Evaczone: Dirtybomb Competitive Cup!

(enchantingComet) #41

[quote=“Zenity;11809”][quote=“Paladin;11800”][quote=“fubar;11797”]I don’t even get the dilemma people seem to have over the no merc limit. A team of 5 fraggers isn’t going to get anything done, neither are 5 skyhammers, or anything else. While I agree fragger should be limited to 1, the other mercs are perfectly fine. Skyhammer has a freaking 1 minute cooldown on the airstrike, it’s not like it’d be a gamebreaking mechanic. We have Airstrikes and Artillery with 30 seconds cooldowns in ET, in RtCW even less, not to mention the full charge you get by killing out.
Class limitations, as of right now, is the least of our worries in terms of competitive viability. Augments and loadouts are. Spawntimes are. Map designs are. No friendly fire is. The fact that I can see your merc loadout and what classes you are by a simple press upon TAB is. The revive-/spawn shields need a major rework. There are so many things, way, way more important and in dire need of redesign as opposed to a silly merc rule for this game to be truly competitively viable.

Also I wonder, is that date a coincidence, potty? :P[/quote]

the argument here isnt if the game is competitively viable, its that there is now a tournament being run with no limitations on loadout/mercs, meaning a team could pull off really cheap strats like 4 aura’s and 1 proxy on defense in underground, or 2 skyhammers/artys with 3 aura’s on def on chapel… it would make the game less fun to play imo, and people may as well just join a 5v5 pub to get the same experience.[/quote]

Then try it. This is exactly what we need to get some clear answers as to the state of the game’s balance. If we see a tactic like that dominating the tournament, this will be extremely useful information. If it’s less fun, then so be it. There will be many more tournaments to come.

Right now the game is not designed with a class limit. If it turns out to be necessary in the end, then the game should have first class support for it implemented (which is tricky since you can switch between three mercs). But first I assume that efforts will be made to achieve the sort of balance that requires a healthy mix of mercs to succeed.[/quote]

how can balance be achieved when everyone flocks to a small set of mercs, giving no value or testing to the underused mercs?
you are putting to little regard into first impressions, and if this tournament flops you will turn away a chunk of the competitive player base.
not to mention the in game chat will be akin to a one sided pub match (rage)

while i do see the dilemma in that the game has no option to force limitations, that doesn’t mean it isn’t possible.

I think you making a huge mistake.
I’ve voiced my opinion, and based on this thread my opinion is shared and valid, so don’t be like a bad set of admins and tell us to like it or lump it.
I leave the ball in your court.

(Rex) #42

[quote=“irisRenegade;11798”]Stop complaining before even trying it.

This is the kind of event that can help SD sort out balancing and restrictions for general and competitive play.[/quote]

Hahaha XD. Oh dear, I can’t blame you for being new.

Yeah super pointless, I wonder how we played with those awful restrictions back then…

(fubar) #43

[quote=“Paladin;11821”]
how can balance be achieved when everyone flocks to a small set of mercs, giving no value or testing to the underused mercs?[/quote]

Or, you know. People deem said mercs utterly useless and worthless because of existing balancing issues? We’re not playing them because they’re unbalanced, forcing us to play them wont make a difference. Us not using them - ever, has the same affect as us complaining about them. See dota/dota2/HoN/LoL as reference. Devs aren’t stupid, if they notice unpopularity they’ll reckon there is an issue.

[quote=“Paladin;11821”]you are putting to little regard into first impressions, and if this tournament flops you will turn away a chunk of the competitive player base.
not to mention the in game chat will be akin to a one sided pub match (rage)[/quote]

No. This game has been “accessible” for near to 3(?) years now. People have stated their opinions countless of times on the alpha and other beta forums. If SD decides to act on it, is entirely up to them. Thus far they’ve been “prioritizing” different things. Competitive players wont quit, are you delusional? If at all we’d quit for being forced onto a useless merc with a useless loadout that, above all, people don’t even seem to enjoy to play.

There will be limitations, whether SD agrees or not. If this game ever has a competitive community, it’ll make up its own rules as it goes. But a 1 merc limit? Very, very unlikely to ever happen. A restriction on heavy weapons, loadout cards not being allowed or even entire mercs being banned, most probably. But entire classes being limited? Never. You’re essentially implying a Nader or Fragger could never be in the same team. Neither could Aura or Sawbonez or Arty. A equivalent to ETs heavy weapons is more like. ie: 1 Fragger, 1 Nader per team. This would apply to specific mercs/classes and not be a global thing. I don’t ever see Aura being limited to 1 merc, or Sawbonez, or Vassili, or Proxy or even Skyhammer for that matter. They’re easily countered and dealt with. As the cup is very likely to show. Stackings mercs will not win games.

(enchantingComet) #44

[quote=“fubar;11851”][quote=“Paladin;11821”]
how can balance be achieved when everyone flocks to a small set of mercs, giving no value or testing to the underused mercs?[/quote]

Or, you know. People deem said mercs utterly useless and worthless because of existing balancing issues? We’re not playing them because they’re unbalanced, forcing us to play them wont make a difference. Us not using them - ever, has the same affect as us complaining about them. See dota/dota2/HoN/LoL as reference. Devs aren’t stupid, if they notice unpopularity they’ll reckon there is an issue.

[quote=“Paladin;11821”]you are putting to little regard into first impressions, and if this tournament flops you will turn away a chunk of the competitive player base.
not to mention the in game chat will be akin to a one sided pub match (rage)[/quote]

No. This game has been “accessible” for near to 3(?) years now. People have stated their opinions countless of times on the alpha and other beta forums. If SD decides to act on it, is entirely up to them. Thus far they’ve been “prioritizing” different things. Competitive players wont quit, are you delusional? If at all we’d quit for being forced onto a useless merc with a useless loadout that, above all, people don’t even seem to enjoy to play.

There will be limitations, whether SD agrees or not. If this game ever has a competitive community, it’ll make up its own rules as it goes. But a 1 merc limit? Very, very unlikely to ever happen. A restriction on heavy weapons, loadout cards not being allowed or even entire mercs being banned, most probably. But entire classes being limited? Never. You’re essentially implying a Nader or Fragger could never be in the same team. Neither could Aura or Sawbonez or Arty. A equivalent to ETs heavy weapons is more like. ie: 1 Fragger, 1 Nader per team. This would apply to specific mercs/classes and not be a global thing. I don’t ever see Aura being limited to 1 merc, or Sawbonez, or Vassili, or Proxy or even Skyhammer for that matter. They’re easily countered and dealt with. As the cup is very likely to show. Stackings mercs will not win games. [/quote]

using moba’s as a comparison for this kind of game isnt the best choice but i do see your point, i just think it puts a dirty smudge on the start of the competitive dirty bomb scene.

your point about the game being accessible over the last 3 years is pushing it, considering the game has been under scheduled testing for 3 years doesn’t give it enough time on the ground to have a proper tournament or for a competitive scene to emerge, and its only now that we have the oppertunity to have these tournament because its an always online service.

We didnt really have a solid discussion around what should be the starting point for the dirty bomb comp format and this feels a little rushed.

you misinterpreted my implication but that point is now mute.

i guess we will just have to wait and see how this pans out.
for a dev team that boasted clan play and their history playing comp fps you would think the game would be more ready for tournaments.

edit: i just noticed the post i quoted was your current one, but when i submitted it there’s a bunch more about your last point… weird.

(fubar) #45

[quote=“Paladin;11856”]

using moba’s as a comparison for this kind of game isnt the best choice but i do see your point, i just think it puts a dirty smudge on the start of the competitive dirty bomb scene.

your point about the game being accessible over the last 3 years is pushing it, considering the game has been under scheduled testing for 3 years doesn’t give it enough time on the ground to have a proper tournament or for a competitive scene to emerge, and its only now that we have the oppertunity to have these tournament because its an always online service.

We didnt really have a solid discussion around what should be the starting point for the dirty bomb comp format and this feels a little rushed.

you misinterpreted my implication but that point is now mute.

i guess we will just have to wait and see how this pans out.
for a dev team that boasted clan play and their history playing comp fps you would think the game would be more ready for tournaments.

edit: i just noticed the post i quoted was your current one, but when i submitted it there’s a bunch more about your last point… weird.[/quote]

Why wouldn’t we use mobas as comparison? SD specifically titles this a “moba FPS” game, and they’ve publicly stated to want to combine the two.

The game has been accessible for 3 years and it’s had tournaments with prize pools, hosted by potty and evaczone. As well as various other cups.

I agree entirely with SDs lack in the department of proper competitive support for this game. Not only that, but they’re merely using it as a title to attract, if anything. Nothing about this game in its current state is truly “competitive”. Which is a shame really. Especially considering any and all suggestions/recommendations/opinions they get on the matter is being dismissed and instead we get luxurious features such as… bastardizations of the stopwatch system, nades being removed, spread being lowered, friendly fire turned off in their very own match making system? :smiley: That one takes the cake really.

(Rhyno) #46

Is this really going to be hosted on EU servers only?

Edit: Just read it in the OP. That’s hilarious.

(sleeepy) #47

[quote=“Rhyno;11859”]Is this really going to be hosted on EU servers only?

Edit: Just read it in the OP. That’s hilarious. [/quote]

Playing on EU isn’t so bad in DB in my experience. Or at least not as bad as CS.

(ToonBE) #48

[quote=“adeto;11594”]GL, avi for this

Hope SD introduces some (cvar) restrictions soon though, the loadout cards aren’t even that big a deal if there are some restrictions for competitive play. ‘ETPro class system’ would be an idea. Don’t need a 1 merc rule but at least like a 1 heavy max and 2 assault max would be a good start. Also making sure people can’t abuse these insane FPS configs that remove things like tree leafs etc is a must(rivatuner much?)[/quote]

Not really agree on this, cause it is mainly used for getting stable frames… Restricting this means giving an advantage to those with good PC set up. Also the game is soo fast it doesnt really matter… In my oppinion visibility is better on high settings so a modified texture cfg has disadvantages aswell. You can not use the advantage of seeing shadows, colors are more grey so harder to see enemies in some occasions, you cannot see bullet impacts so again harder to see where someone is shooting from. I would love to play high settins at 144frames and 144hz but it is just not possible… In my case I even need it to get 60frames stable(only have 60hz screen so…) I won’t be able to play with cvar restrictions.

High settings = best
modified = necessary

(ToonBE) #49

[quote=“fragon;11782”]what about the servers?
we have some locked servers for the cup? cuz i think “searching MM in same time” wont work in the cup :expressionless: [/quote]

do you read?:stuck_out_tongue:

(Shackahn) #50

It seems to me that people are split, some are happy to see how the no merc restrictions work out and others want a merc restriction from the word go.

Unfortunately we can’t have both. I don’t think we are going to turn away any competitive players doing it this way,me specially if we schedule another cup for a months time with say a 1 merc restriction. It is important to see how the no restriction rule works even if it’s not the most desirable option.

Not only is that information important for SD but it’s important for getting the competitive scene right as a whole. Should the scene grow then we can look back with an actual test and state what did and didn’t work, rather than here say and guess work.

Why don’t you get involved with a team and prove why it doesn’t work? If you think running 5 Aura’s will ruin. A competitive match then sign up and show us. Right now all we have are opinions on how we think it will work.

(potty1) #51

To clear a few things up for you upset people.

Evaczone has always done cups in europe. Don’t like it? Host your own cup.

Merc limits were forced last cup and everyone cried about it. Because of the cry babies last time there won’t be merc limits. Can please all you people who need a cleanex everytime a cup is announced.

Oxy, the date was picked due to me ending my old job and starting a new around that time. I don’t consider et any competition for dirtybomb these days. Et is long dead.

(artfulSedan) #52

uhm how is a 1 merc rule supposed to work guys? Everyone has 3 mercs to choose from with 4 people per team we would need 12 different mercs for that to work. And i don’t get why everyone hates fragger… he is not that great of a merc. He is decent in defending stuff but i thing skyhamemr and arty are better for that soooo yeah what’s all the fuzz about

(diamondTortoise) #53

Im not going to take part because im so bad at this game xD
But will it be livestreamed on twitch?

(potty1) #54

People always know best. It gives them a reason to complain about something. I have learnt that people on the internet are only capable of using half their brain, see talespins comment raging about something he can control if he put the time and effort in.

The merc system is broken right now. This is why I am enforcing no limits to prove to SD they are wrong about augments and certain mercs being more useful than others. It is also a way to see why we need mercs being released sooner rather than later. Some people, the ones using half their brain, forget this is a closed beta TEST. - I highlighted the bit people seem to forget :wink:

(potty1) #55

[quote=“diamondTortoise;11885”]Im not going to take part because im so bad at this game xD
But will it be livestreamed on twitch?[/quote]

@diamondTortoise the plan is to have a live stream going. More info to follow on that. I think I might sit this cup out to be more focused on twitching and admining :frowning:

(Kroad) #56

everyone’s complaining about the one merc rule but here’s another one i disagree with

different maps call for different mercs, and it doesn’t take more than 30 secs to change map.

(fubar) #57

[quote=“Kroad;11944”]everyone’s complaining about the one merc rule but here’s another one i disagree with

different maps call for different mercs, and it doesn’t take more than 30 secs to change map.[/quote]

This is bullshit indeed. Different maps require different mercs.

(ToonBE) #58

Why so many whine about the rules? Be happy evac is even taking the initiative to present us with a cup.

(Fana) #59

This. Most of the replies in this thread are essentially the internet version of a child throwing a temper tantrum because he got strawberry ice cream instead of chocolate.

(Kroad) #60

Doesn’t mean we can’t disagree with the rules.
I’ll happily play in the cup even if that rule stays in place (I’m fine with no one merc rule for now), doesn’t mean I’m not allowed to say that I think it would be better if a certain rule was changed.

It’s like saying that people shouldn’t complain about balance because the devs took the initiative to make the game. It’s in the devs best interest to make their game as good as possible, and likewise for evac’s cup.