other people are saying. This shoudl be the most exciting part of the map but it’s current setup is flawed.
The EV sitting right outside the door doesn’t allow much chance for the defenders to return (on london bridge and white chapel). I also wish it was touch and go, and no “loading” of the objective. It’ll bring more excitement to those quick grabs or clutch returns.[/QUOTE]

contradiction? a longer distance between points would help but a transmit can add enough time for a return. and simulate a longer distance but still within reach of defence. If defence could see the actual transmit bar when its loading this would help them at least make an attempt at recovery.

good first impression post.

(Anti) #11

We’re aware that spawn times right now might be the basis of a lot of issues and we’re keen to make some changes. We’d like to get some better stats data related to the current spawn times first though before we make the changes (the data we have for this in Echo right now isn’t as good as it could be), as this will give us a much clearer understanding of how each change effects play.

Waiting on those stats changes, and then getting the data, means it might be 3-4 weeks time before we settle on better spawn times/systems.

(Samurai.) #12

[QUOTE=Anti;445024]We’re aware that spawn times right now might be the basis of a lot of issues and we’re keen to make some changes. We’d like to get some better stats data related to the current spawn times first though before we make the changes (the data we have for this in Echo right now isn’t as good as it could be), as this will give us a much clearer understanding of how each change effects play.
[/QUOTE]

So by “better” are we talking more playtime in general, or is there something specific you would like us as players to do to help provide these ‘better’ stats, or are we talking about on your end tweaking Echo to record more detailed information? If there is a way we the players can help speed up changes to aspects like Spawn Waves by providing ‘better’ data, just let us know.

(BomBaKlaK) #13

[QUOTE=Anti;445024]We’re aware that spawn times right now might be the basis of a lot of issues and we’re keen to make some changes. We’d like to get some better stats data related to the current spawn times first though before we make the changes (the data we have for this in Echo right now isn’t as good as it could be), as this will give us a much clearer understanding of how each change effects play.

Waiting on those stats changes, and then getting the data, means it might be 3-4 weeks time before we settle on better spawn times/systems.[/QUOTE]

spawn waves ?

(scre4m.) #14

yes, those exist.

But appear to be either 0 or 15. no idea.
As Anti said above and some other dev said some weeks ago: they were added, but will be tweaked some weeks later, when there is enough echo data.

spawn times and performance are the 2 key issues imo. So I am really looking forward to what the game might play like in 1 month.
If those two are alright we are one big step closer to a good game.

(Anti) #15

@samurai: We’re not reporting enough useful data to Echo about spawns and various other times in game, so right now although we have a great tool we can’t find out what we want from it. We need to add a few more stats to the game, then have you guys play once they’re in, so that we have better Echo data to make judgments from. We wouldn’t need you folks to do anything special other than playing lots :slight_smile:

@BomBaKlaK: Stopwatch currently has spawn waves for both teams, objective has spawns for the attackers and fixed spawn times for individual defenders. Our gut feeling is we probably need to go to spawn waves for Objective too, but before we make that change we want to know what impacts those two different systems we have on live right now are making to certain parts of the game and we need stats to do that.

Once we have that data we can use it to make more effective changes to both the spawn system and the spawn times on each team. Then we patch those into the game, get new data, and compare it to the old data along with feedback from you folks.

This is a slow process but it’s the one that will give us the best control and understanding over the changes we make to spawns.

(Kl3ppy) #16

I dont get the sense behind having basically 2 same servers types (stopwatch & Objective) and use different settings. If I understood it right, DB will have spawn waves and therefore the timing is crucial in order to have a good game. So please set spawn waves on both servers, you will get more data about the spawn waves and can adjust them. Right now, you have 1 server which is pretty useless regarding spawnwaves and the other one delivers too less useful data. Why do you guys not experiment with spawn timers. Set e.g. for one week the spawntimers on both sides, test the values and then change them accordingly to the feedback, for example, defenders spawn wave is too short so increase it by lets say 5 secs and test it for a couple of days, or reduce it for the attackers. Echo should deliver data how fast a player reaches the fight area from the spawn. Im not into map design at all, but I think the travel time needs to be correlated (negativ or positive, dont ask me that :wink: ) with the spawn timer. Maybe some talented comp. mappers can help here. Maybe some of the ETQW Map Designers at SD can give some feedback because overall they did a good job regarding spawn wave timing.

(Hundopercent) #17

[QUOTE=Anti;445055]@samurai: We’re not reporting enough useful data to Echo about spawns and various other times in game, so right now although we have a great tool we can’t find out what we want from it. We need to add a few more stats to the game, then have you guys play once they’re in, so that we have better Echo data to make judgments from. We wouldn’t need you folks to do anything special other than playing lots :slight_smile:

@BomBaKlaK: Stopwatch currently has spawn waves for both teams, objective has spawns for the attackers and fixed spawn times for individual defenders. Our gut feeling is we probably need to go to spawn waves for Objective too, but before we make that change we want to know what impacts those two different systems we have on live right now are making to certain parts of the game and we need stats to do that.

Once we have that data we can use it to make more effective changes to both the spawn system and the spawn times on each team. Then we patch those into the game, get new data, and compare it to the old data along with feedback from you folks.

This is a slow process but it’s the one that will give us the best control and understanding over the changes we make to spawns.[/QUOTE]

Would you be willing to add 10 seconds to defense spawn time while you tweak Echo so we can have a bit more of an enjoyable experience and than number crunch after that? 3 - 4 weeks is a long time and in the US we get about 1 game a week if we’re lucky; we would like it to be a bit more enjoyable if possible. I don’t feel like we’re asking for much here since it should just be an integer number change but feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

(BomBaKlaK) #18

[QUOTE=Anti;445055]@samurai: We’re not reporting enough useful data to Echo about spawns and various other times in game, so right now although we have a great tool we can’t find out what we want from it. We need to add a few more stats to the game, then have you guys play once they’re in, so that we have better Echo data to make judgments from. We wouldn’t need you folks to do anything special other than playing lots :slight_smile:

@BomBaKlaK: Stopwatch currently has spawn waves for both teams, objective has spawns for the attackers and fixed spawn times for individual defenders. Our gut feeling is we probably need to go to spawn waves for Objective too, but before we make that change we want to know what impacts those two different systems we have on live right now are making to certain parts of the game and we need stats to do that.

Once we have that data we can use it to make more effective changes to both the spawn system and the spawn times on each team. Then we patch those into the game, get new data, and compare it to the old data along with feedback from you folks.

This is a slow process but it’s the one that will give us the best control and understanding over the changes we make to spawns.[/QUOTE]

Yeah ! ok thx for the answer !

(Anti) #19

We’ll probably up the defender spawn time on SW before then yes, that doesn’t really affect what we’re trying to do.

@Shifty: Data by itself may not always be useful, a lot of the value comes from having historic or alternate data to compare it against, like having a control experiment in a lab etc. By having two modes right now, running different systems, we can see how those spawn systems affect other things we care about such a kill locations, front line position, average time spent incapped/alive/dead etc. If we switch all servers to the same system, before we have that data, then we lose the chance to make that comparison.

I understand this is frustrating for some of you folks right now but this is the kind of testing we need to do in alpha to ensure the game is quality by open beta. We could balance purely on feedback but doing that right now would be the equivalent of driving a car with only one eye open (which is bad by the way! :tongue:)

(Kl3ppy) #20

Ok, I understand :slight_smile:

I thought that in this case with spawn waves, actual feedback is more reliable than just plain data :wink: