Enemy Glowing

(Seyu) #81

I respect SD’s decisions, the work you guys did on your previous two titles speaks for itself. You guys understand what (pc)gamers want from a multiplayer game, more so because of the studio’s roots as a competitive multiplayer clan. And it’s a given that no wants Brink to be a success more than you guys.

Yet, I feel that the direction Brink’s development is heading in now, isn’t what most of us, pc gamers especially, want from it.
"I’ll admit that I don’t think any of us thinks our solution is ideal…’’
If you don’t mind me asking, a solution for what? If the problem was about getting the player to keep his focus on enemy players, I think contemporary fps games accomplish that without offering any in-your-face visual cues. Years of deathmatch have hardwired players into primarily focusing on the enemy rather than being distracted from the foreground by objectives, in case that was the reasoning behind it.

I understand that with SD’s foray into consoles and mainstream gaming, your games should likewise be more accessible but I think you underestimate the mental capacity of the average gamer. This is something that turned off most people from the recent Dragon Age 2 and Bioware is receiving flak from reviewers and gamers, both hardcore and mainstream, alike.

I think this the only legitimate argument that has been made so far for keeping the rim lighting.
I don’t that this should be much of a problem given how the maps in Brink feature a more diverse color palette than your average shooter.
Look at BC2, the players’ uniforms’ camouflage changes according to the terrain of the map, yet the majority doesn’t have a problem in locating players. And if most players are fine with how things are in that game, there shouldn’t be much of a problem in Brink’s multi-colored levels, no?

Just means those at a long range (snipers, campers) will benefit from this the most.

(Aza) #82

Quite honestly I’m not sure what perspective the haters of the auras are coming from. Is it purely from an aesthetic pov or are you also arguing from a gameplay standpoint as well.

I have no problems pointing out enemies in games like bfbc2 and the like, but honestly you’re only dealing with a handful of model types to have to process to figure out whether it’s an enemy or not. That is not the case with Brink. With all of the variables with looks alone I’m sure even most veteran fps gamers will be a little overwhelmed by it when they first play. (Though I’m guessing anyone from SD who’s been playing it for so long can easily distinguish the factions.) So what are their solutions? Either they redo their color pallettes to make them so extreme that it’s just the same Red vs Blue, or what they’ve implemented with the halos. From the videos that I’ve seem I myself am not too fond of how harsh it appears but anything from a backseat pov looks worse than it really is. Most who actually played it didn’t seem to think it was as bad an eyesore as we’re all making it out to be. At the very least I hope it’ll to be a feature that can be toggled.

From a competitive standpoint I don’t think it will make much of a difference, if not for the outlines we’ll just end up cranking up the brightness and lowering the details, ‘destroying’ the look of the game anyway.

(Weapuh) #83

Aza, tokamak described in brief the perspective.

I was just going over in my mind if any well mapped game (which im assuming this is one) had this halo feature how bad it would be.
“hmm I’ll go lookout to see where they’re coming from, well i saw this bright red smear go that way in the corner of my screen, they are going that way” for no work or game-sense at all you know the other teams plans, instead of noticing subtle movements on the horizon ect which is a subtlety learned when the gameplay evolves to a point where you need to learn such skills they are just skipping these high-level thought processes and making people glow, essentially killing lots and lots of little gameplay edges people can use learned through experience.

(JeP) #84

[QUOTE=tokamak;269134]Perhaps if people read the arguments then we wouldn’t need to be persistent or unpleasant.

  • We’re arguing about the default setting the game comes shipped with.[/QUOTE]

Where has it been said that PAX demo showed the default setting ?
Don’t forget that people had only 30 minutes to test it, and not being
the random FFA multi shooter that makes billion dollars these days,
I won’t be suprised if SD had made things clearer to help player FOR THIS EVENT.

This just seems to be in contradiction with SD intention for the pace of the game. But hopefully, there will be server options to build a game that suits you best.

[QUOTE=tokamak;269134]If there’s truly a group of people who have issues wit this, then it would make sense to turn this into a perk. If this truly is a difficulty for them, then sacrificing a slot would be more than worth it.

Visibility of the enemy has never been an issue on pc shooters. So the reason to suddenly act as if it is makes me highly suspicious. I don’t want to see the PC tarnished with console values.[/QUOTE]
It has been said, this is the result of several play testing. They know who they want to sell the game to, they obviously have feedback from them, and you have not played the game, or not enough to know the real impact of the interface on the game. You have shared your view and don’t have more argument to defend it, given all that, I REALLY don’t see the point on persisting to write it.

I’m a little worried on the look of the game too, but at the moment we don’t have enough element and I just have faith on SD :slight_smile:

(Aza) #85

Ya i just read it after posting, I think there’s a bit of too much exaggeration going on. If you download the new trailer and watch the scenes when its in the pov of someone shooting enemies their ‘red smears’ aren’t that aggressive. From reading what some people are saying about it you’d think all you could see was a red blob running around. The only worry I would have if anything would be whether or not the aura themselves actually give off some sort of glow light source, if that makes any sense. I do find the friendly outlines way too harsh however.

(tokamak) #86

[QUOTE=JeP;269148]Where has it been said that PAX demo showed the default setting ?
Don’t forget that people had only 30 minutes to test it, and not being
the random FFA multi shooter that makes billion dollars these days,
I won’t be suprised if SD had made things clearer to help player FOR THIS EVENT.[/QUOTE]

Exedore calls it a ‘decent solution’. The point I’m arguing about it now is because as far as I know nothing is final yet. I rather give my preferences before than after a release. I do NOT want this to become a default setting on PC games. For console games I have no experience and thus no opinion, perhaps the red glow works wonders there.

This just seems to be in contradiction with SD intention for the pace of the game. But hopefully, there will be server options to build a game that suits you best.

I’m talking about the default setting here. The default setting is what most servers will run and what most players will play. And if that contradicts the intentions for the pace of the game, then so does the entire operative class. The point is not to be completely absorbed in your surroundings and be invisible, it’s about the opportunity to be low-profile. All I’m asking.

It has been said, this is the result of several play testing.
Assuming this is coming from console testers is not a long stretch.

They know who they want to sell the game to…

…console players by the looks of things…

they obviously have feedback from them

I bet

and you have not played the game
Indeed but I have played the previous titles and I have an eye in each socket of my skull.

or not enough to know the real impact of the interface on the game.

I also have the abillity to combine the experience of previous titles with what the current videos have shown me to anticipate how this game turns out. No PC player has ever made an issue out of player visibility, and suddenly we have to be amazed at how inaccessible standard values are in shooters? That argument just won’t fly.

You have shared your view and don’t have more argument to defend it, given all that, I REALLY don’t see the point on persisting to write it.

If I see people wondering what our point is, if I see people using the same arguments, then the arguments have clearly not arrived so I do see value in repeating them until people do understand or until I get a satisfying answer from a developer (Yes, I should be glad they communicate at all, but there’s no way they can say the elaborated this sufficiently).

I’m a little worried on the look of the game too, but at the moment we don’t have enough element and I just have faith on SD :slight_smile:

These are the best times to give feedback on what we see. These are issues that are best raised as soon as they hit the internet.

Besides, it’s really easy to get me to shut up about this. All I need is either one single good reason why the strawberry plum policy is necessary on the PC or the assurance that this is just a console measure.

(DarkangelUK) #87

Some of the friendly outlines you were seeing were potential buff range highlights, they’ll only be that prominent when you’re within range and a team mate can be buffed.

(Weapuh) #88

I think the diction we are using e.g. Gummy Bear suit, radiated red jam are exaggerated a lot too be funny :slight_smile: But as for the issue I do think it’s putting an artificial skill ceiling in place that hampers the game SERIOUSLY down the road and i intend on making an well thought out post later but for now (as u may noticed from my crazy rantings) I’m stressed trying to sell my house and notaries are useless people here! :stuck_out_tongue:

(tokamak) #89

Team indicators are not my issue, they can have green glow effects as well.

I can attest to that, I’m following seminars with wannabe notaries at the moment.

(DarkangelUK) #90

It was referencing Aza’s last point, we seem to have posted at the same time.

(Aza) #91

Lol i hear you, it can be stressful especially if you’re working on some timeline.

I’m not really sure i agree with you far as skill cap goes. I think it just shifts that skill focus elsewhere. Instead of having a skill set to identify enemies it would just put the focus more into aiming/movement imo not unlike quake3/qlive with their extremely identifiable model skins. Whether that is a good or bad thing is another argument entirely.

(Weapuh) #92

I agree that it does devote more skill into shooting and moving much like the skill needed in other mainstream AAA garbage, SD has always made games where the longer the game was played the more cerebral the gameplay got, even in the final matches I played in ETQW pubs there were still different basic strategies and tactics being used often based on intelligent flanking positioning and crossfire.

(tokamak) #93

Aye, if Brink was an acrobatic arcade shooter with lots of bunnyhopping, rocket jumps and bullet dodging then this would make sense. But right now it’s presented as a tactical shooter, ‘Enemy Territory 3’, it’s totally not in line with the direction the rest of the game is going.

(Aza) #94

It may have changed since last I played so correct me if I’m wrong, but even the subsequent ET games had some form of strafe jumping mechanics. Brink seems to just have made it an actual core part in the form of SMART albeit the ‘movement’ mechanic is drastically different.

I don’t know if it was ever advertised as a ‘tactical shooter’ more so than a team play based game, just like its previous games.

And yea I agree with you Weapuh, I don’t know how many times I’d stop playing their ET games for a period only to come back and find that the basic strats have completely changed just to compensate for what I guess the overall raised skill cap of the people playing. I still have yet to find any current games with that kind of depth.

(Weapuh) #95

Cool so we’re on the same page as far as that, and I believe that the glow will actually contribute to that big-time if you look to the core elements of how games evolve when a learned bias emerges and then the “new strat” turns that bias on it’s ear. But when people are so extremely easy to spot = death to cerebral gameplay.

(tokamak) #96

[QUOTE=Aza;269182]It may have changed since last I played so correct me if I’m wrong, but even the subsequent ET

[/QUOTE]games had some form of strafe jumping mechanics.

No it didn’t.

Brink seems to just have made it an actual core part in the form of SMART albeit the ‘movement’ mechanic is drastically different.

For navigating through the map. The only substantial change in shoot-outs seems to be the addition of the slide.

I don’t know if it was ever advertised as a ‘tactical shooter’ more so than a team play based game, just like its previous games.

Teams, classes, ironsights and objectives. It’s a tactical shooter.

Which is the strongest point of ET.

(DarkangelUK) #97

W:ET had circlejumping, ground acceleration and you could strafe down slopes and have air accel angles for gaining speed with consecutive jumps (albeit, again only going down slopes). Also had ramping and skimming, both seen in this jump.

(tokamak) #98

All of which were intended for reaching difficult spots rather than being combat manoeuvres.

(DarkangelUK) #99

That was just a reply at the ‘No it didn’t’ comment regarding strafing mechanics in the game.

(Aza) #100

Main reason why I had wrote ‘tactical shooter’ cause everyones meaning of the word differs. Under your definition TF2 would fall under that same genre and I would hardly call it that. Whereas my definition of a tactical shooter would be somewhere along the lines of the rainbow six series etc.

I may have a biased opinion about the visibility of enemies because I am talking from a competitive standpoint where pinpointing enemies was never an issue in the older games due to just mutilating the cfg to make everything a bright mess. And if these halo’s were in any other game where immersion was a major factor for me then I too would be rather annoyed by it. I’m with SD’s initial assessment that it should have been relegated to friendlies only.

It is just a sad fact that SD has to appeal to the bigger gaming community and in turn have to streamline and ‘dumb’ things down for them. The main reason fps gaming in general has stagnated imo for a long time. Hardcore games just don’t make it anymore which is sad. My hope is that Brink will catch on with the mainstream and will finally have people realize and demand better fps games than the crap cod that gets churned out every year.