Does Nader feel like the most unskillful elements of FPS rolled into one?

[Szakalot]

I’ve made a flow chart for people that can’t handle martyrdom; enjoy

http://s29.postimg.org/6hastht13/flowchart.jpg

[488s40]

A quick guide: Are Nader grenades coming dangerously close? GTFO. If not, you’re good. If they’re closing in, and you can’t GTFO because you’re in a corner or some other inconvenient place, you made a mistake and are being punished for it.

Problem is, they rush in a couple of Naders, you get out, you lose the objective, because it only takes about 3s to plant or defuse. If you dont get killed by Nader, you will be zoned out just by her showing up.

As for Fragger, his grenades are predictable because you can always tell when hes using it. If he just stops shooting at you, of course he’ll be using his grenades and if you can get away, he’s already wasted half of his grenades. You see 1 nades from Nader and run away? Better not show up in her face again 'cause shes got 4 more and they regenerates at a stupid fast rate.

And just let me make it simple. Im not saying that you dont need to learn to play well with Nader. If the best result possible you can get with 1 class is 10, then every other class starts at 1 and Nader starts at 5.

But you can say that about a lot of the other classes, can you not abuse Fraggers nades? Kiras orbital strike? Proxy mines? Fletchers stickies? I mean, easy to pickup, hard to master is kind of the name of the game here. Against better players, just spamming your nades won’t do you any good.

I mean i’d love to abuse Fragger’s grenades but he only has 2 of em, orbital strike has a hell long cooldown, proxy mines cant be throw in your face and explode instantly and again, you can only have 2 at a time. And spamming nades of course is not your best move, but it can always get results, if you dont get kills with it, you still force people to move, which gives you and your team a position advantage.

[crimsonYouth]

[quote=“kAndyREW;39084”][quote=“crimsonYouth;39035”]Really… this thread again?
You can tell 100% of the time who has martyrdom and avoid them after you down them.
Cough Nader Cough

L2P, Get gud, or get rekt ;P[/quote]

while i’m not gonna say “L2P” but nader’s martyrdom is pretty easy to avoid, unless you kill her in melee range… but even then, there have been times when I would spam long jump away and I’ve been able to survive the blast… Just takes time to get used to the awareness. I mean she can’t kill you with martyrdom unless you decide to get close/stick around [/quote]

I put a wink face at the end hoping people would not take that last line seriously… it was a joke.

[enchantingSubmarine]

being able to at least pineapple nader would be nice (with plus one sec to the fuse time when pick up)

[ostmustis]

dies to naders martyrdom and complains that the game doesnt reward skill? fanni boi

[Gi.Am]

[quote=“488s40;39256”][quote=“GregHouseMD;39065”]

A quick guide: Are Nader grenades coming dangerously close? GTFO. If not, you’re good. If they’re closing in, and you can’t GTFO because you’re in a corner or some other inconvenient place, you made a mistake and are being punished for it.

[/quote]

Problem is, they rush in a couple of Naders, you get out, you lose the objective, because it only takes about 3s to plant or defuse. If you dont get killed by Nader, you will be zoned out just by her showing up.

As for Fragger, his grenades are predictable because you can always tell when hes using it. If he just stops shooting at you, of course he’ll be using his grenades and if you can get away, he’s already wasted half of his grenades. You see 1 nades from Nader and run away? Better not show up in her face again 'cause shes got 4 more and they regenerates at a stupid fast rate.

And just let me make it simple. Im not saying that you dont need to learn to play well with Nader. If the best result possible you can get with 1 class is 10, then every other class starts at 1 and Nader starts at 5.

But you can say that about a lot of the other classes, can you not abuse Fraggers nades? Kiras orbital strike? Proxy mines? Fletchers stickies? I mean, easy to pickup, hard to master is kind of the name of the game here. Against better players, just spamming your nades won’t do you any good.

I mean i’d love to abuse Fragger’s grenades but he only has 2 of em, orbital strike has a hell long cooldown, proxy mines cant be throw in your face and explode instantly and again, you can only have 2 at a time. And spamming nades of course is not your best move, but it can always get results, if you dont get kills with it, you still force people to move, which gives you and your team a position advantage.
[/quote]

You are pretty much giving Naders job description she is an Area Denial Merc. Her Nades are weak enough that the first won’t kill you making it a warningshot. If you don’t get moving when the first grenade marker shows up you are doing it wrong. Thats the whole point landing directs is all nice and the way to go in direct duels. But at the end of the day her job is flushing out and breaking up defensive positions.

Denying the objective or any other position is what she is designed for.

As for Fragger, most of the times the first thing you will see of him is a primed nade in your Face instagibbing you.
1 of his grenades has a higher radius and twice the damage compared to a Nader nade. He can gib with it Nader can’t (which is a very valuable ability in this game). He can shorten the fusetime to greatly reduce your ability to dodge it Nader can’t. Fragger has more HP and stronger Primary weapons.

And because of all that he is the stronger Merc.

[Zerlathon]

I don’t think she’s that bad tbqh, I tend to really get collared in instances where she is not alone (as by habit I prioritise anyone who is still up over someone incapacitated) or if I’m being a little knife happy.

My main gripe, is the “popularity” of nader. It’s frustrating when you are on a team jammed packed full of them, and makes playing any sort of support a nightmare (especially a medic)!

I prefer playing the support classes (mainly proxy and sawbonez), and when I see 50% or over of the team playing nader I just stick exclusively to proxy. Playing any medic in this scenario is pointless, as most (if not all) of the naders I have seen just spew out nades, die, and then immediately blow themselves up.

In a game where teamplay is key, I find it really frustrating when players just flick the button hoping for a cheap kill and pretty much ignore objectives.

I’m sure there are good naders out there, but I’m yet to see 1.

[DakDay]

I also think Nader’s Martyrdom needs some readjusting. The only reason why, is because after you kill an enemy, 1v1, you try and kill them on the ground, preventing revivals. And Nader is just a lure into that, killing you for something that you are trying to prevent. And does Nader’s Martyrdom kill her all the way, past revival? That seems kinda stupid, reviving seems much more effect. Can someone say for sure, if the Martyrdom kills Nader? Having a chance for revival seems much more desirable, plus if Martyrdom doesn’t kill Nader it should.

P.S. I used to get hit with the Martyrdom all the time, I’m recognizing it a lot more now!

[Szakalot]

@DakDay Starting martyrdom gibs you, even if you get revived mid-grenade.

[GregHouseMD]

Problem is, they rush in a couple of Naders, you get out, you lose the objective, because it only takes about 3s to plant or defuse. If you dont get killed by Nader, you will be zoned out just by her showing up.

There’s no objective I can think of that has only one possible approach and one possible location to defend it from. If a ‘couple’ of Naders rush the objective, someone ought to have a good sense to hit them with a frag grenade and take care of the problem. Or an orbital laser. Or their own Naders ( slightly less effective, on account of not gibbing ).

And just let me make it simple. Im not saying that you dont need to learn to play well with Nader. If the best result possible you can get with 1 class is 10, then every other class starts at 1 and Nader starts at 5.

Let’s dispense with the numbers, because you can’t quantify that. What you’re saying is Nader is more forgiving to new players. It’s probably true that, in a situation involving all new players, Nader has some kind of advantage; people don’t know where to go, not to knife her, and so on.

Nader is also much more difficult to play well than many other mercs, because that requires that you master the tricky art of scoring direct grenade hits. Also, once people reach a certain skill level, Martyrdom is only useful for discouraging people from approaching for a few seconds.

[scrub_lord]

Matrydom is useless against competent players. Nader is only a problem if there is more than one spamming her ability. The same can be said for basically any other Merc. This is why tournys limit class selection. Pubs will never be balanced.

[Azure_Emulation]

[quote=“Szakalot;39240”]I’ve made a flow chart for people that can’t handle martyrdom; enjoy

http://s29.postimg.org/6hastht13/flowchart.jpg
[/quote]

I’m gonna go post this on the Steam Community hub quickly.

[PurpleNurple]

All I want is the free rotation for her to end. It’s not that it’s hard to beat Nader it’s just so annoying that you have to slow down the way you play and wait for the horribly placed nades to blow up. Especially when you have new players spamming her nades around every corner. Playing against 5 noob naders isn’t fun what so ever.

[Disquieted1]

[quote=“Kay-Dubz;13446”]
It basically rewards players for poor play. You can get into unwinnable fire fights simply hoping your opponent doesnt realize they are facing a Nader. Or even if they do realize it, if you are in close quarters there’s a slim chance they can get away from the grenade in time.[/quote]
This. I tried Nader on free rotation and now refuse to play her due to how easy it is to play.

On top of this, she’s also the grenade launcher character of the game. So essentially the developers have taken two of the most despised weapons people use in FPS games, and combined them into one character.

For a game that touts itself as being about skill, gunplay, and aiming… a character like Nader sure does reward a lack of all three.

To be fair, Nader does need a little aim to launch her grenades. Bring the crosshair up to launch, bring down to shoot SMG. On that note, Nader’s grenade launcher functions more as a third gun than an augment of her character. Giving her that much (and I think too much firepower).

Now I do feel the grenade launcher isnt too terrible as in other games…seeing as there’s a decent delay on their explosion if you miss your target. Hence gun vs grenade launcher isnt a good matchup against someone with decent aim. Plus the blast radius seems fair enough. But I definitely feel martyrdom requires some amount of tweaking.

This all said, the reason I took notice of it was because of the new merc rotation. I saved up to by my Nader…but I dont use her all the time. But I definitely took notice to her “cheapness” after seeing teams filled with Naders blasting “noob tubes” everywhere and getting a lot of marty kills.

Martyrdom rewards you for dying. That shouldn’t be a thing considering Dirty Bomb should be a skill based game. I can see it still be a part of the game, but the radius and damage shouldn’t be as high as they are now. Quite possibly a “last-10-hp” kind of thing, but not taking a Proxy from full health to 0.

I just feel that a game that touts itself as being about skill should not reward a lack thereof. The only skillful thing I can think about Nader is sacrificing herself on a kamikaze mission to clear an area, knowing her goal is to use martyrdom.

Fragger can do that too, and arguably better. I once got an ace with a Fragger kamikaze.

I used to do this with Proxy…and tbh, praised the fact that her mines take a few seconds to arm (which adds balance). I just feel Nader’s explosion is very quick once the grenade drops…especially considering how long the cook times can be for Fragger when he throws a nade.

Agree.

[Ravenor]

The only issue i have with Nader ( and this cannot apply to competitive) is that 1 Nader is scary…her point denial is top notch and a skilled Nader who can hit direct shots is lethal to a team…but when you are facing 2-3 even 4 Naders all you end up facing is a constant barrage of nades if you are not an assault class…could very well get you killed by splash

But that logic can be applied to a few other mercs.

[LJK]

A Fragger half teamwipe with one well coocked grenades, no one bats an eye.
A Nader martydom one guy and everyone loses their minds!

[shroudedMacadamia]

I am just a random scrub but you know something is wrong it if even a casual like me can pick up nader, walk out of the game with a K/D well above my avarage and on top of it be mvp in terms of score on my first game with her.

[canzpl]

to the people complaining about how “noob” the nader is and her martyrdom is just an “unskilled tactic for noobs”, “game pormotes skill but with maryrdom bla bla bla”

the game does promote skill with the martyrdom. you have to be skilled to finish a nader from a distance, hence not getting killed by a grenade. a noob will fall for it. a skilled player will stand back. end of discussion

[Yak]

I am just a random scrub but you know something is wrong it if even a casual like me can pick up nader, walk out of the game with a K/D well above my avarage and on top of it be mvp in terms of score on my first game with her.

Not at all, seeing as the entire point of Nader is to kill people. She’s not a medic, she can’t heal or revive fast, she’s not an objective specialist, and she can’t give ammo. She should have a high K/D, same with Fragger and Rhino.

[watsyurdeal]

[quote=“Yak;40116”]
Not at all, seeing as the entire point of Nader is to kill people. She’s not a medic, she can’t heal or revive fast, she’s not an objective specialist, and she can’t give ammo. She should have a high K/D, same with Fragger and Rhino. [/quote]

This is a good point for everyone to remember, if she’s good at her job, can you really complain?

I mean nobody complains about how good of a Medic Sawbonez is, or Skyhammer as a Support class.