Edge Online Looks at Balancing Brink

(Whydmer) #61

I would still doubt that the system is designed to allow one character to have 5 rank 5 abilities at a time, it seems a bit of a scam to me.

(tokamak) #62

Even if there are 5 rank 5 abilities to be used, then that means they would’ve spent all their points on filling 5 slots, leaving the 20 other slots unfilled. That means simply means it’s a highly specialist build rather than a versatile mix most people would be going for.

(Herandar) #63

Five rank 5 abilities cost the same as five rank 1 abilites, no? The rank is not a increased cost, it is a limit delaying when you can get it.

Why not? You can only use two at one time, since only one class ability will be available to you when you are that class. When you switch classes, you get to have the rank 5 ability for that class available to you.

(tokamak) #64

They cost just one slot, but a rank 5 ability requires 5 points, because you only have 25 points to spent, that means you’re sinking all your points in just 5 slots, leaving 20 slots unfilled.

I like crazy builds (whatever the game) so it would be cool if all that was possible, and there really exist that man tiers. Though we already know this is not the case.

(Herandar) #65

What is your basis for these numbers? My understanding was that you get one credit for every level, ergo, you have 20 credits total. I have not seen any information indicating that any ability costs more than one credit.

(Weeohhweeohh) #66

Ya, I assume that each ability only costs 1 coin to buy. Though you know what they say about assuming things. It wouldn’t make sense that higher ranks cost more because when you hit level 20 you only get 1 coin.

(tokamak) #67

20 instead of 25 then. The rest remains, you need to pay the lower tiers before getting the higher tiers. You have 25 slots to fill (4 classes, one generic), having them all filled is not possible, if you want 20 filled you cannot have anything above tier 1. If you want 4 tier 5 abillities then you have spent 4x5=20 coins on 4 abilities that fill 4 slots.

It doesn’t seem tier 5 abillities exist in the first place, 3 seems to be the highest. 4 tier 3 abillities cost 12 coins, means you have 8 left to spent on other things.

Bottomline is, specialising costs resources, as it should be. There’s a balance between width and depth here.

(Nail) #68

the engi can build 3 turrets, most cost to him is 3 to get heavy turrets, things only cost more than 1 if an upgrade

(RAAAAAAAAAAGE) #69

I’m loving the way this abilities thing sounds. Theres gonna be so much variety! even if you had 8 lvl 20 specialised medics i bet theyd all be different abilities wise :smiley:

(Herandar) #70

[QUOTE=tokamak;279266]20 instead of 25 then. The rest remains, you need to pay the lower tiers before getting the higher tiers. You have 25 slots to fill (4 classes, one generic), having them all filled is not possible, if you want 20 filled you cannot have anything above tier 1. If you want 4 tier 5 abillities then you have spent 4x5=20 coins on 4 abilities that fill 4 slots.

It doesn’t seem tier 5 abillities exist in the first place, 3 seems to be the highest. 4 tier 3 abillities cost 12 coins, means you have 8 left to spent on other things.

Bottomline is, specialising costs resources, as it should be. There’s a balance between width and depth here.[/QUOTE]

When you respec, you get all of your credits back. If you are level 20 and respec, you get 19 credits back, and have access to all but the rank 5 abilities. Say you only buy 15 abilities when you respec, and you hold the four credits remaining until you hit level 20. When you hit level 20, you can select all five of the rank 5 abilities. Again, where did you get that 4 tier 3 abilites cost 12 credits? I think four tier 3 abilities cost 3 credits. The rank does not determine cost, not that I have seen anywhere.

(Weeohhweeohh) #71

[QUOTE=tokamak;279266]20 instead of 25 then. The rest remains, you need to pay the lower tiers before getting the higher tiers. You have 25 slots to fill (4 classes, one generic), having them all filled is not possible, if you want 20 filled you cannot have anything above tier 1. If you want 4 tier 5 abillities then you have spent 4x5=20 coins on 4 abilities that fill 4 slots.

It doesn’t seem tier 5 abillities exist in the first place, 3 seems to be the highest. 4 tier 3 abillities cost 12 coins, means you have 8 left to spent on other things.

Bottomline is, specialising costs resources, as it should be. There’s a balance between width and depth here.[/QUOTE]

Do you know something we don’t? I haven’t heard either way about the cost of abilities, but my thinking is that they all cost 1 coin. Some abilities like heavy turret have a prerequisite attached to them (you have to buy light and medium turrets first) so I guess you could say the heavy turret costs 3 coins. I would assume other abilities work this way. You first have to purchase health buff 1 and then purchase the upgrade(s).

Edit: To further the point. To pick up the heavy turret (rank 5), you first have to pick up light turret (rank 2) and medium turret (rank 3). For a total of 10 coins if we go with what you are proposing. Seems way too steep of a price for 1 active ability.

(RAAAAAAAAAAGE) #72

By having a steep cost are you not further balancing the game though? If the cost of epic gatling turrets is too low maybe you’ll fine a clan of 5 players in a game who have to defend a certain area and they all have gatling turrets plus lots of other abilities that makes it almost impossible for the attacking team to win.

But if the cost of these turrets is high it might decrease the likelyhood of such an event occuring.

That’s all purely speculative though

(Weeohhweeohh) #73

[QUOTE=RAAAAAAAAAAGE;279291]By having a steep cost are you not further balancing the game though? If the cost of epic gatling turrets is too low maybe you’ll fine a clan of 5 players in a game who have to defend a certain area and they all have gatling turrets plus lots of other abilities that makes it almost impossible for the attacking team to win.

But if the cost of these turrets is high it might decrease the likelyhood of such an event occuring.

That’s all purely speculative though[/QUOTE]

I’m just saying it’s too steep to be rational. Half of your total coins are spent on 1 active ability? That just seems ridiculous to me.

(tokamak) #74

That would be absolutely ridiculous. That would mean all tiers have the same cost within a build making the lower tiers completely trivial.

No I’m not buying that. You may get all your credits back, but you still need to ‘own’ the lower tiers before you get to use the higher tiers. I’m not basing this on sources, just common sense, though I acknowledge that such sense isn’t too common around here.

That’s because there most likely won’t be such thing as tier 5 abilities. One ability that would be as valuable as 5 tier 1 abilities wouldn’t be balancable or interesting. Really what would a tier 5 turret encompass, a rocket-firing gatling flamethrower laser?

Abilities will run up to 3 tiers, that means you can still sink almost all your points in only 5 abilities if you really want to.

(Weeohhweeohh) #75

[QUOTE=tokamak;279321]That would be absolutely ridiculous. That would mean all tiers have the same cost within a build making the lower tiers completely trivial.

No I’m not buying that. You may get all your credits back, but you still need to ‘own’ the lower tiers before you get to use the higher tiers. I’m not basing this on sources, just common sense, though I acknowledge that such sense isn’t too common around here.[/QUOTE]

I’m a little confused with your statement. Are you saying that respeccing should only refund you 1 coin? As I understand it (that’s not saying a whole lot mind you), when you respec (a la dragon age 2/borderlands/WoW) you get all your skill points back. That’s the system I assumed would be in Brink.

Not trying to come off as an ass (mostly because I’m a nice guy and I respect a lot of what you say on these boards), but how is purchasing buff life 1 (or any of the Rank 1 skills) a prerequisite for me to pick up the Rez grenade? Do you think SD will make someone buy skills they have no intention of using? I want the rez grenade, but I have to spend coins on 3-5 active abilities I will never use or map to my active slots? Doesn’t seem like common sense.

[QUOTE=tokamak;279321]That’s because there most likely won’t be such thing as tier 5 abilities. One ability that would be as valuable as 5 tier 1 abilities wouldn’t be balancable or interesting. Really what would a tier 5 turret encompass, a rocket-firing gatling flamethrower laser?

Abilities will run up to 3 tiers, that means you can still sink almost all your points in only 5 abilities if you really want to.[/QUOTE]

I would like to see some links to where we can find any of this info. Speculation is one thing, but I would need a “jump to conclusions” mat to understand what you just wrote. Again, not being an ass, just completely confused at your statement.

(tokamak) #76

I’m a little confused with your statement. Are you saying that respeccing should only refund you 1 coin? As I understand it (that’s not saying a whole lot mind you), when you respec (a la dragon age 2/borderlands/WoW) you get all your skill points back. That’s the system I assumed would be in Brink.

What I’m saying is that you shouldn’t be able to use respeccing to drop the costs of your higher tier abillities. A rank 5 (tier 3) turret will cost you 3 coins to use because you still need to own the previous turrets before you can use them. The lower tiers are not like scaffolding that is removed once the building is completed. They can’t be spent elsewhere.

In that regard, someone who wants to have all his class abillities to be tier 3 will have to spent 15 coins on his build (provided there are indeed 5 tier 3 abilities), leaving him with 5 coins to spent elsewhere. An extremely inflexible but highly specialistic build.

(Weeohhweeohh) #77

I kinda understand what you are saying now and I was ready and willing to invest in the other 2 turrets to get the upgrade, but it would seem silly if I had to invest a coin into Nerves of Steel just to get weapon buff 2.

Some abilities will have upgrades, some won’t. If you want the upgrades, you will have to invest points into the previous iterations. I think the turret is the only ability that has more than 1 upgrade. IMO, there isn’t Nerves of Steel 2 or 3, it’s just nerves of steel and what I’m thinking its gonna cost 1 coin and won’t have the ability to be upgraded further. SD said they cut a whole lot of abilities that just “buffed” other things without adding anything else to the game.

Edit: Snap, I just figured out what you are saying. No, not every ability has an upgrade.

(Cankor) #78

This doesn’t apply to all abilities though. In fact, they said they threw out a bunch of abilities simply because they were more powerful versions of ones they already had. they weren’t compelling and amde things much harder to balance.

So chances are many rank 5 abilities will cost just one rank (that’s the unit of measurement since a rank = an ability)

Also, my understanding is you don’t get anything back at all when you respec. But they also said it’s not that big of a deal, it’s not like a RPG where level 5 takes twice as much XP as level 4 which takes twice as much as 2. It may not be linear, but it’s probably not a real steep curve.

(BioSnark) #79

The common alternate pre-req route that avoids some balance issues with trees would be something like, for example, lvl x+1 medic ability requires at least 1 point in lvl x medic abilities. In other words, using class + level for prerequisits rather than specific chains.

Another method of limiting them is setting limits on the number of top level abilities a char can buy or spec.

Personally, don’t care whether abilities have pre-reqs as long as they are balanced w/ or w/o them.

(Cankor) #80

I think the key point here was made earlier: the more powerful abilities are suposedly the earlier unlocks (like increased health meter). Therefore why would you pass them up for a higher level unlock which supposedly just gives you more options?