Finalizing the Core Mechanics (weapons/movement).

(INF3RN0) #1

What are people’s thoughts on the movement and weaponry these days? I think it’s a good time to get back to posting our thoughts on the current state of the core mechanics of the game.

Weapons:

-Creep reduction was a very nice addition, but I strongly feel it should differ per weapon type. Ex. high rof weapons could have larger creep, while slower more accurate weapons would have much less. Basically creep would be less of a problem if it wasn’t just a generalized default addition for all weapons and actually applied to the weapon formula. That said I still would like the spread on the base rifle types to be more similar to the ETQW style.

-I still want a slower RoF. This doesn’t mean every gun has to shoot at the same speed however. Some weapons should shoot faster than others, but as a default placeholder the base weaponry should fire slower than it does currently. Some simple testing can help determine where that place is. I’m simply calling for longer tracking requirements via slower RoF and more accurate weaponry.

-Damage is completely symbiotic with the above two. I can’t comment entirely on what the damage should be until the RoF and spreads are finalized. I do however think that @ 35 bullets it should be 3 hs or 7 bs by default (differing on different weapon types) so that in a perfect aimbot situation a player can kill up to 4 players in a clip.

Movement:

-Huge improvement from where it began. Sprint->jump needs to become more fluid as it is extremely choppy currently. Player speed is satisfactory.

-Would like to see some ramp jumping or some sort of movement mini-game.

-Maps will need to cater to the movement since its changed. You can do a lot more now, but the maps don’t take that into consideration.

(tokamak) #2

Close combat feels really good right now. Maybe some delay in getting back up from crouching would help because now you can rapidly crouch and get back up again which is fairly effective in combat.

Long distance is still problematic. Ironsighting needs to be more useful or else everything will be decided by chance.

(Mustang) #3

Movement wise I’d like to see some crouch jump and ramp jump added.

Player speeds and accelerations are fine for me where they are right now, weapon switch and reload speeds are aren’t a massive issue atm either.

Creep is just about fine, but I’d like to see creep-recovery to be much faster, like a 35-40% reduction perhaps.

Each gun having different RoF, spread, creep, etc. would be very nice.

Knife needs a nerf, it hits from too far away and I think this is making knife kills feel too cheap, easy and fast.

However I’d like it if knife could have some vertical range also, i.e. don’t have to look completely down at floor to gib a foe.

(INF3RN0) #4

[QUOTE=tokamak;421911]

Long distance is still problematic. Ironsighting needs to be more useful or else everything will be decided by chance.[/QUOTE]

I find long distance to be the least problematic… there’s some slight vertical recoil, otherwise I find the scoped spread much more favorable.

(Violator) #5

Movement speed feels pretty good now.
Jumping is strange, you can bunny hop a couple of times then you lose all forward momentum.
Strafe speed seems slow, hard to dance to avoid being hit.
Knife very OP, 1 hit kill (I don’t know the trick for this though - is it from the back only?). Have to lower sens to be able to aim due to low fps so die to anyone within 5 feet of me. Recon should still have instakill on backstab.
I still suffer from kill/die/kill/die but I think I’ve had this problem in every game I play so I usually end up with an exact 50% k/d unless the team is getting steamrolled.
Assault rifle, eng primary, medic primary - these feel pretty good, reload speed is fine, creep spread ok. Seem to be more accurate from hip than IS but maybe thats just me, still getting used to new mouse. Over long distance IS shots seem to do about 1hp of damage.
MG - to me at least totally useless, too much spread and bullets seem to do little or no damage.
Sniper - was getting killed by this mainly or knife. As I can’t seem to aim while moving I was just endlessly sniped as I took aim, seemed a lot more than the previous patch. Had a go myself and couldn’t hit anything with it lol.

Most of this is probably just me being crap :).

(maxxxxlol) #6

Would still love to see crouching do something to the spread and recoil. makes no sense for it to not reduce anything.

(Anti) #7

I’ll dismiss to myths I’ve seen here before I give some feedback. Crouch does affect spread and recoil, but that affect is only slight. All guns do have their own creep speeds but again, they’re probably so slight as to not be that noticeable.

I think in general we’re at about the point you are Inferno, we feel we probably have a good baseline but we definitely feel we need more variety in the guns. there is definitely room for slower more accurate ARs and faster, more spread, SMGs and MPs, as well as entirely new and more unique weapons.

I think we’re also reasonably comfortable with movement right now as well, expect maybe in very close quarters fire fights where we still find some players are not having much fun.

Overall though I’d suggest we’re probably quite close to having our ‘baseline’ from which to start adding more variety.

(DarkangelUK) #8

Do you think adding too much variety will put people off playing certain classes due to the gun that comes with it? I believe a few people weren’t keen on playing engineer when it was eng01 only due to it only being shotgun. That’s an extreme example but still shows that the loadout has an effect on people’s choices.

(Anti) #9

Yea, it’s something we are a conscious of. I think it’s more a question of us finding a system to prevent that happening though, rather than not having that variety.

(Bloodbite) #10

Personally I’m comfortable with a firearm class restriction per player class, and then endless variety within that. So if engy gets shotgun/smg and pistol/something-else choices ONLY, you would think that, in theory, whoever is serious about their loadouts will then explore each of the smg’s and decide which has its best application to their playing style while carrying out engy duties. I imagine my choice for an smg or shotgun with my suicide run engie will be distinctly different from my support medic loadouts.

That should keep it simple enough for the light players to just go “meh, all the engies are going smg/shotgun, it’s all the same to me” while still providing a gun fetish appeal to those that are into having more choice.

I would also like to see something in the way of dual pistols. I think turning the focus of close quarter fire fights towards sidearms would not only eliminate any need to tweak the other weapons (except shotguns), but it would also give a major incentive for folks to actually use their sidearms.

Unlocking duals in W:ET was crazy fun… I think partly because of that massive boom sfx for the Allied Colt… but it was satisfying to run through a doorway like a fool, guns blazing at everything and anything that twitched.

Has anyone considered tasers as a sidearm option? I’m not sure how it would play out in the real world of matches, but I could see an engy tasering someone, cause a slight health and somewhat significant response-delay to the enemy while a medic whips around the corner blowing folks away.

Downside to that is the risk of delay related exploits… what’s the plan as far as what you can tell us with the variety of sidearms?

(maxxxxlol) #11

Spread is slighlty different but not in a helpful way


Med primary.

(Anti) #12

I think you’ll find it’s the accuracy of the early shots that improves, not over a whole clip.

(maxxxxlol) #13

not enough! :tongue:

(rookie1) #14

Movement: Very comfortable with it right now …maybe a tad faster on strafe

(Apples) #15

  • I’m relatively happy with the movement, as I said some more momentum on jump would be cool (sprint run n jump is weird, after 3 jumps you loose all the momentum). Some trickjump addition with strafe jumping fixed can be a positive thing, but its on another thread.

  • RoF feels a tad too high but on the other hand sometimes I feel like I dont deal damages, so I wont pronounce myself here before I play some more.

  • On the weapons I agree with the general consensus here, all the guns feels the same to me, so adding more variety will indeed be a good thing, now the more the options, the harder to balance, so I would like not having a bazzilion of weapons to choose from, 3-5 AR, 3-5 MG , 2-3 scoped and maybe 3 shotguns (plus the sidearms, perks, nades, heavy weapons and gadgets) should be enough and easy to balance.

  • Knife should never be instakill in my view (except the backstab covie), we arent into CoD.

  • Nades could gain some “weight”, I mean I have the feeling I’m tossing a little plastic stuff when I drop one, the gravity doesnt feel right on them, thus making it harder to aim and toss correctly.

(acQu) #16

Strafe speed should be equal to forwardspeed. Just like in W:ET. It still feels blocky to me. Also i do not like movement block attempts, the reload-slow-down is a perfect example for that. There are a couple of other slow downs like this throughout the game. Movement still does not feel good to me, although there as been quite some improvement. As an example i also do not like Planetside 2 movement, but i still think it’s a great game. I say PS2 because i do not play other shooters such as CoD. Only Battlefield 3, but can not remember how it was there. I think movement was still a lot more fluid strafing-wise on BF3, but could be wrong on that. I was mainly in tanks anyway :stuck_out_tongue:

EDIT other slowdown examples: grenade firing, knife firing. Also i believe there is too much delay when you strafe from left directly to right.

(Reacto) #17

I think jumping might be a bit strong how it is now, but it’s debatable. You can jump around like crazy and it’s a lot harder to take you down in close range combat. If you keep it like this competitive matches will be a bunny hopping spectacle. I’m fine with that, but some would maybe say it reduces the quality of the game for the spectators.

(warbie) #18

I don’t think anyone wants jumping to be effective in combat. It certainly wasn’t in RTCW/ET. I’m ok with the shotgun being used in this way tho. Strafe jumping to get around is all good.

(iwound) #19

can i just throw this into the mix as no-one has mentioned it.
weapon size and weight affect on movement speed. from the heaviest, largest soldier weapon down to a knife.
weapons - heavy medium and lights
lights being pistol and knife
throw in class speeds.

heaviest
soldier
field-ops
engineer
medic
covert
Lightest

im not sure how it was in et and etqw but id lke a difference in weight in the 5 classes and 3 weapons groups as above.
the less powerful the more maneuverability.

so for example the knife should be less powerful and a 1 shot death kill should only be in the back and at very very close distance. so close you can feel their breath on your neck. infact when that happens draw the breath on one side as a hint your about to become dead.

but to be able to get that close you need fast movement but be very weak if spotted. so the covert machine pistol should be the weakest of the mediums.

its a better definition of the class. there’s a reason coverts are skinny. its better for running away. :slight_smile:

(warbie) #20

I’d like to echo this.