Does Fletcher Really Need to be Changed?

(Eox) #41

[quote=“Eox;150020”][quote=“ZeroFactor;149997”]Rather than a nerf, I would prefer a balance change to make him more like the rest of the engineers: Defensive. As of now, fletcher is really more of an assault class than an engineer and is just about as powerful as some of the assault classes, if not more so. I would love to see the stickies implemented as a defensive weapon more than an assault. (though still make them applicable to assault)

TL;DR: Make fletcher more like the rest of engies, defensive based[/quote]

First, Fletcher absolutely does not share the power of an assault class. Comparing him to the raw power of Fragger or Nader is seriously flawed : Fragger can clear whole team in a chokepoint with a single powerful blast and Nader is not half bad at clearing a room as well, thanks to her slightly higher detonation radius and five grenades stock. On my side, I NEVER was able to kill more than two person with a single triple sticky bomb detonation, and catching two players in your explosion is already extremely difficult, unless the whole team in front of you is made of suicide Proxies. Not only counting the fact that throwing all three stickybombs takes time and is very risky : you oftenly get killed before you have the time to trigger them. Second, we don’t need another defensive engineer for the sake of diversity. Fletcher is supposed to be versatile : impairing his offensiveness would just kill that.

Making Fletcher more defensive is just the worst idea I could ever imagine. Making a merc with manually triggered explosive more defensive is just a flawed concept : babysitting your own traps is not fun and far less effective than a trap that will trigger by itself like a Proximity Mine. None of the Fletcher mains want to play him just to look at his own bombs permanently. We like Fletcher because he has a different and quick playstyle, not because we like to wait for hours to catch a level 6 Proxy at the objective point.[/quote]

If you read my post, you can still oneshot any classes 100hp and below with a successful stick, that’s still fucking generous for an Engineer class[/quote]

Do you realise how hard it is to direct hit someone with the sticky bombs ? The projectile is very slow. As long as someone does not hug you at close range scoring a direct hit is far from being an easy task. Add to this the very limited splash radius of sticky bombs. 100 damage on direct hit for a single person is deserved. Especially since I had to do a skillful throw. Proxy can deal around 170 damage in a huge splash radius just by planting a mine in a corner, I can’t see why I can’t deal 100 damage for managing to directly hit someone with a non-hitscan projectile. Not talking about Bushwhacker : the turret can oftenly kill too and create 1vs2 combat scenarios in your favor.

Seriously, if everyone just stayed at mid range while fighting Fletcher there wouldn’t be any complaints at all.

(nokiII) #42

@Dawnrazor You’re fighting a losing battle here…fletcher needs skill! SKILL!
In all seriousness, everyone who says fletchers stickies are fine is just delusional.

(Ritobasu) #43

[quote=“Eox;150022”]Do you realise how hard it is to direct hit someone with the sticky bombs ? The projectile is very slow. As long as someone does not hug you at close range scoring a direct hit is far from being an easy task. Add to this the very limited splash radius of sticky bombs. 100 damage on direct hit for a single person is deserved. Especially since I had to do a skillful throw. Proxy can deal around 170 damage in a huge splash radius just by planting a mine in a corner, I can’t see why I can’t deal 100 damage for managing to directly hit someone with a non-hitscan projectile. Not talking about Bushwhacker : the turret can oftenly kill too and create 1vs2 combat scenarios in your favor.

Seriously, if everyone just stayed at mid range while fighting Fletcher there wouldn’t be any complaints at all.[/quote]
I am talking about leaving the 100 damage for successfully stuck enemies. The splash damage and radius need to be nerfed along with removing the ability to airburst stickies.

Fletcher would still control space very quickly but he won’t be able to splash people for up to 100 damage with unstuck stickies (I’ve seen you state several times that they only do up to 80). Jumping monkey mains always talk about how easy it is to counterplay him, but they don’t realize that fighting a Fletcher up close in CQC is arguably much worse than fighting a Nader, especially now.

It’s time for you guys to be brought to reality and accept seeing your character next on the chopping block, because other characters who sure as hell didn’t deserve ANY nerfs at all had their turn.

(solace_) #44

guys, gotta remember this is just a friendly discussion alright? Im not a mod, but I have seen some stuff in the thread, and it would be best if they didn’t have to close the post because someone said something they shouldn’t have. So just cool it ok? its just a video game.

What I think we can all agree on though is that there are basically two schools of thought. He is fine as he is and he should be made more like the other engi’s. Perhaps the devs can find a compromise between the two.

(Eox) #45

Thanks for trying to keep the things civil. It’s not common to see this around the internet. :slight_smile:

(darlingClaymore) #46

GG you pissed off all fletcher fanboys. Just run. Anyways fletcher is a objective merc not a assault, He can be good but not as good as he is now

(civilProvolone) #47

If his stickies are nerfed more, or his guns are treated similarly, I want fletcher to be able to push the detonator when he is down, much like Nader can drop nades. I can understand if balancing takes him down towards a weaker or choke point engineer. But he should in exchange be given an ability that naturally makes sense (blowing up stickies already thrown rather than dropping them on death) while providing ‘umph’ to what could become an otherwise weakened ability in the future.

(bizarreRectangle) #48

Fletcher is fine, if you don’t get close to him or you don’t follow him then you can kill him.

Fletcher does not have the raw power of assaults. The splash damage is weak and the range is short. It also takes longer than simply shooting with a grenade launcher. If fletcher is throwing sticky bombs in plain sight while getting shot at, he will get nothing done.

He has to predict what his opponent is going to do and also use his surroundings to his advantage to lure people to a sticky bomb in their face. In this he is similar to the other engies, as mines and turrets also rely on acting according to what your opponent is going to do and mess with them. He’s just more fast paced.

And it’s not like the other engies are the same either.

(Trestos) #49

Nerf his maximum on stickies to 2 from 3 and increase his cd from 5 to like 7 or 8 nothing more. Fletcher is my main character and i have over 200 hours playtime with him.

If you go with the air explosion thing > do the same with fragger: You know he needs a remote for the explosion? - another nerf would be fine with increase the delay between the remote and the sticky bombs: so quick draw would make more sense compared with lock-on

Fewer explosion damage with stickies? do it on proxy mines too if we start at it? i always run in a mine and i am instadeath even with thunder

(bizarreRectangle) #50

I don’t understand what you’re saying. I think the current CD is 10 and he already has 3 sticky bombs to use.

(Verticules) #51

IMO, a small change is needed. Even as small as removing the benefit of using “4” over “Q”.
Fletch is not only the best looking Engineer, but he out performs the others as well.
I feel he needs a less rewarding spam, wether it be less aoe or slower.

(sgtCrookyGrin) #52

amazing in CQC, fucking useless across any other range -_-

(Naonna) #53

(Fun fact: if you hit the trigger for a sticky to explode, then die, the sticky still explodes even if you get gibbed, assuming the sticky hit the ground and not stick someone directly.)

There was a brief time for the CW where the delay for a detonation was increased: it didn’t really solve the 1-shotting light mercs problem, but it did encourage accuracy.

I wouldn’t mind the removal of air bursting: even playing AS Fletcher. Encouraging accuracy with throws and then rewarding the player for an accurate throw is fine: not just spamming and air bursting to hope for kills.

Spamming into a choke with explosives is Nader’s thing. Leave it to her. - For the brief time the ‘bug’ was around, it even felt better to play against Fletcher: knowing that if you got stuck, you deserved to die for chasing him, but if you saw a sticky land close to you, you had at least a brief moment to jump a little out of the way and not take the full 100 damage.

Forcing a sticky to land first wouldn’t especially hurt skilled Fletchers, but would punish spamming blindly to some degree.

(Again, tell me why I’m wrong below… you’re gonna do it anyways.)

Edit: I said tell me why i’m wrong: not just click the disagree button.

(Jesus) #54

lll hope they’ll destroy him and then it will be my turn to say. “It was deserved suck it up”.

(sonsofaugust5) #55

I rarely see fletcher in competitive or in high level competitive matches I’ve watched. Most players use bushwacker over fletcher. If you aren’t facing under 90 hp mercs you are probably dead before you can get a sticky and some shots off. Stickies are only really effective close range because of their slow velocity. KEK is much better than all of fletchers weapon options, unless you are really good at using the blishlok. Most players know how to avoid stickies because they take awhile to travel. Fletcher is only overpowered in close quarters against low hp mercs, which he would be anyways because he has shotgun options. Naders grenades also 1 hit low hp mercs and can be shot much faster. They also move at a faster velocity making them harder to dodge.

(sonsofaugust5) #56

I don’t understand why everyone is complaining about sparks nerfs. She still 1 shots 120 hp mercs from medium range as a medic and the revives are still effective. Sparks won’t 1 shot a merc across the map, which is a good fix.

(Naonna) #57

the ‘revives are still effective’ is debatable on maps like chapel. She’s still better than a pheonix, but… she doesn’t really fill her role’s proper full potential.

(sonsofaugust5) #58

[quote=“VerticallyObese;150519”]IMO, a small change is needed. Even as small as removing the benefit of using “4” over “Q”.
Fletch is not only the best looking Engineer, but he out performs the others as well.
I feel he needs a less rewarding spam, wether it be less aoe or slower.[/quote]

Watch dirty cups games, nobody is using fletcher. Good players don’t think hes that great if everyone uses bushwacker.

(sonsofaugust5) #59

[quote=“Ritobasu;150093”][quote=“Eox;150022”]Do you realise how hard it is to direct hit someone with the sticky bombs ? The projectile is very slow. As long as someone does not hug you at close range scoring a direct hit is far from being an easy task. Add to this the very limited splash radius of sticky bombs. 100 damage on direct hit for a single person is deserved. Especially since I had to do a skillful throw. Proxy can deal around 170 damage in a huge splash radius just by planting a mine in a corner, I can’t see why I can’t deal 100 damage for managing to directly hit someone with a non-hitscan projectile. Not talking about Bushwhacker : the turret can oftenly kill too and create 1vs2 combat scenarios in your favor.

Seriously, if everyone just stayed at mid range while fighting Fletcher there wouldn’t be any complaints at all.[/quote]
I am talking about leaving the 100 damage for successfully stuck enemies. The splash damage and radius need to be nerfed along with removing the ability to airburst stickies.

Fletcher would still control space very quickly but he won’t be able to splash people for up to 100 damage with unstuck stickies (I’ve seen you state several times that they only do up to 80). Jumping monkey mains always talk about how easy it is to counterplay him, but they don’t realize that fighting a Fletcher up close in CQC is arguably much worse than fighting a Nader, especially now.

It’s time for you guys to be brought to reality and accept seeing your character next on the chopping block, because other characters who sure as hell didn’t deserve ANY nerfs at all had their turn.[/quote]

Nader is a long range merc while fletcher is only powerful close range. Nader is not very good close range. If you miss a direct contact nade you have to switch to a gun and youre dead. Even if you hit a direct contact on a higher HP merc you still have to switch guns, by that time you are also probably dead.

(XavienX) #60

No, revert the jumpshot nerf, don’t add something else like it. Vassili is already dead, taking away one of his high skill reward kills. We don’t need Fletcher falling into that category too. Eventually this game will become CSGO where everything is tactical and Dirty Bomb will be renamed to Slow-Ass Pace.

For all you people saying, “Fletcher is too powerful, he kills me within 1 or 2 sticky bombs and they are too easy to be stuck on with no skill.”
Here’s some simple advice:

  1. Don’t follow a damn Fletcher.
  2. Run away while you can to get outta his damn reach.
  3. If you have no where to run, run close to him and run in zigzags or circles around him so he doesn’t know where to toss and would most likely not toss at his feet to just kill himself along with you.
  4. You can counter Fletcher now.