Fine Tuning Update v48857 - 19/08/2015

[Kroad]

For the record I spoke to a couple of ‘pro’ snipers tonight (since I have to broadcast this now rather than do it in private as always ). They had interesting thoughts on why they think Vassili is OP and how to fix it. Neither agreed with each other or waffles’ suggestions on how to address it, so yeaaa… there were some interesting ideas though.

Hey, would it be possible to receive an indication as to who these “pro” snipers are? I mean, I know that they’re not linkzr, taimou, chicken or guilte, which are the 4 people you should be talking to… don’t know how you can talk to “pro” snipers and miss out on these 4, especially considering that linkz and taimou snipe for the 2 best teams in the game

[BioSnark]

Whoever unreserved the F1-3 keys in this update is awesome.

[PixelTwitch]

I still think it would be interesting to lock each merc to a specific weapon.

It cannot happen now obviously but I hope we get more unique weapons in future.

[Raviolay]

It cannot happen now obviously but I hope we get more unique weapons in future.

I would like to see a merc with a recurved bow as a primary. With a hand repeater crosbow as a secondary. The ability could be the option of notching two extra types of arrow. One being a stun that can knock out equipment like a emp for a while. Then the obligatory HE arrow for harder targets.

[Glottis-3D]

Strange thing about Croztni.
After previous nerf, it felt realy bad. Hitreg or Hit_feedback was off. And i stopped using it.
KEK10 and to even more extent Hochfir felt much much better.

[Kl3ppy]

Looking forward to test it.
Lets see how the SMG-9 now feels, liked it already and now the reduced spread makes it interesting

[Protekt1]

I like the spread on the timik 47 now, at least based on first impression. Now bring on the stoker.

[mti]

Sorry to bring up this rather old post but being a little busy with work all I could do yesterday was get 2-3 games in and not read thru the discussion here.

[QUOTE=spookify;537223]
People got their wish with the AimPunch/Pain Twitch/View Kick!

• I personally dont really notice it and I guess I will notice it less.
• I have been playing this game for almost 3 years and I actually thought it was in the game in some form for that whole time.
• I prefer this DB Pain Twitch system much better then ET’s. I want my bullets to go where my Cross-Hair Goes!!!
• If you still dont like it learn to adapt! You got shot first and it through off your aim. Re-set, poke a corner or continue to fight.
• I really dont find it that hard to compensate for especially for really good players. Pro’s/Top players can feel and react to pain twitch and either adjust their cross-hair, change there movement action or abandon the fight to re-set. What is also nice is that it is based on Damage so your subconscious kicks on and alerts you that you might loss this fight. [/QUOTE]

I honestly dont think you understand how aim punch works in this game. If I used my crossfire.nu alias people would know Im not the biggest Pansy fan but when shes right shes right.

This should clear up while what you said is how it should be (and why it is/can be a valid mechanic) and why the current execution is based on rng, not skill.

Other remarks and thoughts on the update not including obvious stuff, such as “thank god for AC”:

• Reduction of spread is a good thing. Keep this trend up. We dont want lasers but prefer balance mechanics you can come up with that make guns feel more distinguished and keep TTK up there w/o adding rng.

• Shotgun range increase I am not a big fan of. All of these “1 shot kill weapons” feel out of place in this game to begin with and in case of the shotgun it has a very specialized type of situation/environment in which it works. This is something you aim for in weapon balance and rightly so. There is the alternative (terribad) SMG on all shotgun classes so people still have the choice to trade massive close quarter potential for a sub par ranged weapon. I am sure you have your numbers and reasons to do it but this is a trend/change I am not happy to see.

• I am not sure about that nader health increase. I assume she performs badly on pubs but let me tell you that in the hands of a decent player she was the only one to rival Fragger and Vasilli in terms of thread levels.

• No change to Fragger: He is a beast but that seems to be what you guys are going for.

• No change to Vasilli: He got the potential to make me quit the game entirely. Such an uninspired and out-of-place merc. The gameplay he promotes/provokes reminds me of my CoD4 days, which is really not a flavour I want in my signature SD dish.

• Short AK nerf (maybe you could have chosen non-weird names for your guns so I could remember them… Blishlok, sure thing): Dont know why you guys are so keen on doing this. Its the gun of choice because it feels better than the alternatives. Always more of a fan of improving other choices or giving them a purpose of their own rather than nerfing something. I honestly hope this wont impact sawbones play too much. You dont want to see ET style rambo medics, I get it but he still is a semi-combat hybrid class in this game. Its honestly not like any class with actual combat strenght struggled against that weapon.

• Dreiss AR change: I think the weapon was too powerful in close quarters even before the change. I would like to see this weapon find a more specific place/role.

• Kek-10: Still no change to it. Surprised me last time you touched the short AK and not the Kek-10 and surprised me again this time. It sure feels different in game from what your numbers seem to suggest. I would need more experienced players to explain to me why that is.

• Melee attack change: It was introduced for a reason. The execution people were not happy with but how is the underlying problem being dealt with now that this is removed?

• 4 sec spawn protection: Decision might have to be revisited for comp play. My initial impression is that it is very much a good thing for pub play as it prevents cheesy bs.

• MM lobbies still broken and have to be remade after every single match. Not as bad as the 4vs6 lobby days but still very much annoying.

[spookify]

I honestly dont think you understand how aim punch works in this game. If I used my crossfire.nu alias people would know Im not the biggest Pansy fan but when shes right shes right.
https://youtu.be/n-OvjojLB1Y?t=5m10s
This should clear up while what you said is how it should be (and why it is/can be a valid mechanic) and why the current execution is based on rng, not skill.

Your bullets go where your cross-hair goes its that simple… Then you add spread/Recoil and you get Dirty Bomb.
Your bullets go where the center of your screen is its that simple… Then you add spread (Small Recoil, if any) and you get ET.

Both Pansys and my comments are correct and we are basically saying the same thing.

The only difference is it sounds like she likes the ET Pain Twitch with the bullets not following the cross-hair while I like the DB one where the bullets follow the cross-hair.

Two of the main reason I like Pain Twitch Following the Cross-Hair like in DB is that is harder to counter and people are on an equal playing field. In ET people where using 120 FOV to counter this and many many players were using external cross-hairs so that their aim stayed true in the center of their screen.

I will however say I am not happy with the current state of Aim punch and I will leave it at that.

[spookify]

[QUOTE=mti_;537345]

• Kek-10: Still no change to it. Surprised me last time you touched the short AK and not the Kek-10 and surprised me again this time. It sure feels different in game from what your numbers seem to suggest. I would need more experienced players to explain to me why that is.

• Melee attack change: It was introduced for a reason. The execution people were not happy with but how is the underlying problem being dealt with now that this is removed?

• 4 sec spawn protection: Decision might have to be revisited for comp play. My initial impression is that it is very much a good thing for pub play as it prevents cheesy bs.

• MM lobbies still broken and have to be remade after every single match. Not as bad as the 4vs6 lobby days but still very much annoying.[/QUOTE]

#1) The KEK-10 is amazing!

#2) WTF you talking about. I honestly dont know where to start on this Melee comment… The Primary attack is fixed! Yes! That is awesome! The secondary is still slowed down. This melee change is very good for the game. Plus it has nothing to do with execution mode or execution mode people…

#3) 4 Sec Spawn Protection hardly effects anything! Pub, comp they are all effected the same way… Go run out of spawns and see where 4 seconds gets you. IMO its just for very blatant spawn campers that are literally “sitting” in the enemy spawn. This shield give the spawn team a 50% shield to kill that idiot sitting in there.

#4) I agree.

[Kroad]

[QUOTE=spookify;537348]
#3) 4 Sec Spawn Protection hardly effects anything! Pub, comp they are all effected the same way… Go run out of spawns and see where 4 seconds gets you. IMO its just for very blatant spawn campers that are literally “sitting” in the enemy spawn. This shield give the spawn team a 50% shield to kill that idiot sitting in there. [/QUOTE]

depends on the map

bridge last objective, defenders spawn looking straight at one of the entries to EMP building. If you try and enter through there and the defenders spawn on you, they’ll be able to shoot you for full damage while you can only shoot them for half… wonderful
trainyard first obj, attackers can enter mid and still have spawn protection, meaning they can shoot at def sniper watching mid while he can only shoot them for half health

spawn protection change was unneeded and doesn’t even fix spawn camping, spawn camping is caused due to unbalanced teams, if you add better spawn protection then it just means they’ll be camped slightly out of their spawn… wow so fun, they got to run 10 metres before being killed

[spookify]

[QUOTE=Kroad;537349]depends on the map

bridge last objective, defenders spawn looking straight at one of the entries to EMP building. If you try and enter through there and the defenders spawn on you, they’ll be able to shoot you for full damage while you can only shoot them for half… wonderful
trainyard first obj, attackers can enter mid and still have spawn protection, meaning they can shoot at def sniper watching mid while he can only shoot them for half health

spawn protection change was unneeded and doesn’t even fix spawn camping, spawn camping is caused due to unbalanced teams, if you add better spawn protection then it just means they’ll be camped slightly out of their spawn… wow so fun, they got to run 10 metres before being killed[/QUOTE]

I am trying to imagine your two examples and I can not. The train one would need to be a crazy shot on both ends. By the time you get to middle you may have 1 second left to pick out the defending sniper and pop him mean while if he see’s you right as you enter mid you are unhurt. I fail to see your point.

Last stage bridge you run out of protection as soon as you get a clean shot.

Go look at all points its literally for people sitting in your spawn.

To your last point exactly!! Its just for people literally sitting in your spawn!! or so a sniper isnt jump scoping into a spawn or something like that. There other issues SD has with spawn camping like map design and so on but gezz why are people so jumpy about something that really doesnt effect anything other then slightly help a team spawn with out a enemy sitting there waiting… Thats ALL IT IS!

[Ashog]

Hey, would it be possible to receive an indication as to who these “pro” snipers are? I mean, I know that they’re not linkzr, taimou, chicken or guilte, which are the 4 people you should be talking to… don’t know how you can talk to “pro” snipers and miss out on these 4, especially considering that linkz and taimou snipe for the 2 best teams in the game

lol that taimou dude who plays on lego textures? U must be kidding… can’t take this guy seriously. It remains to see how good he is on low graphical settings from the menu… Probably will be just above average.

[mti]

The only difference is it sounds like she likes the ET Pain Twitch with the bullets not following the cross-hair while I like the DB one where the bullets follow the cross-hair.

You did not listen to what she said in the video. The bullets do NOT follow your crosshair in DB. A randominzed addition of spread is applied and can hence not be compensated by skill. There is no visual indication of this RNG happening that would allow for players to learn how to deal with it.

#1) The KEK-10 is amazing!

#2) WTF you talking about. I honestly dont know where to start on this Melee comment… The Primary attack is fixed! Yes! That is awesome! The secondary is still slowed down. This melee change is very good for the game. Plus it has nothing to do with execution mode or execution mode people…

#3) 4 Sec Spawn Protection hardly effects anything! Pub, comp they are all effected the same way… Go run out of spawns and see where 4 seconds gets you. IMO its just for very blatant spawn campers that are literally “sitting” in the enemy spawn. This shield give the spawn team a 50% shield to kill that idiot sitting in there.

#1 The Kek-10 is incredibly strong and many people predicted/expected it to be nerfed. Why is that apparently not reflected in the numbers, I wonder?

#2 No1 is talking about Execution mode mate. The turn speed limit was introduced not to annoy people but because there was an exploit of basically being a 360° slice&dice. How has that problem been fixed now that this change is rolled back?

#3 Fast classes can get quite far in 4sec and killing an entire enemy spawn wave early/quickly or just after spawn (“giving full”) is an important opporunity to comp players. Being able to push towards their spawn and hold them back/attack them at the very beginning of their next assault will give your team extra time to ammo up, set up deployables or get into position if they themselves respawned. You dont want to see naders and fraggers (or even vasillis, skys, …) killing people just getting out of spawn in pub but in comp that is actually a core skill set.

[Kl3ppy]

After being able to play some rounds I have to say that the performance is declining from patch to patch. I have so many micro lags it is unplayable for me.

[BioSnark]

#2 No1 is talking about Execution mode mate. The turn speed limit was introduced not to annoy people but because there was an exploit of basically being a 360° slice&dice. How has that problem been fixed now that this change is rolled back?

Regarding melee, I would expect more changes to happen in time based on what smooth has said.

[Kroad]

lol that taimou dude who plays on lego textures? U must be kidding… can’t take this guy seriously. It remains to see how good he is on low graphical settings from the menu… Probably will be just above average.

LOL

this really shows a lot about you, are you not aware that lego textures haven’t been possible for months now? And that textures have been limited even further recently? when you don’t even know what is possible in the game, please don’t even try and post feedback

textures don’t improve aim lmao, sure you can keep thinking that people are better than you due to configs but people’s aim etc has not decreased in the slightest with the texture nerfs. If you think lego textures that aren’t even possible anymore are such an advantage, why don’t you use them and be a top player?

[Destroy666]

I love the complaints about SD not listening to pros, which mention immature high egos like chickenNwaffles as the representation of the competitive scene in DB that should have a high influence on the game. Do you really think you’re going to achieve anything with people who got “Oh, hey, you’re **** and I have skill, so I should be the decision-maker… [lack of arguments here]” attitude? Even towards the devs? http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/45791-Splash-Damage-any-plans-to-talk-to-the-game-s-top-players?p=537207&viewfull=1#post537207 Laughable.

EDIT: and don’t get me wrong, I dislike the aimpunch mentioned by that smartass too. But I’d never listen to him if I was a dev (and I am a dev, webdev).

[Ashog]

[QUOTE=Kroad;537361]LOL

this really shows a lot about you, are you not aware that lego textures haven’t been possible for months now? And that textures have been limited even further recently? when you don’t even know what is possible in the game, please don’t even try and post feedback

textures don’t improve aim lmao, sure you can keep thinking that people are better than you due to configs but people’s aim etc has not decreased in the slightest with the texture nerfs. If you think lego textures that aren’t even possible anymore are such an advantage, why don’t you use them and be a top player?[/QUOTE]

Don’t lmao me, I know the stuff. Lego textures are very helpful to spot and track targets fast, especially when only 1 shot matters. So no, denied.

His lego footage was from couple of months ago, and as a coincidence or not, haven’t ever seen him or anything from him since then. He is probably busy dealing with the new texture limits right now

[abnorm]

pls pls pls remove this terrible frag beep notification or turn it off by selectin " hit beeps " disabled, ty