Edge Online Looks at Balancing Brink

(Whydmer) #81

I guess I am perceiving how things work a little differently than what I am reading in these posts. What I believe is this:

As your character progresses through the levels specifically levels and ranks you get a credit for each level you earn. While you are within a rank you can only buy that ranks abilities (or possibly the abilities of lower ranks). So Rank 1 is levels 0-4 and so you can earn 4 credits on your way up to buy 4 Rank 1 abilites from the 4 classes and universal group. When you hit level 5 you are now Rank 2 so you can start buying rank 2 abilities, again from whatever class. (you may be able to still buy any un-bought Rank 1 abilities but I have never seen that said officially). So upon reaching level 5-9 you can buy Rank 2 abilities. Then levels 10-14 you can buy Rank 3 abilities, levels 15-19 you can buy rank 4 abilities and finally at level 20 you can buy a rank 5 ability. So a maxed out unrespecced character would have 4 Rank 1 abilities, 5 Rank 2 abilities, 5 rank 3 abilites, 5 rank 4 abilities, and 1 rank 5 ability. (Again you may be able to buy more of the lower ranked abilities and fewer upper ranked abilities if you choose - but we need official word on that).

The question is once you respec can you buy more abilities from the higher ranks than you could on your first passage through the levels? My answer (an assumption only, but based on buying abilities in RPG games and how it normally works) would be no. That you still need to purchase a certain number of rank 1 abilities and a certain number of rank 2 abilities, and so on and that you will always only be able to have one rank 5 ability.

My $0.02.

(Cankor) #82

[QUOTE=Whydmer;279415]I guess I am perceiving how things work a little differently than what I am reading in these posts. What I believe is this:

As your character progresses through the levels specifically levels and ranks you get a credit for each level you earn. While you are within a rank you can only buy that ranks abilities (or possibly the abilities of lower ranks). So Rank 1 is levels 0-4 and so you can earn 4 credits on your way up to buy 4 Rank 1 abilites from the 4 classes and universal group. When you hit level 5 you are now Rank 2 so you can start buying rank 2 abilities, again from whatever class. (you may be able to still buy any un-bought Rank 1 abilities but I have never seen that said officially). So upon reaching level 5-9 you can buy Rank 2 abilities. Then levels 10-14 you can buy Rank 3 abilities, levels 15-19 you can buy rank 4 abilities and finally at level 20 you can buy a rank 5 ability. So a maxed out unrespecced character would have 4 Rank 1 abilities, 5 Rank 2 abilities, 5 rank 3 abilites, 5 rank 4 abilities, and 1 rank 5 ability. (Again you may be able to buy more of the lower ranked abilities and fewer upper ranked abilities if you choose - but we need official word on that).

The question is once you respec can you buy more abilities from the higher ranks than you could on your first passage through the levels? My answer (an assumption only, but based on buying abilities in RPG games and how it normally works) would be no. That you still need to purchase a certain number of rank 1 abilities and a certain number of rank 2 abilities, and so on and that you will always only be able to have one rank 5 ability.

My $0.02.[/QUOTE]

Everything you said sounds right up to: “So a maxed out unrespecced character would have 4 Rank 1 abilities, 5 Rank 2 abilities, 5 rank 3 abilites, 5 rank 4 abilities, and 1 rank 5 ability.”

You are assuming the guy actually uses his credits at every rank. I believe you can just as easily save them to buy higher achievements later. Speculating of course.

(tokamak) #83

I don’t think you should be able to do that.

(H0RSE) #84

We don’t know if their are limits on the abilities. Perhaps you are only able to purchase one R5 ability, regardless how many credits or free space you have.

(tokamak) #85

That’s a good point. Though I am more a fan of costs (other than time spent) rather than absolute limits.

(Weeohhweeohh) #86

I have been trying to find screen shots of the ability trees that would shed a little light on the subject. All I really could find was this one.

For those that can’t see the link, it shows the medic ability tree and only the last 2 abilities have been purchased. Self Rez (rank 4) and Rez Grenade (rank 5). This suggests that there is no ability investment requirement to access upper rank abilities.

(tokamak) #87

I hope that’s not representative then. What would be the point of tier 1 abilities on the long therm?

(Weeohhweeohh) #88

Also, I scrounged up this one. This shows that all the medic abilities have been purchased (9 in total) and he has 11 remaining coins. This leads me to believe that abilities do not have increased costs in regards to rank.

Well, it gives a little more flexibility in building your character. I just noticed that non of the class trees have rank 1 abilities (data we have atm) other then basic kits and stuff like Molotov Cocktails (which the soldier gets with his basic kit). Meaning you will have to invest in the general tree right out of the gate or hold onto your coins until you reach level 5.

Edit: Only speculation. I realize we may not be seeing final build data.

(Herandar) #89

Tok, how am I supposed to take your argument(s) seriously when you keep saying that there are no rank 5 abilities, when there are numerous screenshots each of the class abilities screens showing the rank 5 abilities (taken from the Matter of Class video).

The tier 5 ability is the Gatling turret. It replaces your ability to place the other turrets as far as I can tell, but even if it doesn’t, it is still just a gatling turret. Watch the Matter of Class video.

Given that customization is a key selling point of Brink, it truly doesn’t make sense to apply any more limits to selecting abilities than reaching the rank required to unlock the ability. The abilities are to add flavor to your playstyle, not make higher-level characters unstoppable killing machines. It should not cost more to access to high-level abilites.

(Weeohhweeohh) #90

Herandar, Tok is referring to the upgrade level of the turret. Heavy turret would be a Tier 3 turret because it has been upgraded twice. The nomenclature messed me up too. We both mistook his “tier” for “rank”.

(tokamak) #91

More flexibility doesn’t lead to more varied builds, on the contrary, people would feel obliged to simply take the strongest abilities because there’s no reason (cost) not to.

(Weeohhweeohh) #92

If the game is as balanced as SD says it is, then I really see no problem with that. Sure, the rez grenade and the self rez abilities are pretty good, but they seem to pale in comparison to handing out an extra 1 or 2 pips of health to everyone (IMO). High rank abilities aren’t the end all, be all.

(tokamak) #93

Either the’s no difference between ranks or there’s no reason not to take all the higher ranks.

(Whydmer) #94

[QUOTE=Weeohhweeohh;279519]I have been trying to find screen shots of the ability trees that would shed a little light on the subject. All I really could find was this one.

For those that can’t see the link, it shows the medic ability tree and only the last 2 abilities have been purchased. Self Rez (rank 4) and Rez Grenade (rank 5). This suggests that there is no ability investment requirement to access upper rank abilities.[/QUOTE]

Actually Wee, all this shows is that this character did not buy Rank 2 and Rank 3 medic abilities. It could have bought Rank 2 and Rank 3 and other Rank 4 abilities from other classes and universal. If this is a “real build” and not just a screenie mad by the devs.

(Weeohhweeohh) #95

Well, the way I see it, SD developed their ranking system for a few reasons. 1) They wanted people of similar rank with similar tools to fight each other. 2) They wanted people of similar rank with similar amount of tools to fight each other.

A rank 1 player has the basics and a few extra basic tools to fight with. A rank 5 has basic tools and a plethora (20) of assorted tools to fight with. This doesn’t mean he has OP things in his box, it means he has a lot more things he can use to tailor his character to his own play style.

The reason players may pick higher rank abilities is to fill out their character how they desire. Just because I am rank 5 and have a heavy turret doesn’t mean a rank 1 can’t kill me or that I’m OP. It means I have a heavy turret, also I have an extra pip of life no matter what, also I have an extra pip of supplies no matter what, also the guys on my team have buffed weapons…and on and on.

(Weeohhweeohh) #96

I was mainly just commenting on class specific trees. Saying that you didn’t need to buy x amount of medic abilities to have access to higher ones.

You bring up a good point though, but I’m inclined to think that you could fill out your character by skipping all the lower rank abilities. Not sure why anyone would do that, seeing as lower rank abilities are great, but I think it can be done. Just my opinion.

Edit: Found this. The player skipped all the rank 1 abilities and went to rank 2. This is by no means hard evidence, but if a player can skip rank 1 abilities, why wouldn’t they be able to skip rank 2, 3 or 4. It would be like SD making us spend coins in the general tree regardless of what we actually want to do just to gain access to higher rank abilities. BUT unless you are playing an incredibly niche character, I would say 99% of the time you are going to put a couple points into general.

(Cankor) #97

If you have to use your level credits every time you get them then why is there a counter showing how many you have available?

Assuming you mean tier as in 3 tiers of turret upgrades, then the point is you coud still have aturret yet use your credit on something else.

The abilities let you play the game certain ways, to be more specialized, theya ren’t supposed to level your guy up so he’s better than the other guys. That’s the idea as I undertand it anyway.

So a rank 1 ability may be better than a rank 5 ability.

Obviously a tier 3 turret will be better thana tier 1 turret, the question you will ask when choosing it though is it better than picking something else.

(tokamak) #98

I really don’t think we’re on the same page.

No offence here, it’s not your fault and you obviously don’t mean to, but what you’re saying now is very ambiguous and vague. I stand accused as well, I haven’t been to clear either.

It just shows that the English vocabulary falls short on accurately discussing game mechanics. Tokens, ranks, tiers levels, and what not are all things that seem to be interpreted by different people.

I’m not really interested in discussing mid and low game. These are phases that eventually will pass. The end-game is where it’s at.

So in the end-game, using the turret example, if all the abilities have the same cost in all regards, why would anyone use a tier 1 or tier 2 turret over the tier 3, the gattling turret? Do the lower tiers only exist to give the levelling players something to play with, doesn’t that mean that in the end we effectively end up with less viable abilities and thus less variety?

It sounds really lame.

(Nail) #99

look at the turret thing as upgrades, tier 1 has single barrel and lower rate of fire, tier 2 upgrades that turret to double barrel and higher ROF, tier 3 lets you put a minigun on it and 2,000 RPM

(Weeohhweeohh) #100

[QUOTE=tokamak;279561]I really don’t think we’re on the same page.

No offence here, it’s not your fault and you obviously don’t mean to, but what you’re saying now is very ambiguous and vague. I stand accused as well, I haven’t been to clear either.

It just shows that the English vocabulary falls short on accurately discussing game mechanics. Tokens, ranks, tiers levels, and what not are all things that seem to be interpreted by different people.

I’m not really interested in discussing mid and low game. These are phases that eventually will pass. The end-game is where it’s at.

So in the end-game, using the turret example, if all the abilities have the same cost in all regards, why would anyone use a tier 1 or tier 2 turret over the tier 3, the gattling turret? Do the lower tiers only exist to give the levelling players something to play with, doesn’t that mean that in the end we effectively end up with less viable abilities and thus less variety?

It sounds really lame.[/QUOTE]

This is just my point of view here, so take it as such. Lets say, for one of my rank 5 characters I want to really focus on the Soldier and Universal trees. I will allot a large portion of my skill coins to those trees but maybe not all of them. Maybe I have a handful left, lets say 3. I realize that being able to plant a turret down to either harass or slow the enemy is worth investment, but how much (When I’m am filling that class role or just feeling I want to play as an engineer for a bit). Maybe I just want a light turret. Maybe I want to invest the other points into nerves of steal and weapon buff 2 (from what I can tell weapon buff 1 comes in the basic engineer’s kit). Sure I wont have a heavy turret, but I have something that draws attention so I can either defuse or flank.

I think you are viewing high rank abilities as being better then lower ones. Sure its a Gatling turret, but I don’t think SD designed it to mow down an entire team. Its gonna be stationary and its gonna have a lot less HP (IMO) then a player. Its a harassment and attention grabbing tool with the added advantage of doing some (avoidable) damage.