Easy spawn-camping on both new DLC maps.

(SinDonor) #1

There are two bad spawn-camp areas, one on each of the new maps, right at the first spawn. An experienced Defense team can easily spawn-camp the Attackers, as described below:

Founders’ Tower: If the Res team can defeat the Sec’s initial push into the Lobby Door Control area, they can then work their way towards the Sec spawn area. This is an area that is very easy to camp. I’ve been able to get all the way down to the Spawn side exit area at the bottom right, and get myself into the Butterfly Corner so the auto-turret can’t see me. From that location, I can easily snipe and lob grenades into their spawn.

Here is that area (screenshot from the Brink wiki):

Labs: If the Sec team can defeat the Res’ initial push into the Elevator room, the Sec can setup a few players on each curved ramp outside, go all the way down near the bottom of the ramps and look right into the Res spawn. The auto-turrets don’t even fire at you even if you’re looking right at them. If you shoot at the auto-turrets, you get the warning that “YOU’RE IN THEIR SPAWN AREA!” but the auto-turrets don’t fire back.

Here is that area (screenshot from the Brink wiki):

My suggested solutions:

Founders’ Tower: Move the bottom right Auto-Turret to the left so it can see someone in Butterfly Corner and perhaps add some glass walls/barriers up the larger ramp in that area that the Attackers can hide behind as they work their way up.

Labs: Put the Auto Turrets closer to the bottom of each ramp and give them a longer view range so the D can’t just park themselves in plain sight of the Attackers’ spawn and snipe.

(Hot-Wire) #2

Nothing a EZnade can’t clear :P.

(SinDonor) #3

Waaaaaaay easier to EZ-Nade down into the Spawn areas than up from it.

If you have 1 medic, 2 assaults, and an engy in each spawn camp team, they can last for a long time. Especially if 1 or 2 of them are heavies with EZ-Nades. They’ll rain down the pain.

An experienced Attacker team would have an easier time breaking a spawn camp, but if the Attackers are a team full of mixed-skill randoms, it’s impossible.

(Hot-Wire) #4

Just needs 1 skilled eznader to know how to arc it just right to cause massive headaches to the spawn camping team. … Just gotta make sure the randoms are soaking up the enemy bullets :D.

(SinDonor) #5

Sounds good in practice. Good luck against a team of 5-8 players that are all level 20+ and are in the same XBL chat together.

Last night, even when a player or two snuck past our team, they got chewed up by turrets and mines and any other players coming back from our spawn.

(QUIK420) #6

This is a problem with ANY map. I have been camped and camped at the spawn of CC, sec tower, resort, reactor, refuel, etc. If you are on a team that isnt too good and who constantly uses the same tactics (AKA going to same way every time) you can get spawned camped in pretty much any level.

(Hot-Wire) #7

[QUOTE=SinDonor;365902]Sounds good in practice. Good luck against a team of 5-8 players that are all level 20+ and are in the same XBL chat together.

Last night, even when a player or two snuck past our team, they got chewed up by turrets and mines and any other players coming back from our spawn.[/QUOTE]

Dude if I was against 8 players and I was by myself or with randoms, I’ll just stop going for the objective, because I know there is no way… and just go for kills and buffs.

Might as well get some exp to level myself if I’m here.

(SinDonor) #8

In Labs, the biggest issue is that you can stare at the attackers’ auto-turrets and they don’t fire while you have an DIRECT-LINE-OF-SIGHT into their spawn room from those ramps. It’s worse than in CC, since in CC they can at least stay back and buff each other before they make a push. In Labs, I can watch them pop into their spawn from the ramps.

In Founders Tower, it’s a bit easier to get out thanks to the spread from the ramp to the balcony and the tall-walled paths up top in that area. But, if the D team is set up, it’s easy to completely shut down the ramp, forcing all the players to try the balcony.

Once again, an experienced attacker team will have an easier time busting out of ANY spawn camp, but against a team of half noobs, it’s near impossible. Go ahead, ask WolfNemesis. He got stuck playing on the noob side for a few rounds and I don’t think he was having an easy time.

(Nexolate) #9

I have to admit I’ve seen this happen on Founders’ Tower a couple times myself. I don’t understand why they didn’t just merge the start and forward spawn points together (with say, a staircase) and then just move the nearby Command Post somewhere further ahead. Would go some way to solving the problem as Security would then have 2 routes out from their spawn.

Regards,
Nexo

(SinDonor) #10

[QUOTE=Nexolate;365917]I have to admit I’ve seen this happen on Founders’ Tower a couple times myself. I don’t understand why they didn’t just merge the start and forward spawn points together (with say, a staircase) and then just move the nearby Command Post somewhere further ahead. Would go some way to solving the problem as Security would then have 2 routes out from their spawn.

Regards,
Nexo[/QUOTE]

Good idea, I wonder how much freedom they have with editing maps. I can understand adding an object or two, or moving an auto-turret, shouldn’t be too much to update. Could they include that in a large patch or would it have to a larger DLC update?

(Nexolate) #11

Here’s a couple pics of the areas in question. Anyone with basic SDK knowledge could make a rudimentary staircase to connect the two spawn areas. It probably wouldn’t take much more to disable the “forward” spawn either, it doesn’t really help the Security get to the front lines any faster once the objective moves to the elevator.

Possible staircase location:
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/9594/brink2011080519544989.jpg

Command Post that would have to be moved:
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/1782/brink2011080519581413.jpg

Regards,
Nexo

(FrankieGodskin) #12

I spawn camp on every map, regardless of whether I’m attacking or defending. Every map has an exploitable chokepoint near a spawn.

(wolfnemesis75) #13

[Xbox]Its hard to make the spawn areas so that nobody gets trapped. There needs to be a tutorial about not hesitating at spawn. Good advice to new players when starting out on attack:

[ul]
[li]Ready up! Tap tap tap A so you are part of the first deployment. Don’t watch the entire cinematic. You are not at the movies, son. This is war. Don’t get caught waiting as some of your team deploys. This is a huge rookie mistake and can be disastrous against a good defensive team.[/li][/ul]

[ul]
[li]Make sure you have an objective class ready before you deploy if possible, or quickly switch at command post. Know the Obj Wheel so you can change to a class in a half second.[/li][/ul]

[ul]
[li]Focus your efforts on the Obj Class if its an HE plant especially.[/li][/ul]

[ul]
[li]Buff as you run. Don’t hesitate and wait for stragglers on your team OR heavies. An HE plant is best done by either a light or Medium.[/li][/ul]

[ul]
[li]HE charge/Hack Box can be removed resulting in catastrophic repercussions and multiple failure can spell doom.[/li][/ul]

[ul]
[li]Stay with your team mates. If you are by yourself, find a buddy. [/li][li]Be persistent.[/li][/ul]

[ul]
[li]If totally trapped in Spawn. Focus on getting out (rather than fighting) using speed and quickness. Then try to create a diversion. Or set small goals, like capture a command post, or build an MG nest.[/li][/ul]

(SinDonor) #14

Those are some good tactics, Wolf.

Once again, I think that the ramp spawn camp on Labs is still the worst. You can see directly into their spawn area, watch opposing player pop into the game as they respawn, and the auto-turret staring right at you from 30 yards away doesn’t fire. It is lame. Needs fixing. With two camping fireteam, one on each side, of one medic, and two or three assaults, the campers can last for a while and snipe attackers as they respawn.

(DirtFist5000) #15

New maps and dlc didn’t solve jack ****, then. That’s what I’m getting. Still the same old POS game. Goodbye to all you ****in geeks

(SinDonor) #16

A very intelligent and insightful post as usual. Thanks for your contribution to the conversation.

(thesuzukimethod) #17

Haven’t played Labs that many times yet, or have I :rolleyes: but quite a few, and have yet to see spawn camping…but

there’s a difference between a genuine layout problem (i think C City is a good example of a map where if the attacking team is not on top of their game, it can get ugly) and stomping on the throat of an under-matched team. I’m not suggesting to not try, but if one team is a group of people who play together (and have played the maps more, strategize, communicate, etc.) and the other is a group of randoms (who even if they are good players, might not have their teamplay quite as polished or worked out), it’s not all that inconceivable that you might be able to push them back to the brink, (as it were).

I’ve played some matches where the other side is just stomping my side (either b/c we are undermanned, or underskilled as a team), and i just imagine them strutting and thinking that they’re the ****ing boss of Brink - all the while, 1/2 my team rage quits, and are replaced by either more bots, or new people who are dumped into a spawn camp (kudos to those who tough that out). if there was cross-team VOIP at that point, I’d probably politely congratulate the opposing team for creating such an enjoyable experience for the opposing side. lol… you either just made some people hate this game (temporarily or permanently) OR you just created a whole new group of spawn campers that are gonna haze the **** out of the other side when they have the chance.

So in some ways this is a map design problem, but in some ways it’s a sports/games-manship problem. not trying to flame, not saying anyone here is a vinegar+water spawn camping bastard (b/c it’s probably safe to say that we’ve all been there - on both sides - i know i have:(), but there is something to be said for pulling back and letting the other side have the first objective once it’s clear that not only are they not gonna get it, but that they’re not even gonna get out of their spawn. it might seem patronizing, but it gives the upper-handers a chance for a challenge, and it gives the other side a chance at all…probably more fun for both sides?

(SinDonor) #18

When we’re at an obvious spawn camp situation, we usually back up a bit to let the team out and complete the first obj. Especially at CC.

Last night was hilarious though. We backed up with 4 minutes remaining and they still didn’t come out and plant a charge. They had 7 humans on their team, with 4 assaults, and nobody planted a single charge! Wtf???

(wolfnemesis75) #19

Sometimes it comes down to Brink rewards an Aggressive Push, while other games penalize it (COD). And I’ve noticed even more after the DLC, that many are fighting this concept. They are used to an entirely different strategy and FPS game, and as a result sit back and fire and play defensive when on offense. Their front is slowly driven backwards like a tug of war they are losing, until they are pushed into spawn. CC is the one map where this happens AND the defenders have high ground and all sorts of vantage points at their disposal to negate progress.

(nephandys) #20

Sin remember those 3 min lab wins though? We pretty much spawn camped the def team while on off every match their last night. I’m not saying it’s perfection due to that, I’m just pointing out the reverse is true on labs and many other maps as well.

Unless teams are close to evenly matched, spawn camping seems to be the name of the game here.