I’ve read around the various web sites that there won’t be any BOTS in ET:QW. That would be a real shame. I’ve played a lot of Co_op games and perhaps the biggest argument FOR having BOTS (perhaps the Stroggs…) is that it can create a harmonious game. No one complains about BOTS bunnyhopping, rocket spamming or glitching. Co-op builds teamwork-both cooperation and friendliness in a way that DM/TDM etc can’t. I know clans who are disappointed that games like BF2 have no inbuilt co-op mode (although there have been mod attempts- I know of one in the works which I’ve played beta of that ROCKS!). If this were not available in the vanilla version of ET:QW, it would be nice to know that it could be configured as a MOD option without affecting net code unduly. (maybe reduce the human side to a smaller number as human players can play with far smeakier and more devastating tactics than AI presently can.
ET:QW CO_OP
If SD builds AI, then it would take away someones step to fame for making the first bot for ET:QW. So you see, they are looking out for the community in that area…nicer that way, I think. :moo:
i really do wonder about the wording which some people use …
if you need to kill stupid bots in order to get a 1337 feeling, how about playing pacman? it consists 80% only of bots. and i doubt that bots would create a harmonious game. not even once. besides if you are once through with the bot game, it’s game over, because it would be the same all over again.
it’s the age of the internet. you better get online, adapt your wording, start to communicate and play with human teams against human teams, get 1337 and kick sum azz! 
Ummmmm, killing bots isn’t all about getting that 1337 feeling. Sometimes you just want to practice shooting something up. Sometimes you just don’t feel like hopping on line to shoot something up. Sometimes it’s just nice to screw around without people bitching at you or kicking you because you aren’t playing nice with others. I, for one, would love to see bots shipped with the game.
However, I have slim hopes that bots will ship with the necessary logic and AI to do anything but complex death match, which in some games, including BF2, is just fine. Look at games like BF2, which is basically deathmatch with flags and bots already have a hard enough time figuring out class interaction. Hell, you have a hard enough time explaining objectives and class interaction to human players on most servers. Try have enough bots, for a decent game, running those kinds of logic trees, and not bringing your computer to its e-knees.
indeed, sometimes in ET i wish the eng could throw the dyna into the air, and i can try to shoot it while it flies. maybe SD could implement some birds or something in QW, which you can snipe down. it’s like sniping the allies from the hill in fuel dump, like hunting, but the respawn timer is set too long, so they don’t really keep cumming. flying birds would be an alternative while they respawn
I would enjoy playing a map where the players are on one team and the bots on the other team. The human defend somehting, e.g. an area or an object, fragging the on-coming bots.
The number of bots spawning depends on how many humans there are on the server playing. Just for fun, inbetween playing real maps.
EDIT: reply to fattakin, below: Yes, the key words here, as I see it, are ‘insane’, ‘mindless’, ‘fragging’ and ‘fun’. What I had in mind was not necessarily a map with a true objective, rather I can imagine a map where the bots come towards you, from three corridors, they all enter a large open area. And after 4-5 minutes there is A LOT of gibs and red stuff on walls, floor and roof. How long can you stop the ever increasing number of oncoming bots?
Hahah we played something like that at our last LAN Loffy using the Omnibots… VPL played some of the best ET clans and some forum regulars!!! Was great craic and boy they can shoot on the harder difficulty! Was better for the Humans to attack as they werent too hot on attacking tho i think they managed to win Oasis as allies when we were all drunk!!!
The main problem with implementing bots for ET: QW would be that the game is so complex.
The bots would have much more to do then the normal run around shoot. They have to understand deployment, terrorities, classes, vehicles, objectives, tatics, squads etc.
I played Joint Operation with a sqd for a long time. Perhaps the best times were the ones when we were playing against the AI. The nice thing about Joint Ops Co-ops was that it was like playing a huge SP level with your friends. There were tanks, helos, APCs, boats,jeeps with 50cals, snipers, emplaced weapons etc to go up against, but there were also OBJECTIVES to achieve. Teamwork was vital- snipers scouted and took out nemy snipers and emplaced weapon ai, medics kept the players alive, engineers used stingers to down enemy helos and others used c4 to destroy enemy missile installationsetc. Missions would be varied- sometimes defending an area or assets for a given length of time, sometimes destroying an enemy convoy or assasinating an enemy leader. The thing was that this was done with an older engine coded by a relatively small team, without the programming clout of ID/Raven/Splash damage. Area triggers and simple scripted behaviour were used to bring the AI to life. Bots are supplied with attributes- accuracy, awareness, running/waliking speeds etc. They also need the ability to assume the nearest emplaced weapons or vehicles , provide medical support or resupply troops(as in BF2) Bots could patrol a given area, react to incoming fire, have an area (in metres) to represent their line of sight or field of view, they could follow waypoints in vehicles etc. The coding of the AI is not difficult, nor is it netcode intensive.
It remains one of the more popular gameplay modes in Joint Operations. However, the engine is looking a little dated now, and the AI, whilst menacing in large numbers or when behind a destructive vehicle or heavy weapon, was/is not as sophisticated as the Doom III or Quake 4 AI. I do feel that this would contribute to the overall package and make ET:QW a stronger force for captivating the online tactical shooter market and also provide map makers with the means to make interesting objectives based teamplay maps against the AI. BF2 is limited to having only one game mode. I play in the BF2 community as well and know that there would be a strong following for a decent co-op gameplay mode. However, BF2 does not support an objectives-based form of gameplay and any co-op mod would need to simply alter the singleplayer experience to increase the ticket count,allow more or slightly harder AI to attack and defend the control points on the map- AND they would need the map to cycle and start regardless of the host taking part in the game.
Some ppl have no real desire to collect stats or to become elite players. There are many players who have a few online hours per weeks with a bunch of likeminded players to have an enjoyable time. The sense of achievement of completing a map can outwerigh the merits of individual scores or some form of global ranking scheme. (which I notice ET:QW is avoiding) I think this would satisfy a healthy sector of the gaming fraternity.
Remember- ET:QW is aimed at the players who play the larger outdoor tactical shooters- BF2, Joint OPs, Operation Flashpoint as well as the Doom and Quake and Unreal players out there.
Hardly Pacman Joe 999! :suspicious:
I prefer to kill humans tbh, cuz it makes me feel like a big man. U just dont get the same feelin killing bot’s. Bots are minus craic tbh :bash:
Well, joe has a point, and it is shared by SD i think since SD (as far as I understand) chose not to include bots because they think that people can log onto servers at anytime to find good opponents. And, after all, it is a greater thrill to defeat humans compared to bots.
I’m not saying that killing human- controlled players isn’t enjoyable- far from it. I’ve spent more online time racking up kills against ppl than bots. All I’m saying is that there is a solid argument for a CO-OP mode as well.
Playing against humans means that maps have to be balanced in favour of fair play. Playing against AI means that they can outnumber you considerably and make you feel like you’re battling against overwhelming odds to complete your goals in a target-rich environment.
Obviously it’s much better to play against humans, but that assumes that 1. there are humans to play against and 2. the humans aren’t all 10-year old kids.
I’ll buy ET:QW and have fun with it, but at the same time I know I won’t have servers around, and even if some ISP is crazy enough to put up servers, I know there won’t be enough people to play with me (because it’ll probably be a sh*t server that’ll be online for like one week and then close even before people can know about it). I’ll have to hop into american servers with a 250-350 ping like I used to do with UT2k4 Onslaught. Now if the game had bots, I could play against them once in a while, just to have a different sort of fun, on a low ping environment…
I’m not bitching, just pointing some facts: that the ‘ease’ to find human opponents isn’t universal. If I lived on the Europe or most USA cities I wouldn’t give a damn about bots too.
<noob bashing mode>
Why use bots while you have noobs on some servers?
</noob bashing mode>
But Turtle-ZED, have you ever played ET? ET didn’t have bots as well when it started (and i never used em as well) and i never missed them. Its so much better to play against real ppl. Its so much more realistic, you have social contact with em, have fun. Bots wont talk… Bot’s are not needed in ET:QW, ET has proven this and SD does know what they do, they have proven it also with ET.
Yes dude- I’ve played ET- (and just about every decent FPS there is) I was just pointing out that if SD wants some suggestions for development, having a CO-OP mode is a valid one. I spend a lot of time playing FPS and wouldn’t contribute here if I didn’t care for the genre. I do know that there are many players who get fed up with other players who feel inclined to quickly learn every exploit in a game, bunnyhop, glitch where there are mesh collision issues, employ hacks or whine every time they shot or taunt other players after every single kill, abuse VOIP-, start TKing etc…etc. We’ve all been in servers with ppl who have made the game less enjoyable to play.
As for the social contact argument- I’ve already addressed that. Remember- you may be going up against BOTS- but as a team you’ll need to coordinate your efforts, resources and appropriate skills. I think our sqd grew more quickly when we were playing co-op than when playing advance and secure, team king of the hill or team deathmatch- because other players were quickly involved in communications with friendly players.
I think that reading up on some posts inside this forum would do you some good.
There is this thing called “search”…it helps you to find similiar threads of conversation. I only alert this to you because you act as if no-one has ever brought it up before…[yoda]very uninformed you are.[/yoda]
Erm- already did that b4 my first post. Doesn’t hurt to keep some topics fresh in the developer’s mind though - and the opinions and thoughts of newer members are usually drawn to newer threads rather than wading through 20+ pages of older posts.
I disagree!
No, seriously, almost all the comments and suggestions are entirely welcome (if not necessarily acted on immediately). Just wanted to shout some kudos and props to Joint Operations, a game that has joined my mental folder marked “Deserved Better”. I thought it had some really strong points, but never see many people reference or discuss it. Other inhabitatants of this folder are the excellent Blood and N.O.L.F (both Monolith) and Chu Chu Rocket (Sega).
*thread hijack over. Return to your allotted tasks.