Et: Xreal

daz2007 · 2011-05-21 16:05:21 UTC

can’t build the latest Version, they are hundreds of Link Errors

harry-sachz · 2011-05-21 20:33:39 UTC

I must teach you something. His project is different then Tr3B’s. Tr3B is original coder and he started ET:XreaL. So far how I know, he is still coding it. I really think that you dont know what you are talking in post up, because IF you really looked projects, you would know that there is MUCH differences between Dushan’s (now called OpenWolf) and Tr3B’s (ET:XreaL) project. Tr3B is updating/merging only renderer engine, while Dushan is merging all code. At least you can learn or ask Tr3B or Dushan (or anybody else) what are or is difference between that two projects.
And for your answer, he cannot STEAL, he created fork of Tr3B’s project and contined coding for time when Tr3B “was missing”.

So far how I know and watching all XreaL scene, Tr3B have continue coding XreaL.

I understand that he cannot create something that is not created before and already listed on GPL v2 or any other license. And if it is compatible I dont know any valid reason why not to use that. You know nobody can reinvent wheel. About mergning features to answer to your question, I can tell you only one thing why ioQuake3 community didnt merged their renderer engine with XreaL project. For that there are several reasons. - Its to buggy, and how I know, they are working on their own update. I dont know what is your problem with features what Dushan added in OpenWolf. For me its OK if they are WORKING and they are COMPLETED.
Personally I as server admin and game player, would like to see Newton physics (dont know what else project have that, but OK you know best), MySQL feature…(In talkin with him, he wanted to do something like Racesow/Warsow did in QFusion engine). I dont know other major features in his project.

Its ambitious project you must say that. Can he finish that? that is question. But ET:XreaL is too buggy at moment and I understand reason why at this time he want to ditch it.

But before you all flame and start trolling, wait and see what would be FINAL result. If it is scr*wed or *****ed up, I will be first who will troll against him with much anger.

n00btime · 2011-05-22 01:37:18 UTC

[QUOTE=Shownie;318472]Something negative? Man they are like releasing hell on this dude, I see no fair point…

Well maybe I wouldn’t abandom just like that, but I would for sure not have the motivation to keep doing something for a community when treated like this o___O[/QUOTE]

In my defense, only aaa4 actually said anything truly negative. I have to point out some other things though. While it is indeed impossible to “steal” code and all of this stuff is licensed under the GPL (or a GPL compatible license, as far as the libraries go), quite a bit of code has been silently merged/spliced in from other projects without acknowledgement (OSP’s multiview, OpenAL and IPv6 from ioQuake). Why legally fine (I think, IANALL), it’s a good way to make people mad at you.

You guys also have to remember that Tr3b isn’t developing a renderer for ET. He’s developing a renderer for which ET was a convenient code base. The reason it appears “buggy” is because the only lens you see it through is the maps and models designed/textures/compiled for the vanilla renderer. To make everything polished, you need level designers and texture and model artists, things (I assume) Tr3b is not. There’s nothing wrong with that. It’s the nature of open source development. He needs a code base, people who like ET would like it to look a little fancier: everyone wins.

To Dushan, I humbly submit the opinion that you might be approaching things too much like an application programmer. All the MySQL, PHP, and authentication stuff is highly game-specific. A lot of it won’t be relevant and/or reusable for a lot of games. It would be better to lay a more coherent framework for people to code on top of. Also focus on gamers first, administrators second, then programmers (and I’m wearing the hat of the third category right now). Gamers’ eyes will probably widen when they see the big list of features an engine has, but they really want it to be fast, look and sound cool, and be stable. Server administrators have been living in the land of text files for years, so a simple GUI or even a cleaner text frontend would make them smile. Lastly, programmers are logically-oriented, and a clean and documented API makes them feel more at home than anything else.

To anyone else reading this, bashing Dushan, his project, or its methodology is pretty unhelpful and even a bit rude. Disagree constructively

Dushan · 2011-05-26 15:47:08 UTC

n00btime opinion noted
But I really dont see any point of trolling or attacking anybody. You still have ET:XreaL
At least for me, you can learn few stuff before you say anything. But OK, you learn as you go

There is reason for me to stop using pure port of XreaL and fork of ET-XreaL engine is because several months ago I told Robert that I have problems with his engine in that called XreaL-ET, and he told me that “its not my problem, not my project”. And I was reporting renderer problems to him at that time.
So what else to do? Best way was that I start to update ET renderer with small steps and have full view of it.

Personally I do this for my own pleasure :). So better to know that :). I don’t take this personal. Somebody asked me what is my goal with now called OpenWolf project … its is to modernize the Enemy Territory engine (but I think that is obviously) and to bring it new life in 2011 year.

This is my latest work before I start porting VBO/GLSL feature from XreaL to vanilla ET renderer.

I have fixed SMP feature in ET. Now we can put renderer in one thread and the rest of the game in another.

Tr3B · 2011-05-26 22:18:40 UTC

Maybe you should just try r_vboVertexSkinning 0 because of your crappy ATI card. I have a Radeon HD 5670 for testing and I have no problems to play with 17 fritzbots in 1680x1050. The ATI OpenGL driver is crap. The performance is really poor compared to the Nvidia driver and it is especially amazing how the performance goes to hell if you move the skeletal animation part to the GPU. The current ETXreaL.exe is faster than the ET.exe for me despite the fact that the per-pixel lighting system requires more calculations.

n00btime · 2011-05-27 01:31:51 UTC

Same for me (without the HDR pipeline of course) and I’m using an Nvidia 9600M GT. I know people who have spent a lot of time in the FOSS Linux drivers for ATI and the design specs they have are just a mess. Sure they’re cheaper but…

It’ll be interesting to see what SMP support for the renderer can do. I haven’t looked too much at the code base for the XreaL renderer, so I don’t know how much is CPU bound. I think all of the matrix math is done in software. A ton of the code is not reentrant, static buffers everywhere. Maybe it’ll pan out though. Keep us posted.

Dragnadh · 2011-05-28 12:20:33 UTC

[QUOTE=Dushan;324529]n00btime opinion noted
But I really dont see any point of trolling or attacking anybody. You still have ET:XreaL
At least for me, you can learn few stuff before you say anything. But OK, you learn as you go

There is reason for me to stop using pure port of XreaL and fork of ET-XreaL engine is because several months ago I told Robert that I have problems with his engine in that called XreaL-ET, and he told me that “its not my problem, not my project”. And I was reporting renderer problems to him at that time.
So what else to do? Best way was that I start to update ET renderer with small steps and have full view of it.

Personally I do this for my own pleasure :). So better to know that :). I don’t take this personal. Somebody asked me what is my goal with now called OpenWolf project … its is to modernize the Enemy Territory engine (but I think that is obviously) and to bring it new life in 2011 year.

This is my latest work before I start porting VBO/GLSL feature from XreaL to vanilla ET renderer.

I have fixed SMP feature in ET. Now we can put renderer in one thread and the rest of the game in another.

[/QUOTE]

Liking the dual processor acc.

Dushan · 2011-05-28 15:17:26 UTC

This is my latest work at this moment…

I have managed to make SMP working in XreaL build

EDIT: added one more photo
EDIT #2: one more

lamps · 2011-05-30 15:34:00 UTC

Following the project with much interest. Thanks.

Dushan · 2011-05-30 15:55:41 UTC

Unlocked BSP version format to 46. Now its possible to have both versions 46 (Q3A) and 47/48? (ET)

In my build there are missing shaders/textures and spawn function.

I have tried 3 maps, map-charon3dm666, Deadsphere and map-yurch. all working but with shaders/texture problems.

I also tried some other Q3A/Urban Terror/Tremulous/RTCW maps. Game crash at memset.asm forgot line where.
But its possible to fix all problems

Dushan · 2011-05-31 22:10:42 UTC

Little update …

I have changed some static libraries in Enemy Territory to dynamic. Game now need for loading zlib1.dll, libpng12.dll and glew32.dll along with standard (renderergl.dll, and game specifics cgame_mp_x86, qagame_mp_x86 and ui_mp_x86).

Personally I really like dynamic libraries in any project. Library does not become part of your application, it remains as a separate unit. Now we can simply change/upgrade dynamic library into new version without replacing much code in application. (I tested that with zlib1.dll version 1.2.3 and one what we use new 1.2.5). Just to say, I test only on local network, not on dedicated internet server … But so far I didnt find any there in testing.
Version at pictures and in code are hard-cored, so it dont read version number from dynamic library - soon I will change that also.

And soon I will change calling of OpenGL and GLSL modules and files only at game initialization/start-up. Really don’t see any point of having it initialized on every /vid_restart with cgame module. I believe that approach would be better then current one, what we have now (game need about 10-16 seconds to recompile all GLSL shaders and that is pretty annoying).

About Newton physics … server support is there, only thing what is missing is game core. Personally for using that in your mod files, I believe that you need to open source your mod, because all code in ET are GPL based and you cannot mix it ( I may be wrong there, but am not sure )…
And I dont believe that some of modders/teams want to do that …

But I can documented where and what you need to add to have full Newton physics support in your mod if anybody want that of course …

Shownie · 2011-05-31 23:01:41 UTC

Newton physics

Will it also change the way objects in maps and so are affected? And what does it affect now?

n00btime · 2011-06-02 07:56:14 UTC

[QUOTE=Dushan;329739]Personally for using that in your mod files, I believe that you need to open source your mod, because all code in ET are GPL based and you cannot mix it ( I may be wrong there, but am not sure )…
And I dont believe that some of modders/teams want to do that …
[/QUOTE]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_General_Public_License#Linking_and_derived_works

The Q3 architecture happens to use dynamic libraries for the game modules, but the game modules are specifically designed to call into the Quake engine and nothing else. It’s kind of a reverse on the normal situation, where the libraries almost exclusively call into the binary and the binary makes a callback here and there. I’m not a license lawyer, but I’d say (pretty confidently) that any game written using the GPL’d engine is a derivative work and has to be licensed under the GPL as well.

Dushan · 2011-06-02 22:57:45 UTC

This is my latest work so far. I have started to rewrite broken sound in OpenWolf and changed OpenAL feature in separated plugin “snd_openal.dll”. (You still need openal installed to use it)

Test build is working with many missing sounds, but so far is OK …
When I fix all broken sound in cgame regarding new modules I will update SVN.

Also I uploaded on FTP my latest testing build, what am using now at this moment …

Latest compiled

(glew32d.dll, libpng12.dll, lua5.1.dll, newton.dll, OpenWolf.exe, rendererGL.dll, SDL.dll, snd_openal.dll and zlib1.dll) in root folder and (cgame_mp_x86.dll, qagame_mp_x86.dll, ui_mp_x86.dll and pak3.pk3) in ETMAIN folder …

Most of bugs I know and they are on my TODO list …

I still have two more major problems (one is broken loading screen and other is broken mods) - at least for me major. I thought that for mods I tracked problem, but I dont know what is problem with loading screen …

IndyJones · 2011-06-03 09:50:20 UTC

are you going to support ‘3d sounds’, ie voice chat coming actually from player mouth and has a limited hear-able range, not global as it is right now? cvar, naturally.

KeMoN · 2011-06-03 10:12:19 UTC

Talking about sounds…Is there currently real surround-sound support? If not could you somehow implement that?

Dushan · 2011-06-03 15:14:02 UTC

It’s called directional sound sources in OpenAL. Its based on position and direction of sound where player is located, and based on that you may hear high or low sound effects.

You can try surround sound with /s_sdlChannels to 4 or 6 (i believe that is 5.1).
EDIT : little update - Should be number of channels: 1 mono, 2 stereo, 4 surround, 6 surround with center and lfe
But currently is supported only 1 mono and 2 stereo

KeMoN · 2011-06-03 15:26:22 UTC

Ok thank you
I’ll give it a try.

Mateos · 2011-06-03 18:45:00 UTC

Mumble supports this feature for ET as far as I know, there me be already something in the game for this?

bacon1 · 2011-06-05 14:14:16 UTC

[QUOTE=Dushan;331730]
Latest compiled[/QUOTE]
Why are you compiling debug binaries and not release binaries? Debug binaries are useless for us without VS2010 and won’t even run because we’re missing the VS2010 debug libraries.