Because I don’t just disagree with you I genuinely dislike your opinions and I’m tired of singing the same tune to a stubborn wall. So no need in repeating myself.
(Feature request) Autobalancing
sneak1
(sneak)
#22
[quote=“Enzo;113668”]Another balancing post.
For now if you’re a high level and have a very high K/D this game will just make you carry. Every game is a carry and after you lose a few times finally you might get lucky and win one.
Now if you play every game like a carry you can win but be prepared to basically do it alone or if you’re lucky another guy. I’ve seen this game go out of it’s way and stack players against me in such a fashion I see the matchmaking and I know it’s gonna be a pubstomp.
To test this theory I’ve played 5 min of the game and the team cannot force a pubstomp. Now the moment I spectate GG all hell breaks lose and they camp the team. I come out of spectate bam they’re pushed back.
Funny thing is this can be replicated so easily. Nowadays I just let the matchmaking balance me and my friends on opposite sides (because they still don’t have party feature) then either he switches out or I do and we just stack and roll teams and watch them hate the game and us.
So either just stack or let your friend stack or ask him to give up his spot and stack. I’m pretty much hated on the Asian server for this but hey I can care less when you give me people who look up into the sky and walls then play the game.
I told Splash Damage two can play this game. So go ahead make my day. To those crying I’m sorry but I’m not playing every game with level 3, 5, 6, 12, 8 vs 23, 32, 18, 15, 5, 7[/quote]
It’s true about having alot of bad players on your team sometimes but level doesn’t mean a thing. Even in my first five levels I was outplaying level 40+ players and getting accused of cheating and I know I’m not the only person. I’ve seen some real good low level players and some real bad higher level players. I can’t believe you haven’t noticed this O_O.
watsyurdeal
(watsyurdeal)
#23
[quote=“Lumi;113848”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;113831”]Personally I don’t think pubs need any sort of level or rank, it’s a fucking pub guys, you don’t go to bar and expect everyone to be a specific type of person or of some sort of score for how hot they are, it’s a casual environment. Let people play, and more so let people play with their buddies or a solo only server.
[/quote]
In your bar metaphor, your success at getting laid at the end of the night doesn’t usually depend on the success of the other random people. You’re responsible for your own success and if you get crushed all night it’s your own fault, but in DB if you get stomped, that can be imbued to your random allies being performing on a sub par level to the opponent team. Going back to your metaphor, you would have to be a group of people convincing another group of people. At this point it starts mattering how your peers are performing, because it reflects on your reward and on how the night will go for you…[/quote]
Yes, and if we go back to my metaphor, and compare to something like a game of Football, what is the obvious difference here?
One is meant to be a casual fun environment, while the other is more serious and competitive, and this is where you and everyone else constantly get confused, and I do mean constantly.
In pubs there is NO extra reward for winning, except that it’s not fun, and there is literally jack squat some magical algorithm can do about that because of the simple fact you’re playing with people whose motivations differ from person to person. Some people are playing to try out a merc, some are playing for missions, some just flat out do not care, and some are new players. And we could go on an on, the fact is you CAN NOT force a pub server to play like a competitve environment. All Splash Damage can do is make a better tutorial to show people the ropes, but ultimately it’s purely up to them.
Plus, that doesn’t even account for the other factors, the player’s state of mind, number of players, the MAPS, etc.
If you want truly balanced games, play competitive, because that is where Dirty Bomb is at it’s best imo. 5v5, real small teams and forced coordinated play. And people are matched based on rank and people in their party if there is one, and every game I’ve played in comp so far has been pretty damn reasonable, we won and lost for reasons that were perfectly clear to me.
And before you say “well nobody plays comp”, find me a way to solve that problem. And for pubs, how do you keep matches balanced and fun for everyone? Split up friends? Why? A random player with a mic starts communicating and his team follows, vs a team who has zero communication, should we penalize him? How about the team with terrible composition? Do you force people to play a certain merc or class if there are too many or not enough?
You’re wanting a solution to a problem that simply is impossible to solve, and for the wrong environment, it’s just that simple. You’re not arguing with a wall so much as throwing spitballs and hoping you get something out of it.
Lumi
(Lumi)
#24
So we both agree that we need an environment that allows for both serious play, without the ridiculous leaving and Stopwatch mode only restrictions?
watsyurdeal
(watsyurdeal)
#25
No, Stopwatch is the only game mode that works for Competitve. Objective is one round, Stopwatch is two, giving both teams a chance to prove their worth.
And as far as leaving goes, if people leave cause they’re getting whooped, they have the surrender option, and games won’t get much more balanced until Splash gives people an incentive to play it over normal play.
Adding Execution or Objective would not solve that, cause both those game modes are trash.
Lumi
(Lumi)
#26
I never talked about comp, did I? I just meant somewhere where we can play seriously, a.k.a. not expect to have noobs and balancing issues, while not having to play stopwatch, nor stay in a match at the risk of getting a penalty. There is no mode like that currently.
And just for the record, Execution would work well in comp. I mean it’s not like CS has proven anything at all, right?
Ctrix
(Ctrix)
#27
You realise pub game is short for public and in no way related to a pub, right?
Because that analogy is terrible.
What does this even mean? You make no sense guy.
Find me a way to solve that problem? How about fuck yourself. Why would we care about your preferences. We want fun pub games, not a cure for cancer.
watsyurdeal
(watsyurdeal)
#28
Well unfortunately you won’t get that in a public server, sorry, it’s just the nature of things. Until they have community ran servers this is how it’s going to be, trying to force everyone to play seriously is just going to make what little community we have frustrated. A better tutorial would at least solve most issues.
And Counter Strike proves EXACTLY why Execution is absolute trash. In Counter Strike you have an economy, every kill matters, every death means you lose a gun, every buy means you have a certain amount of power, and every save means insurance for the next round in case things go south.
Counter Strike works purely because of that, there’s a ton of strategy and thought in the game purely because of that system, which Dirty Bomb does not have.
Execution fails because EVERYONE starts with their abilities at the ready, and they recharge over time, making the games devolve into a death match. It all comes down to who can kill and gib everyone else more quickly, there’s no risk or sacrifices involved. And saying you have only one life doesn’t mean anything, you’re essentially just getting benched for the next round.
If execution even wants to TRY to hold a candle to Counter Strike, there needs to be an economy, like your team has a certain amount of cash used to hire a merc for that round. As well as changes to how cooldowns work so everytime you use an ability it’s a meaningful choice for team.
All that effort spent on Execution when we could have had a KOTH or CTF game mode instead.
A public server is never going to be truly fun for everyone due to the nature that anyone can hop in and out, regardless of how long they play.
That’s what my pub analogy was going for, it’s meant to be a place for everyone to go to and hangout. Not so much take things so seriously, or maybe it means something different elsewhere. Bar and Pub are roughly the same thing here in America at least.
If you want fun public games, the only thing you can do really is to play with people you know instead of playing with random people. But again, that’s the nature of the beast, you’re always going to have the players who are way too good or not good enough to play with.
Ctrix
(Ctrix)
#29
Hey, can you please stop spaming this thread with fatalism? Your posts are a huge waste of space. All you’re saying is “Nothing could ever be improved” "We need to do it ourselves because " “This other game does a thing that’s completely irrelevant” “”
Nobody cares about your ultra competitive game design wants. We want working matchmaking and team balance. That is literally disconnected from competitive things. There’s zero crossover. Just leave the thread.
watsyurdeal
(watsyurdeal)
#30
[quote=“Ctrix;114118”]Hey, can you please stop spaming this thread with fatalism? Your posts are a huge waste of space. All you’re saying is “Nothing could ever be improved” "We need to do it ourselves because " “This other game does a thing that’s completely irrelevant” “”
Nobody cares about your ultra competitive game design wants. We want working matchmaking and team balance. That is literally disconnected from competitive things. There’s zero crossover. Just leave the thread.[/quote]
If it were that simple then it would have been done by now, but clearly it isn’t.
Because every attempt to “balance” a pub will piss off people who’s idea of fun is playing with their friends, not against them on a consistent basis. And there’s certain things that an arbitrary value can not account for.
If anything your posts are a waste of space, not mine, you talk a lot of s%$# but offer nothing to discuss or any solutions.
Litego
(Litego)
#31
[quote=“Lumi;114107”]@Watsyurdeal
I never talked about comp, did I? I just meant somewhere where we can play seriously, a.k.a. not expect to have noobs and balancing issues, while not having to play stopwatch, nor stay in a match at the risk of getting a penalty. There is no mode like that currently.[/quote]
Because you’re basically asking for what we have now in pubs. The only difference being that it filters out the noobs. You’d still have major balancing issues because people are free to come and go as they please.
Nah, they just need to make comp good.
Oh, and balancing by levels is an absolutely awful idea! Truly horrid! Gives me the shivers.
Lumi
(Lumi)
#32
[quote=“Watsyurdeal;114114”]@Lumi
If execution even wants to TRY to hold a candle to Counter Strike, there needs to be an economy, like your team has a certain amount of cash used to hire a merc for that round. As well as changes to how cooldowns work so everytime you use an ability it’s a meaningful choice for team.
.[/quote]
That would be an awesome change, yet it would imply that much more players would be at a loss for how to play the game. Then again, who would play Stopwatch and Objective if you could buy mercs in execution and play them without having to buy them in the menu? Unless you’d lock execution off to only those who own all the mercs, but that would be nonsense…
Amerika
(Amerika)
#33
Because I don’t just disagree with you I genuinely dislike your opinions and I’m tired of singing the same tune to a stubborn wall. So no need in repeating myself.[/quote]
@Lumi Maybe if you would stop peddling a horrible idea, start explaining your viewpoint sufficiently, stop being passive-aggressive to everyone and knew what words like bias actually means you’d not have that issue.
Enzo
(Enzo)
#34
[quote=“sneak;113997”][quote=“Enzo;113668”]Another balancing post.
For now if you’re a high level and have a very high K/D this game will just make you carry. Every game is a carry and after you lose a few times finally you might get lucky and win one.
Now if you play every game like a carry you can win but be prepared to basically do it alone or if you’re lucky another guy. I’ve seen this game go out of it’s way and stack players against me in such a fashion I see the matchmaking and I know it’s gonna be a pubstomp.
To test this theory I’ve played 5 min of the game and the team cannot force a pubstomp. Now the moment I spectate GG all hell breaks lose and they camp the team. I come out of spectate bam they’re pushed back.
Funny thing is this can be replicated so easily. Nowadays I just let the matchmaking balance me and my friends on opposite sides (because they still don’t have party feature) then either he switches out or I do and we just stack and roll teams and watch them hate the game and us.
So either just stack or let your friend stack or ask him to give up his spot and stack. I’m pretty much hated on the Asian server for this but hey I can care less when you give me people who look up into the sky and walls then play the game.
I told Splash Damage two can play this game. So go ahead make my day. To those crying I’m sorry but I’m not playing every game with level 3, 5, 6, 12, 8 vs 23, 32, 18, 15, 5, 7[/quote]
It’s true about having alot of bad players on your team sometimes but level doesn’t mean a thing. Even in my first five levels I was outplaying level 40+ players and getting accused of cheating and I know I’m not the only person. I’ve seen some real good low level players and some real bad higher level players. I can’t believe you haven’t noticed this O_O.
[/quote]
It’s simple come to Asia let me show you. I’m on nearly the whole day on Saturday and Sunday.
No need to discuss so much. Let me show you.
There is nothing to discuss when near every game I can nearly call out if we are going to win or lose based on players. Remember this Asia pool is small I basically know every player just by seeing their name to see if this game is going to be carry or a steam roll or by chance balanced.
As I said to all people that want autobalance just stack or sit out a game and join another server. I do this but don’t endorse it whereby my friend or me sits out a game by giving a spot on the stacked team.
Just be patient Splash Damage as we have been told by various forumers who are in the know said they are working on a “FIX”. So don’t worry everything will work well soon how soon god only knows. Till then enjoy the rape I dish out!
Ctrix
(Ctrix)
#35
Because I don’t just disagree with you I genuinely dislike your opinions and I’m tired of singing the same tune to a stubborn wall. So no need in repeating myself.[/quote]
@Lumi Maybe if you would stop peddling a horrible idea, start explaining your viewpoint sufficiently, stopped being passive-aggressive to everyone and knew what words like bias actually means you’d not have that issue.[/quote]
I can’t flag a moderators post, but I just wanted to let you know you’re being inciting.
I’d love to tell you what I think about it, but I should probably not.
What_A_Noob
(What A Noob)
#36
[quote=“Litego;114132”][quote=“Lumi;114107”]@Watsyurdeal
I never talked about comp, did I? I just meant somewhere where we can play seriously, a.k.a. not expect to have noobs and balancing issues, while not having to play stopwatch, nor stay in a match at the risk of getting a penalty. There is no mode like that currently.[/quote]
Because you’re basically asking for what we have now in pubs. The only difference being that it filters out the noobs. You’d still have major balancing issues because people are free to come and go as they please.
Nah, they just need to make comp good.
Oh, and balancing by levels is an absolutely awful idea! Truly horrid! Gives me the shivers.[/quote]
This, it needs to be based on more then levels, probably how good you do in a match, like assists you get, kills, deaths, etc. I don’t know how CS:GO does it, but their ranking system used to be good from what I heard but now it’s pretty shit when you make it to LMG, or something like that. (Or MG, I forgot.)
Lumi
(Lumi)
#37
Now I don’t know when this happened, but I never asked for balancing according to levels, in case people think that’s what I want.
Szakalot
(Szakalot)
#38
Amerika is right though, the only way balancing on pubs is going to work is if people are funneled into appropriate skill groups.
There is just no system possible to balance a game where at any point either a lvl 5 or a tryhard closed-beta lvl 50+ veteran can leave/join. The game balance can completely break based off one player. Naturally, I used the levels to dramatize the point, there may very well be a lvl 12 stomper, and a lvl50 noob.
Nevertheless there is a clear difference between a lvl1-10, 10-20 and 20+
The first 10levels is barely enough time to learn about the mercs, maps, weapons&movement; even a good player will struggle to grasp all that against a veteran who had all the time in the world to learn the appropriate metas and counters, even if veteran has subpar aim.
Yes, levels don’t count, in the sense that a lvl15 and lvl25 could have all kinds of skill levels, but imo 1-5; 1-10 and 10+ are obvious skill groups. When was the last time you saw a lvl5 player who absolutely reks them lvl 15s?
3N1GM4
(3N1GM4)
#39
Last night when, what I’m pretty sure was, a group of smurfs invaded a server I was in… unless backward names is the cool thing to do.
They were more than likely trying to get MM unlocked so they can go stomp in a “fair” setting lol.
watsyurdeal
(watsyurdeal)
#40
We only need 3 server types
- Proving Grounds (Max Level 10)
- Min Level 11, parties allowed
- Min Level 11, solos only
That should cover most of everything, keeps new players from playing with vets and keeps parties away from solo players who refuse to play with friends.