Endless Levelling


(InfiniteStates) #1

First off, I forget the proper terminology between rank and level, so for the purposes of this post I’ll use rank as the perk bands (1 to 5) and level as the value that caps at 20.

I know it’s a completely artificial thing, but it feels like there is little to work for once your character is maxed. It would be nice for XP to count even beyond level 20. And I can see no good reason for it to stop at 20. All it is is a geometric sequence of XP bands to push the level number up one.

If there is only a signed byte allocated to hold the level number (worse case) then cap it at 127, but that’s still a lot more life for a character than capping at 20. And similarly it would be really nice to see what level all the other players in the game were via the scoreboard.

The rank system is great and needs no change, so the level change really is just a case of extending the XP bands and pushing the cap out to the maximum that the level variable can handle (byte, short, long or whatever). Rank 5 simply goes from being level 20 to level 20+.

As I approach level 20 on my third character I’m finding fewer reasons to start yet another. This simple, cheap change would yield a lot more longevity for me (yet I don’t know why lol).


(Lu-Tze) #2

If you don’t get more ability points after lvl 20, I’m for it.


(kamikazee) #3

It’s great that you leveled up 3 characters, probably with diverse abilities and looks, really.

However, have you become a better player? Can you help your team by being there when it’s necessary to win the map? Because the reason to play is not the number of XP, it’s because you want to help your team win (keeping in mind that you might have to switch teams when the other team is just wimping out).


(Jess Alon) #4

It’s a tad disheartening to have your character get ZERO xp or whatever at the end of a match. We should at least be able to have that overall number keep going up so that we know how awesome they are. Not really a ranking system but sort of a mileage system. If your XP goes to the maximum number it rolls over and starts at 300000 or whatever again and you get a hash mark or something. Each hash mark you have you can respec without dropping a level. I think that would be fair.


(Ghostdog) #5

Actually levelling over 20 would have the advantage of giving you ‘spare’ levels for respecs. That way you could respec without losing abilities and unlocks.


(Kurnuttaja) #6

I think they are planning to raise the level cap among DLCs, just like WoW. Thats probably why it is capped.


(InfiniteStates) #7

Obviously - you’d have to be cognitively stagnant not to.

Of course - this is the best way to earn XP…not off doing your own thing.

People play for different reasons. I play for fun obviously (which is why I’m on my third character inventing reasons to make more, and long after getting the platinum trophy), but that fun is muted somewhat knowing that nothing is progressing. Would the XP numbers floating off every action be as rewarding if they said “+0xp” every time? Because they may as well when you hit level 20…

And I do switch sides in the name of balance unless I have friends only on my current team. If I’m playing with randoms or friends on both sides I will switch if need be (which makes that period you must wait very annoying because you can’t switch before the match starts). A one-sided match is dull and will only become more one-sided if left that way.

I don’t see how this change has any negative impact, other than…

I personally don’t care about respecing. I don’t have a problem with your level being set to 19 (assuming it was 20+) irrespective of what your level is if/when you respec. This way might make you less inclined the longer you wait…?


(Calelith) #8

I still wish they had gone with the idea of once you hit max, EXP earned flowed over to your other characters.


(Protector) #9

+1 from me! Getting a big fat 0 is disheartening and like I have mentioned before having more level progression gives you an overall goal.


(Crytiqal) #10

I thought they even said it would, but clearly my memory is lacking :confused:


(SK7109) #11

Earned xp flowed over to your other character, imo was the best idea
http://www.co-optimus.com/article/4071/brink-has-dedicated-servers-console-matchmaking-and-interesting-xp-uses.html


(InfiniteStates) #12

But the point is, I don’t want to use another character… I want to use my level 20 that now has access to the top tier abilities while still progressing him. Not get to level 20 and start another character that has a slight head start through the early levels that only take a challenge or game or two to get through anyway.

And when I’ve made ten characters (or however many slots there are), I’m back to the same situation (i.e. a load of characters with no scope for progression - actual or perceived) as now unless I delete one to make another.

It just makes any one character feel disposable because I know I’ll be moving on when it’s maxed out to play with any sense of progression. I realise that it’s purely psycological because any progression beyond level 20 is immaterial anyway, but similarly it’s an inconsequential change to make to add cheap longevity for like minded players.


(iezza) #13

when it says you get NO xp, do you still apear on the scoreboards as having Xp. cos that would look stupid, not getting to the top of the scoreboards cos im lv 20.


(Coolaguy) #14

Clarifying the Problem: BRINK’s Implementation of an Extrinsic Reward System:

The problem is that Splash Damage implemented in Brink an Extrinsic Reward System that failed to have sufficient longevity (i.e. Level Cap of 20).

Study after study has shown that when you ‘reward’ players for activities that they would have already found intrinsically motivating, the participants eventually reach a state where they will cease to perform said activity without sufficient extrinsic rewards. Moreover, they are no longer intrinsically motivated to perform said activity or find it satisfying.

What We Can Learn from Children Who Lost the Will to Draw or Colour:

There is a famous study involving Grade School children who were paid to draw and colour. Ordinarily children love this activity and its creative expression. They will draw and colour for hours, and they do so when they feel like it or have an opportunity to participate.

The children who were paid, however, failed to be motivated to colour once there were no longer sufficient extrinsic motivators in place (i.e. they stopped getting paid). This study’s results have been replicated over and over in various fields with the same outcome each time.

Rank 5 is the Way That BRINK Was Meant to Be Played:

The real irony, in Splash Damage’s case, is that Rank 5 is the way that the game was ‘meant to be played’. In other words, rather than being a deliberate Variable Reward RPG progression Level Cap (maxed at Level 20), Rank 5 is the ‘training-wheels-off’ mode.

It Looks Like ‘Variable Reward’ and Feels Like ‘Variable Reward’, But Where’s My ‘Variable Rewards’?

The problem with the way Splash Damage implemented this feature of their game design in Brink is that, to the player, rewards are distributed in what feels like a Variable Reward system (i.e. the psychologically proven most motivating of extrinsic reward distribution system [as opposed to predictatable reward, etc.]).

That is, every so often, I hear a satisfying sound-effect thud in the post-game recap screen and the thuds just keep coming as new unlocks scroll across the bottom of my screen. Among the unlocks, I might get a “cool, new” outfit or an audio log in addition to the Ability Point that I’ve just earned. At this point, I can go and customize my character’s Appearance or assign myself new Abilities.

THEN, all of a sudden, THE REWARDS STOP COMING…

As Splash Damage, you just violated the fundamental principle of a Variable Reward system.


An Aside on Why You Might Be Blissfully Unaware:

[I]As an aside, if the permanent dry spell of unlocks and abilities doesn’t bother you in the slightest and you are blissfully unaware of their absence at Level 20, then you obviously weren’t extrinsically motivated in the first place. That is, you’ve been playing the game, because you were intrinsically motivated to do so.

Good for you.

This doesn’t discount, however, that Splash Damage directly encouraged players to embrace the extrinsic motivators in Brink and then left them high and dry.

As I imagine it, it is an oversight, but it is a significant one, nonetheless. Splash Damage’s system in Brink is an emulation of other game’s Level Progression systems, but without the understanding of why the others work in the first place.

You almost never run out of things to do in CoD, because it takes an eternity to grind through CoD’s Prestiges. The extrinsic rewards just keep on coming.

You may hit Level Cap in WoW, but that’s not the sole instance of extrinsic motivators in WoW. A key feature of WoW is the collection of Loot, and Loot, as an extrinsic motivator, is distributed by Variable Reward.

Splash Damage has made a tremendous oversight with their Level Cap in Brink.[/I]


A Proposed Fix: An Imperfect Solution to a Problem That SPLASH DAMAGE Doesn’t Even Realize That They Have

It seems to me that the only fix is, as the OP suggested, to implement a Leveling System that exceeds the Level Cap of 20. The obvious flaw with this design, though, is the mechanic of Re-Specing your character past the Level Cap of 20.

The Re-Spec feature was designed so that the act of Re-Specing gave you the flexibility to try out different abilities, and it made your progression significant by moderately punishing you (via Ability Point and Level demotion) when you gave it a try.

If players were granted the opportunity to Level-Up their characters past the current Level Cap of 20, then I propose that admission to Additional Leveling should impose another penalty*:

Leveling-Up past the current Level 20 max Level Cap should come with especially severe Re-Spec’ing Penalties

* - more for the sake of the Game’s Mechanics and Game Balance rather than because it is necessary in a Level Progression system

It would be necessary to demote player according to the following scheme:

Level 20 --> Level 19; Lose 1 Ability Point
Level 21-24 --> Level 19; Lose 1 Ability Point
greater than or equal to Level 25 --> Reduce 5 Levels per Re-Spec; No Loss of Ability Point

Given the geometric sequence of experience points required for Leveling, the demotion of 5 Levels past Level 25 would be a severe deterrent to players who were trying to Level-Up, but it would not be prohibitive if a Re-Spec’ed loadout were required by virtue of some revelation on the player’s part. (Additional “Are you sure?” prompts would probably be prudent when setting Ability Points in Re-Spec mode past Level 25.)

Otherwise, without the penalty of a 5-Level-Drop, Re-Spec’ing could be easily abused by players who have surpassed Level 20. A 5-Level plummet limits the number of Re-Spec’ing opportunities that you will have, so, as a player, you will be forced to be judicious with their use.


(wolfnemesis75) #15

The level cap is to promote the creation of multiple characters. Brink revolves are custom characters. If there was no level cap, most would not bother making additional characters. I have 5 Characters I am working on. Two level 20s, a level 10 and some new characters. I am not a fan of grinding away levels a la COD. And prestige I hate. So, I like it how it is currently.


(jazevec) #16

Characters are stored client-side. I could write a script to periodically delete your character files. Would that make you happy ?


(DarkangelUK) #17

They did originally, but nearer release they said it was something that had to be cut.


(wolfnemesis75) #18

I’d also add that I played Gears of War 1 for years on end and it didn’t have any levels, abilities, and exp. But was fun as hell. Brink is fine. Leave it alone please. Some of those games with all this focus on exp take away from the game. It should be about teamwork, not exp boosting and other crap that goes on in other games. I like how Brink is trying to be different. I like how in Brink if you are new to the game, there’s not this huge gap between you and someone who’s been playing for a while except in terms of skill. I LOVE in Brink how once you are level 20 you get a couple rank 5 abilities and that’s it. Keep the overall game focused on teamwork. High exp grinds are for games that are lonewolf-centric.


(BiigDaddyDellta) #19

It’s true I feel like once I hit level 20 that character is “done.”


(R_Shackelford) #20

I think the level cap should be increased to 25 (for skill points), and after that the XP just keeps going up. Maybe the level cap could be increased beyond that, with new clothes awarded every five levels.