Downed Fire

(zenstar) #21

Yes and no… cortex bomb is super short range. It’s useful when you’re downed close to a group of people, but if you’re downed a little further away then downed fire is more useful.
Plus some people have a preference for one over the other.
More tools for the Op to use would make him a better class.

(bluefoot) #22

Sorry, but you’re doing it wrong if you find problems with downed fire. The delay between death and equipping of the secondary weapon gives more than enough time for any decent player or team to take out the ‘dead’ person.

I get huge numbers of kills with it sometimes against poor teams or new players … but very, very rarely against anyone decent (even if I’m totally outplaying / scoring them).

There are situations where it can be useful, but it’s not remotely a balance problem, especially as all classes and body types can use it.

IMO, cortex bomb can be a lot more problematic (though still not a balance issue).

(tangoliber) #23

Its just extra health, in a different state. As long as you don’t think that down means dead, then there is nothing wrong with it.

If your complaint is that you might not have time to finish them off because other people are around, or because you need to reload… then that is not much different than if they just had more regular health. The difference is that they are in a weaker state, and you are able to make decisions about whether to finish them off, or avoid them, or try to finish off another player first, or kill the escort or whatever.

As we know, there is no “skill” in the gunplay of Brink. Like it or not, the biggest element of skill in Brink…the only area where there is some sort of infinite skill ceiling…is in the decision making during chaotic situations. This is most evident during the escort missions. You come behind 3-4 defenders, who are around the escort and a teammate, who was just killed or not finished off, and a turret that needs to be taken out eventually and the skill is in deciding how you handle the situation, so that by the time your team is respawning, the escort is the furthest along that it could possibly be. Whether you revive the escort first before they notice, or you attack first…who you attack first…where you use your grenade (on the turret or on an opponent…when you revive your teammate if at all… Like it or not, the skill in Brink lies in navigating the chaos and making the best decisions. I suppose it is more like a MOBA than an fps…though admittedly I’ve never played a MOBA. Downed fire adds to the chaos and adds more things for the decision maker to think about. In an FPS based on gun skill, it would be out of place…but in Brink, it fits the gameplay accordingly.

(Zekariah) #24

[QUOTE=tangoliber;387585]Its just extra health, in a different state. As long as you don’t think that down means dead, then there is nothing wrong with it.

If your complaint is that you might not have time to finish them off because other people are around, or because you need to reload… then that is not much different than if they just had more regular health. The difference is that they are in a weaker state, and you are able to make decisions about whether to finish them off, or avoid them, or try to finish off another player first, or kill the escort or whatever.

As we know, there is no “skill” in the gunplay of Brink. Like it or not, the biggest element of skill in Brink…the only area where there is some sort of infinite skill ceiling…is in the decision making during chaotic situations. This is most evident during the escort missions. You come behind 3-4 defenders, who are around the escort and a teammate, who was just killed or not finished off, and a turret that needs to be taken out eventually and the skill is in deciding how you handle the situation, so that by the time your team is respawning, the escort is the furthest along that it could possibly be. Whether you revive the escort first before they notice, or you attack first…who you attack first…where you use your grenade (on the turret or on an opponent…when you revive your teammate if at all… Like it or not, the skill in Brink lies in navigating the chaos and making the best decisions. I suppose it is more like a MOBA than an fps…though admittedly I’ve never played a MOBA. Downed fire adds to the chaos and adds more things for the decision maker to think about. In an FPS based on gun skill, it would be out of place…but in Brink, it fits the gameplay accordingly.[/QUOTE]

This…

The whole point of the game is the decision making. Just decide to finish your kills and then you don’t run the risk.

(tangoliber) #25

[QUOTE=Zekariah;387586]This…

The whole point of the game is the decision making. Just decide to finish your kills and then you don’t run the risk.[/QUOTE]

There are many cases in which it would be a smarter decision to not finish your kills though. :slight_smile:

(VG_JUNKY) #26

especially if you have to run into a group of enemies to do so (if your not dead yet)
or
if you want to stick around for a trusty medic to pick u up(in downfire)
:slight_smile:

(Covan2306) #27

Yup, but if you make this decision, you should be aware that “downed fire” man is there and to keep moving.

Only good suggestion i could think of as a fix/nerf would be downed fire does show targets, should be down to spray and hope, same a flash gangbangs

(Darksider) #28

Stop your whining and just play better…
Downed Fire lets you shoot even when you’re incapacitated, but only with your backup weapon, and only after an initial delay. You will have almost no Health while Incapacitated, making it easy for enemies to finish you off. With that never had an issue with people using downed fire, because they never have a chance to use it, i usually just melee them to death or use my gun the midst of gun-fighting multiple targets.

(Oz70NYC) #29

Anyone with the gall to complain about downed fire being OP is obviously the chumps getting their kneecaps shredded in half by it. Because you’re dumb enough to get killed by someone with the ability it should be nerfed or removed? There’s about a 2 second delay before downed fire “kicks in” when someone’s incap’d. Plenty of time to finish them off. Smart people would make note of who has downed fire, and make it priority to finish them off completely when they take said player out. I myself get bled out all the time by the people I normally play with, because they know I’m surgical with downed fire. It’s not about it being OP, it’s about the TC sucking at detecting who has it and constantly getting killed by it. Suck it up and deal or go play something else. I have no pity for people who bitch about something being OP when it’s a matter of them simply not being good against what they’re complaining about.

(zenstar) #30

I wonder if the difference of opinion on downed fire is a console vs PC issue?

The mouse aim makes downed fire more “worth it” on PC than on console.

Just a though. I notice most of the people that dislike downed fire are PC players and most of the people who don’t care are console players. (generalisiation obviously… no actual studying went on here. could be wrong).

(.Chris.) #31

It only has to happen a few times to make it annoying, I only died to it a few times, doesn’t make it any less lame or cheap. You assume because I’m moaning about it means I’m somehow not a good player or some crap and constantly got killed by it, nope, it’s a crap idea plain as. Next you’ll be saying we should just man up and make do with the terrible maps.

Suck it up and deal or go play something else.

Already have done, so have a lot of players.

(Darksider) #32

[QUOTE=.Chris.;387677]It only has to happen a few times to make it annoying, I only died to it a few times, doesn’t make it any less lame or cheap. You assume because I’m moaning about it means I’m somehow not a good player or some crap and constantly got killed by it, nope, it’s a crap idea plain as. Next you’ll be saying we should just man up and make do with the terrible maps.

Already have done, so have a lot of players.[/QUOTE]

If you’ve moved on then stop huffing and puffing like a Drama queen then.:tongue:

(zenstar) #33

Ah yes. The good old ad hominem attack gets broken out.

Put simply: General discussion board. Everyone here has a right to discuss and even negative feedback is good for the game as long as it’s kept constructive (which .chris. always does strive for). If mods feel things are going the wrong way they’ll step in.

If they fixed the things that drove people away then maybe they’d be able to entice them back. If the people that left never gave their reasons why they left then noone knows what to fix.

(Fetter) #34

Seriously. I consider Downed Fire to actually be a disadvantage to take. How many times does Downed Fire get kills against good players? Not so often. Compare that to the revives you could have gotten if you hadn’t been gibbed, and I think it becomes pretty clear that Downed Fire is more of a “for fun” option or a means of making the enemy paranoid than an actually powerful skill.

(Fetter) #35

Seriously. I consider Downed Fire to actually be a disadvantage to take. How many times does Downed Fire get kills against good players? Not so often. Compare that to the revives you could have gotten if you hadn’t been gibbed, and I think it becomes pretty clear that Downed Fire is more of a “for fun” option or a means of making the enemy paranoid than an actually powerful skill.

(tangoliber) #36

It really depends on the size of the match. For a long time, I never used downed fire, because I believed in having the extra health for medics to revive you and the fact that its hard to kill a good player with it. In 5v5, that may still be true. In 3v3, I’d now say that downed fire is the better choice. Its not about getting the kills as much as it is forcing the opponent to deal with one more thing, adding to the chaos of his surroundings.
Back when I had a team, at the beginning we would never use downed fire. Over time I changed my Brink strategy to a much more aggressive one that focused on keeping defenses from ever being able to set up comfortably, and downed fire became a vital element of maintaining chaos.

(BioSnark) #37

The mp fps game world should present a consistent set of mechanics for the player to interact with and, in turn, the player should be highly accountable for the success or failure of their interactions. Inconsistent mechanics are a large part of why the player base left Brink, long before bf and codmw 3 were released. That, at least, was the feedback, here. If you aim at someone and fire, you might hit or you might not. If you tell your character to climb a wall, they might do it or they might do something else. If you down an enemy, they might stay there, they might resume shooting at you or they might blow up. The problem is not that the enemy’s weapon might be less inaccurate than yours.

(tangoliber) #38

There are enough visual clues to tell you if they have downed fire, if they can blow up, or self-revive…with the exception of when the downed fire body is obscured by another body (which leads me to believe that there should be a downed fire icon, as we have an operative and medic icon.) As I argued in my earlier post about the “skill” in Brink, this mechanic is, like it or not, consistent with the kind of game that Brink is. You may not like the game that Brink is though, and that is fine.

(Darksider) #39

[QUOTE=zenstar;387737]Ah yes. The good old ad hominem attack gets broken out.

Put simply: General discussion board. Everyone here has a right to discuss and even negative feedback is good for the game as long as it’s kept constructive (which .chris. always does strive for). If mods feel things are going the wrong way they’ll step in.

If they fixed the things that drove people away then maybe they’d be able to entice them back. If the people that left never gave their reasons why they left then noone knows what to fix.[/QUOTE]

Apparently Chris change his comment about MOVING ON… That was what my reply toward him was about.

(.Chris.) #40

What? I’ve not changed any comments.

You get little notice at bottom when a post has been changed.