Edge Online Looks at Balancing Brink

(tokamak) #101

It’s not unreasonable of me to think that a tier 3 turret actually IS better than a tier 1 turret right? My point is that as long as this thing doesn’t cost more than it’s lesser versions, there’s no reason not to take it, which means the lower versions are a temporarily stepping stone while levelling and nothing more.

If the tier 3 turret does cost more than the rest (and I still think i will, and if not, it ought) then you can weigh it’s cost against it’s role in your build. Perhaps you indeed want a turret as a nice distraction tool, if that’s all you need then the tier 1 will suffice and you can spent coins you cut there on something else.

And the same goes for abilities that are obviously more powerful. If they don’t cost more than others then they become no-brainers and that’s what you want to avoid at all costs. Cookie cutter builds severely compromise the gameplay and replay value of a game.

(Herandar) #102

Arguably the most powerful and effective ability in the entire game is the universal level 1 health boost.

Since we’re playing with semantics now, I feel it is very misleading to call the ability pages ‘trees’. There are only a couple of abilities that have pre-requisites (eg turret & Improved buffs).

The third turret does cost more, simply because it requires that the other two turrets be purchased first. The turrets seem to be more of an exception to the way most abilities are handled, however. The Lazarus Grenade does not replace anything, and therefore is the same as most abilities.

(Weeohhweeohh) #103

[QUOTE=tokamak;279572]It’s not unreasonable of me to think that a tier 3 turret actually IS better than a tier 1 turret right? My point is that as long as this thing doesn’t cost more than it’s lesser versions, there’s no reason not to take it, which means the lower versions are a temporarily stepping stone while levelling and nothing more.

If the tier 3 turret does cost more than the rest (and I still think i will, and if not, it ought) then you can weigh it’s cost against it’s role in your build. Perhaps you indeed want a turret as a nice distraction tool, if that’s all you need then the tier 1 will suffice and you can spent coins you cut there on something else.

And the same goes for abilities that are obviously more powerful. If they don’t cost more than others then they become no-brainers and that’s what you want to avoid at all costs. Cookie cutter builds severely compromise the gameplay and replay value of a game.[/QUOTE]

Now I’m thinking we are arguing the same point. I do indeed (and have thought) that the heavy turrets or any upgrade for that matter should cost more.

(Herandar) #104

Uprades do end up costing more because they require the base ability also be purchased.

(Weeohhweeohh) #105

My bad, I was simply trying to configure my explanation into something I’m familiar with. When I said tree, I was simply referring to class/universal ability pages. Brink is a new format with new terminology sorry if I confused anyone.

Indeed. I was saying that should be the case from the get-go.

(Cankor) #106

[QUOTE=tokamak;279561]I really don’t think we’re on the same page.

No offence here, it’s not your fault and you obviously don’t mean to, but what you’re saying now is very ambiguous and vague. I stand accused as well, I haven’t been to clear either.

It just shows that the English vocabulary falls short on accurately discussing game mechanics. Tokens, ranks, tiers levels, and what not are all things that seem to be interpreted by different people.

I’m not really interested in discussing mid and low game. These are phases that eventually will pass. The end-game is where it’s at.

So in the end-game, using the turret example, if all the abilities have the same cost in all regards, why would anyone use a tier 1 or tier 2 turret over the tier 3, the gattling turret? Do the lower tiers only exist to give the levelling players something to play with, doesn’t that mean that in the end we effectively end up with less viable abilities and thus less variety?

It sounds really lame.[/QUOTE]

OK, for the Turrets, you can’t just buy tier 3 without first buying tiers 1 and 2. Maybe that’s the part that we’re off on. For the abilities that come in tiers (more powerful versions of the same thing), you can’t just wait and buy the most powerful, so that tier 3 turret effectivly costs 3 level credits.

So if you have a tier 2 turret, and 1 level credit to spend, you may decide it’s betters pent on something other than making your turret incrementally more powerful.

(tokamak) #107

We’re not arguing semantics at all, it’s just that the discussion won’t go anywhere if we have different definitions of the words we’re using. If everyone has a different idea of what each of us means then this is an absolute waste of time.

The point remains, the power of an ability should be reflected in it’s cost. The upgrades are an elegant solution to make certain abilities more costly, but then you can wonder why the double standard for abilities that aren’t upgrades.

(Cankor) #108

Not sure what definitons we are using differently.

Definitions:

Level Credit = currency to purchase abilities, 1 per level gained. (It says level credits in the UI)

Your tier thing I took to mean a more powerful version of an ability. Is that not what you meant?

What is the double standard you are referring to on abilities that aren’t upgrades of other ones?

(Nail) #109

some higher tier abilities aren’t upgrades but still only available at a higher tier, methinks he’s wondering why they don’t have a higher cost because of their tier status

(tokamak) #110

Powerful abilities that are upgrades have the cost of requiring lower tiers. ‘Single’ powerful abilities have no such costs. That doesn’t seem balanced to me.

(Nail) #111

the higher tier abilities also seem to come with higher cooldown rates, so powerful isn’t neccessarily right, useful would be more like it imo

adavantages would be hard to define for anyone less than uber player

(tokamak) #112

Well I mean generally more powerful. If that extra health really matters so much and is so much better than other abilities then people need to pay for that.

Abilities never shouldn’t have a reason not to be taken. Intentional triple negative.

(Cankor) #113

OK, I see.

I guess we just have to wait and see how powerful some of those abilities are. All I know is they were putting the particularly powerful ones in the lower ranks so everyone has a choice of using them early on.

I suspect lots of it will depend on how you like to play, something you really like and is effective for you may not be as effective for someone else. So from that standpoint “powerful” is subjective. It’s also relative to the other abilities (this is what makes them “powerful” in the frist place of course), maybe they are very well balanced against each other.

(Nail) #114

well, you still have to earn your rank up, that’s what unlocks the tiers, you still have to earn the coin, don’t want to be taxing people as well

:wink:

(tokamak) #115

I guess we just have to wait and see how powerful some of those abilities are. All I know is they were putting the particularly powerful ones in the lower ranks so everyone has a choice of using them early on.

I’m only interested in the end-game balance.

maybe they are very well balanced against each other.

Which still wouldn’t justify the difference in costs for single abilities and upgraded abilities. That is unless all abilities really are balanced against each other and the upgraded ones really are twice or trice the value of such a single ability.

That’s an external cost, which plays no role in the balance.

(Herandar) #116

And my point remains that all abilities should cost the same. And technically, they do.

(tokamak) #117

They don’t. A level 3 turret costs more than an individual ability.

Furthermore, there’s no substantial value to letting all abilities cost the same, especially not if they’re not all equally valuable. It only means that some abilities will be more cost-effective than others which would be terrible.

(Herandar) #118

I shouldn’t have said that, since it is totally speculation. We have no idea how much each ability costs. Wait and see, I guess.

So, Tok, which is more powerful, Scavenge, or Grenade Shooting?

(Weeohhweeohh) #119

Oh boy. Looks like this thread is getting another booster shot. Popcorn

(tokamak) #120

(equally) Highly situational abilities are of the same value. Also you yourself said that one of the most powerful abilities is available from the start which suggests that you as well believe there will be a difference in value.