Downed -> Revive Suggestion

(Ardez1) #1

Plenty of times you will be wasting your ammo shooting at a downed player(if they are farther away/Nader) and they get revived right before they would be gibbed. Correct me if I am wrong, but currently there is no penalty for that.

I would propose a change so that your health total upon revive is penalized based on the amount of health lost while in a downed state. Not sure if this has been suggested before, but it was just something I was thinking about today.

With this your bullets aren’t completely wasted AND people are less likely to complain about the revive shield/revive speed. The logistics of the penalty is obviously up for debate(or the outright shooting down by a dev).

(crimsonYouth) #2

I like this idea! The medics revive spam needs a tiny little nerf anyway.

(avidCow) #3

I don’t think this is an elegant solution. If a prone player is near death, what is the total health negation on revive? This method actually makes last gasp clutch revives a liability. Reviving someone with 15/20/25% health?

(crimsonYouth) #4

Maybe 25% is the least amount they can be revived with?
maybe the -HP% can be based on the amount of damage and how much the defib was charged?

(Ardez1) #5

Currently total health on revive is 50% with a quick tap on E, 100% with a full charge and 75% if you have the Get Up augment and use the quick tap. Roughly.

Willing to concede that nobody should be revived with 10% or less HP, so let’s call the minimum health on revive 20%.

So how about this

<><><> NOTE: I don’t know how much HP a downed player has, but the goal is to penalize for remaining HP from total HP of a downed merc. I don’t know that number currently, so I will be substituting it with the MAX HP of the merc. This is most likely inaccurate, so please bear with the math. <><><>

HP = Total remaining health until gibbed
DEF = Total Defib Charge, 0% charge being 0.5 and 100% charge being 1
MAX = Maximum HP
REV =Total health on revive

(MAX*Defib)(HP/MAX)

Example
Arty
MAX = 110
DEF = 0.5 (Quick tap of E, so 0% charge)
HP = 31 (So he has been shot a bit while down and is almost dead)

(110*0.5)(31/110)
55(.28)=15.4

REV=15.4
Then some script would need to be applied(or just fancier math that I can’t do).
IF REV < MAX0.2 THEN REV = MAX0.2

Alternate Example

Fragger
MAX = 150
DEF = 1 (Full Charge)
HP = 132 (Shot once)

(150*1)(132/150)
150(.48)

REV = 132

Thoughts? Suggestions? Corrections?

(Ardez1) #6

@avidCow

Many sawbonez will throw a medpack on a larger hp merc before reviving them so they don’t need to charge, and it also gives a greater purpose to Aura’s healing station and future medics heal abilities.

The revive shield would still exist, so the potential liability will have to wait for a second :stuck_out_tongue: Hopefully by then the merc can get into cover or more HP. Not to mention if they go down again it gives another chance for the medic to get a stronger revive off. Besides, a clutch revive is TOO strong at the moment - if the player revived has the skill. There is no downside to revives at all right now.

(vdll) #7

I’m kind of embarassed now, since I didn’t know that fully charged defib gives full HP (I thought it only gives more dmg to the foes).

(watsyurdeal) #8

I’d rather they reduce how much damage you can take while downed per revive.

1st death: 100%
2nd death: 75%
3rd death: 50%

This way you can only be revived 3 times before becoming easy to finish off, even at a long distance. Punishes people for dying but not Medics who are just doing their job.

(Ardez1) #9

[quote=“majesticClue;19485”]I’d rather they reduce how much damage you can take while downed per revive.

1st death: 100%
2nd death: 75%
3rd death: 50%

This way you can only be revived 3 times before becoming easy to finish off, even at a long distance. Punishes people for dying but not Medics who are just doing their job.[/quote]

This is also a good idea. Whatever works to nerf the current system :slight_smile:

Even then, maybe be a bit more harsh with the penalty? Something like 100%, 70%, 40%?

I do primary as medic atm, so I spend a good amount of time considering the current system. The invul and revive rate seems fine, but the amount of damage needed to gib is what I see as the biggest flaw in the revive system and many of the existing complaints truly stem from that(whether the player thinks about it or not).

(watsyurdeal) #10

Well considering the ttk, you’re looking at killing someone in less than half a second on the 3rd down they are downed.

Take the M4, takes about 5-10 shots to kill someone, on the 3rd down, they will die in 3-5 shots…that’s VERY fast and more than enough to deny a revive.

(Runeforce) #11

No. The player being downed should not be penalized, because the player that downed him fucks up and wants compensation for his inability to follow through.

(watsyurdeal) #12

How did they fuck up when they won the fight against someone, only to be suddenly attacked by 2 people because it’s not possible to deny a revive in the time it takes to gib someone with bullets. It’s basically the exact same amount of time it took to kill them, so you have to kill someone twice to deny a revive, or knife them, which is basically putting you at a severe risk if you weren’t already in knifing range to begin with.

(Runeforce) #13

You can’t have your cake and eat it too. It’s about priorities. Gibbing is a binary action.

(watsyurdeal) #14

And Medics can’t and shouldn’t be able to revive multiple people a multiple number of times without any penalties.

The Defib currently has no recharge, no windup except for full health revives, and provides a shield on revive, protecting the patient and the Medic.

While the person who just killed them, now has to fight two people, is likely at half health, and has less ammo. Even if you took that scenario and made it two people vs two more, it’s still the same thing since one group has a Medic, the others do not.

That’s how the Meta is currently, more medics = you win.

That’s just as unbalanced as the whole more fraggers = you win, both sides need to be regulated and balanced out. Fragger is getting there, as is Nader and any other merc with some type of explosive, but Medics need to a bit of balancing as well, most importantly being able to deny them a revive. Since the effort to gib someone, is vastly more than it is to revive them as a Medic.

(Ardez1) #15

Let’s not collapse into fighting :frowning:

(Runeforce) #16

That could not be further from the truth! You can only revive if you are close (untill Sparks comes back) and you move slower with your defibs out, than with your knife. Plus you can gib from distance, but the medic can’t revive from the distance (untill Sparks comes out.) In all, it is heavily stacked in favor of the gibber, against the medic.

(watsyurdeal) #17

[quote=“Runeforce;19531”]
That could not be further from the truth. You can only revive if you are close (untill Sparks comes back) and you move slower with your defibs out, than with your knife. Plus you can gib from distance, which you can’t as a medic (untill Sparks comes out.) All are stacked in favor of the gibber, against the medic.[/quote]

Except that

  1. Killing someone from a distance to gib them will likely take anywhere from 0.67 or more since their head may not be exposed, and you have to compensate for spread.

  2. Again, you are likely low on health and ammo in your current clip, the Medic likely has full health, and a full clip, and the time it takes to revive someone is literally as fast as pressing a button and being in range. You do NOT need to walk with your defibs out to revive them, you can simply press E to interact or press the quick ability button to quickly revive people.

  3. If you choose to gib with your knife, you better be close enough to get to them in time, because the Medic is able to revive and quickly switch back to their primary, and you on the other hand have your knife out against two people with fully loaded guns and one of them is invulnerable till he takes the first shot at you.

The Medic is at no disadvantage, to say he is false, the Medic doesn’t have to give up anything other than placement and a brief quarter of a second to revive someone. That process occurs so fast that it is virtually impossible to counter.

And not even that, what if I managed to kill more than one person?

What if I killed two people at about medium range, and I have to finish both of them off before a Medic arrives? Not going to happen, if the Medic is there, he can revive both people before I even have a chance since it takes on average 1/3 of a clip per person, and you can’t finish off two people at a time with anything other than your knife. And again, getting in knife range isn’t always the smartest idea since you are likely to be going into a gun fight against more than 1 person.

(Runeforce) #18

‘What-if’, my ass! Repeating falsehoods does not make it true. But I believe you honestly believe it (not the thing about falsehoods, but your arguments.) I just disagree.

(watsyurdeal) #19

Same could be said to you honestly, cause I have not run into one scenario where I felt I was at a disadvantage reviving someone as a Medic.

(Runeforce) #20

But you still have not given a compelling argument on it. You sound more like ‘I am frustrated about the mechanics, because I feel they do not favor me (and the style I’ve learned and am used to,) and I want them changed, instead of learning and adapting to them!’
All I see is a subline of ‘It’s unfair!’ (While in fact you are the part being favored.)