Does Phantom make the game more fun?

(lasttcaliente) #21

phantom must be balanced

(capriRocket) #22

ofc its fun getting 6 kills at once, at the same time i feel bad for the enemy.

i had more fun playing db before he came, the game feels a bit like a bad joke now.

why play fletcher or some other merc when i get awesome offense, awesome defense and extreme flexibility in one merc?

i play him then after 25-0 it feels pointless and i go play quakelive where encounters are about pure skill.

dont get me wrong, playing dirty is fun, making use of abilities and such but playing phantom doesnt feel like playing dirty, it feels like playing lame.

(impeccableBloke) #23

I have a idea for phantom. Just disable his defusing, arming c4, reparing and take emp charges fonctions.

(Akselmo) #24

Only fun when you’re playing as him.

I miss the prepatch Dirty Bomb, it was fun.

(Keldrath) #25

No, he slowed the game down.

(ebonyMountain) #26

Not every game needs an invisible dude(tte). It works in Dota, because the game is slower and the focus is much more on the big game. 1v1 are part of dota, but not the focus. DB thrives on 1v1s around the objectives.
Invisibility works as an power up in arena games (and mostly 1v1v1v1…), because it is a very short burst of power and the power up itself can be contested.
Everything it does, is already possible with good use of movement and fast, hardhitting mercs and good map design. If SD thinks, that maps are stalemates, they should redesign them.

(civilTriangle) #27

A Melee-oriented character, in my opinion, should be focused almost completely around melee. Guns should be an after thought. Going melee only means that you are good (or a cocky bitch) so you shouldn’t need guns or gimmicks like invisibility mostly. I already talked about what I think would be the perfect melee mercenary in my mercenary suggestion ([Merc] Ryu) but I’m just saying. If you are a melee character, then you should stick to melee only. Nothing else.

(Roldoi) #28

While it is true he is keeping teams together, unless you have tanky merc, he just slaughters them in seconds. I’ve seen him butcher 6 people in a row…on a 12 person server. He’s quite literally causing desert servers cause no one likes cheap deaths

(savoryLettuce) #29

That happens when 6 people have no situational awareness whatsoever…
I yesterday played Phantom nearly without cloak on one server and still ran a really good K/D because players NEVER looked behind each other or checked any corners i could sit in the corner then walk behind a group of three and kill them one after another without using cloak once…

Communication, Teamwork and Awareness are needed but a lot of people don’t have that or use that.

(DMaster2) #30

Communication, Teamwork and Awareness are needed but a lot of people don’t have that or use that.
[/quote]
I don’t know how the teams in comp works because i almost never play competitive, but in casual you don’t have those, even simple things like revive and ammo requests get ignored most of the times. People just quit in casual if the oppo phantom is destroying them

(GregHouseMD) #31

I’d like to revise what I said earlier.

I was just in a game ( 7v7 ) where the opponents had, in the end, 4 Phantoms. All it boiled down to was they ran around our spawn indiscriminately killing us. It was … not fun. And considering I’d brought mostly light mercs, I had no answer. If I tried to run, I just got melted by a KEK. If not, stab stab.

Needless to say, I am not happy about this in the least. There’s no counter play here, no opportunity to play smart. With other mercs, at least there’s only certain areas you need to avoid ( i.e. tight passages, or corners ). With Phantom it’s literally everything, all the time, and most of the time it doesn’t matter, as it takes about as much firepower to bring him down as it takes to bring down Rhino.

(capriMonorail) #32

If SD is going to go for a fast paced arena shooter speed with objectives, then no he doesn’t belong. This is the game where there are supposed to be fronts, and if you manage to get the flank on any other merc good on you because you managed to sneak past the whole enemy team and that’s their mess up. With Phantom it happens so often that I am constantly checking around me slowing down the fast paced push that I installed this game for.

(watsyurdeal) #33

How doesn’t he belong but Vasilli or Rhino do? Or hell even Aura and her ability for that matter.

The reality is the Phantom is only as good as you allow him to be, his effectiveness is amplified by lack of communication and teamwork, the better you are at those things the harder it is for him to do work.

That said, I wish they’d drop the armor or at least make 50% instead, and just give him full invisibility unless he sprints, jumps, or takes damage. Then he’d actually be useful in comp.

(GregHouseMD) #34

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;44430”]
The reality is the Phantom is only as good as you allow him to be, his effectiveness is amplified by lack of communication and teamwork, the better you are at those things the harder it is for him to do work.[/quote]

I’d really like it if someone explained this to me.

I’ve said it before, about other mercs. Nader, for instance. It’s easy to explain, though: If you know Nader is coming, you don’t stay in tight halls. You find open spaces. And so on.

I don’t see it with Pantomime. He could be camping around a corner, and by the time you hear his cloak activate, you really don’t have an answer. So, what, avoid any area where that could happen? It’s literally everywhere. Communicate? And then what? He’s still there, and he’s still ridiculously hard to kill. If he doesn’t just escape.

(watsyurdeal) #35

[quote=“GregHouseMD;44445”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;44430”]
The reality is the Phantom is only as good as you allow him to be, his effectiveness is amplified by lack of communication and teamwork, the better you are at those things the harder it is for him to do work.[/quote]

I’d really like it if someone explained this to me.

I’ve said it before, about other mercs. Nader, for instance. It’s easy to explain, though: If you know Nader is coming, you don’t stay in tight halls. You find open spaces. And so on.

I don’t see it with Pantomime. He could be camping around a corner, and by the time you hear his cloak activate, you really don’t have an answer. So, what, avoid any area where that could happen? It’s literally everywhere. Communicate? And then what? He’s still there, and he’s still ridiculously hard to kill. If he doesn’t just escape.

[/quote]

Just freaking coordinate

Also, you wanna know how easy it is to counter him

(GregHouseMD) #36

I don’t know why I expected a proper answer.

(watsyurdeal) #37

How is it not a proper answer? You don’t want to deal with him, and I showed the simplest way to do so, and you’re still not satisfied.

It’s not my fault if you straight up ignore any advice. That doesn’t make him overpowered or whatever, it just means you refuse to learn from your mistakes cause it’s easier to say he’s unbalanced, he’ll get fixed soon.

(GregHouseMD) #38

I guess I was expecting an answer that was constructive, rather than condescending. I think I’ve been playing this game long enough to be entitled to at least something like an opinion. I’ve also never struggled with other mercs like I’ve struggled with Phantom. What I’d appreciate is for someone who seems to know everything about countering Phantom to get off their high horse, drop the condescending attitude, and try to actually be constructive and actually address the issue beyond smug one-liners.

(watsyurdeal) #39

So you want me to baby you about things you should already be doing like…

  1. Sticking together, not going out on your own where you can be picked off or outnumbered.

  2. Using your mic to communicate where the enemy is and what your status is

  3. Aiming for the enemy’s head

  4. Strafing so that your crosshair lines up with their head, and paying attention to and predicting where the enemy will strafe. Like, are they right handed? They may strafe to your left, or vice versa. Is there a wall next to them? Is there a corner you can use to bait them? Simple stuff like that.

  5. The cloak emits an audible hum, like I showed in my video, you can easily hear it and look around for him. And his cloak is not completely invisible.

  6. If he does come after you, back pedal, obviously.

  7. The main trick to getting him is paying attention to the noise, and where he typically likes to go. Is often in the same place? Expect him there.

  8. If he’s using his gun it’s just a matter of out dm’ing him like any other merc.

This is all stuff you SHOULD already be doing, and if you’re not, start doing it.

(GregHouseMD) #40

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;44483”]So you want me to baby you about things you should already be doing like…

  1. Sticking together, not going out on your own where you can be picked off or outnumbered.

  2. Using your mic to communicate where the enemy is and what your status is

  3. Aiming for the enemy’s head

  4. Strafing so that your crosshair lines up with their head, and paying attention to and predicting where the enemy will strafe. Like, are they right handed? They may strafe to your left, or vice versa. Is there a wall next to them? Is there a corner you can use to bait them? Simple stuff like that.

  5. The cloak emits an audible hum, like I showed in my video, you can easily hear it and look around for him. And his cloak is not completely invisible.

  6. If he does come after you, back pedal, obviously.

  7. The main trick to getting him is paying attention to the noise, and where he typically likes to go. Is often in the same place? Expect him there.

  8. If he’s using his gun it’s just a matter of out dm’ing him like any other merc.

This is all stuff you SHOULD already be doing, and if you’re not, start doing it.[/quote]

You couldn’t drop the attitude for a single post. You sure are a pillar of the community.

I’m already doing all those things, so . . . thanks for trying? I still die a heck of a lot more to him, than I do to literally any other merc. It’s partly just the volume of them, yes, but my Phantom encounters end with me dead more often than other encounters.

I think you’re missing the point, though. Phantom always gets to set the terms - if he wants to, because he can afford to take the time. Aiming for the head and backpedaling works if he’s running around like some kind of headless chicken. If he bides his time and is careful, any amount of backpedaling isn’t going to matter, as your TTK will still be longer than it takes him to get in sword range.

On the off chance you do chuck a grenade at him first, or something, Phantom will still have most, if not all his HP left, and can easily retreat, wait 6 seconds, and come back. Invisibility isn’t the issue - it’s the armor.