Does Bushwhacker need a buff to his turret?
99% of Bushwhackers I see simply use him and his sentry incorrectly. The damage potential of an easy-to-setup crossfire is huge, more than a lot of people realise. A Rhino that walks into a crossfire of a Bushwhacker with decent aim, and his Sentry, will fall in less than a second.
I’ve been playing Bushwhacker for a very long time, and while he’s not BAD, he’s definitely not as good as the other Obj Spec mercs. He used to be a lot better before the lock on nerfs.
Now I think he’s too inflexible and is really easy to outplay. Fletcher and Proxy can pretty much counter anything, but Bushwhacker’s turret is weak to so many mercs (pretty much anyone with explosives can screw up his turret without exposing themselves, Phantom can run straight past it, Thunder can disable it etc…).
I’ve been playing Bushwhacker for a very long time, and while he’s not BAD, he’s definitely not as good as the other Obj Spec mercs. He used to be a lot better before the lock on nerfs.
Now I think he’s too inflexible and is really easy to outplay. Fletcher and Proxy can pretty much counter anything, but Bushwhacker’s turret is weak to so many mercs (pretty much anyone with explosives can @$!# up his turret without exposing themselves, Phantom can run straight past it, Thunder can disable it etc…).[/quote]
That’s just what happens when a meta shifts
Maybe some time in the future there’ll be an augment where the turret will spot phantoms or Stoker’s incendiary gets a nerf of some kind, or maybe even Fletcher’s nerf is so big that it makes his sticky bombs basically useless. Maybe then Bushwhacker will be back at the top. Right now, Bushwhacker is fine. He’s a balanced merc and does his job well as an Objective Specialist.
[quote=“ProfPlump;174348”]I’ve been playing Bushwhacker for a very long time, and while he’s not BAD, he’s definitely not as good as the other Obj Spec mercs. He used to be a lot better before the lock on nerfs.
Now I think he’s too inflexible and is really easy to outplay. Fletcher and Proxy can pretty much counter anything, but Bushwhacker’s turret is weak to so many mercs (pretty much anyone with explosives can @$!# up his turret without exposing themselves, Phantom can run straight past it, Thunder can disable it etc…).[/quote]
Quit comparing classes there boy, makes ya seem whiny. If you want to talk about improving Bushwhacker then fine, talk about that.
Turrets are combat aids, not a replacement for a merc with a gun. Catching the enemy in a crossfire is a powerful tool. They are meant to delay and perform area denial so the team has time to cover.
All that being said, MY turrets get triple kills all on their lonesome quite frequently. Location, location, location. (same goes for proxy mines)
I’m on the fence about this one.
When I tried Bushwhacker, It seemed to me that the Turret alone wasn’t an effective way to do potent area denial or an effective way to earn kills. However I did noticed after a few hours playing him some extremely vicious turret spots where the Turret could rack up a nice number of kills/assist due to a both a strong presence of my teammates and a very hard spot to notice at first. In the end, the perfect spot is probably not a spot where your turret kills, but a spot where your turret assist a kill. Why ? Because the enemy might not notice your turret in the killfeed.
Also, I still shiver when someone mention TF2’s engineer, who is horridly stacked in asymetrical gamemodes as soon as you have to defend something. That guy very oftenly trigger huge and unfun stalemates if you pack five of him on basically any payload map. I definitely don’t want to see DB turned into the same turretfest.
The Turret is very useful when used correctly. However, I feel like Bushwacker depends too much on card perks compared to other mercs. Lock On on Fletcher and Proxy come close, but that and Steady seem almost mandatory oftentimes for Bush.
[quote=“Eox;174476”]I’m on the fence about this one.
When I tried Bushwhacker, It seemed to me that the Turret alone wasn’t an effective way to do potent area denial or an effective way to earn kills. However I did noticed after a few hours playing him some extremely vicious turret spots where the Turret could rack up a nice number of kills/assist due to a both a strong presence of my teammates and a very hard spot to notice at first. In the end, the perfect spot is probably not a spot where your turret kills, but a spot where your turret assist a kill. Why ? Because the enemy might not notice your turret in the killfeed.
Also, I still shiver when someone mention TF2’s engineer, who is horridly stacked in asymetrical gamemodes as soon as you have to defend something. That guy very oftenly trigger huge and unfun stalemates if you pack five of him on basically any payload map. I definitely don’t want to see DB turned into the same turretfest.[/quote]
I’m not saying we have to buff him in a defensive-only way. Perhaps his turret could set up faster, so you can play more aggressively as bushwhacker? He’s definitely underpowered for attack on comparison to Proxy and Fletcher, because they can throw mines and bombs around corners and blow up health stations and turrets, while Bushwhacker’s turret can only be useful on offence if he manages to sneak behind the enemy and get it set up before they notice (which just doesn’t happen in high level matches).
Meanwhile Proxy and Fletcher are still just as good at defence as they are on offence. As soon as they start to feel like they’re not going to win their fight, they can escape (Proxy can escape easier the Fletcher, obviously), and then lay down traps on pursuers (Fletcher is better at this, as Proxy’s mines are easy to spot, plus they take a little bit more effort to set up pre-armed). Yet, as soon as Bushwhacker’s turret goes down to an easy nade and then he has to retreat due to damage, he can’t lay any traps as he runs away (unless his turret’s timer has replenished, but even then that turret takes so long to set up that any pursuer will just kill him/it before it can do anything. He’s also the slowest of the three obj specs.
[quote=“MTLMortis;174449”][quote=“ProfPlump;174348”]I’ve been playing Bushwhacker for a very long time, and while he’s not BAD, he’s definitely not as good as the other Obj Spec mercs. He used to be a lot better before the lock on nerfs.
Now I think he’s too inflexible and is really easy to outplay. Fletcher and Proxy can pretty much counter anything, but Bushwhacker’s turret is weak to so many mercs (pretty much anyone with explosives can @$!# up his turret without exposing themselves, Phantom can run straight past it, Thunder can disable it etc…).[/quote]
Quit comparing classes there boy, makes ya seem whiny. If you want to talk about improving Bushwhacker then fine, talk about that.
Turrets are combat aids, not a replacement for a merc with a gun. Catching the enemy in a crossfire is a powerful tool. They are meant to delay and perform area denial so the team has time to cover.
All that being said, MY turrets get triple kills all on their lonesome quite frequently. Location, location, location. (same goes for proxy mines)[/quote]
No need to be a condescending prick about it, mate.
Proxy don’t have Lock On btw.[/quote]
It’s just an ambiguous phrasing.
What he meant to say was “Fletcher with Lock On, and Proxy come close”, not “Fletcher and Proxy with lock on”.
If that makes sense…
I think that the upcoming cards will probably be a nice buff for him, giving him better augments will help his cause
Proxy don’t have Lock On btw.[/quote]
It’s just an ambiguous phrasing.
What he meant to say was “Fletcher with Lock On, and Proxy come close”, not “Fletcher and Proxy with lock on”.
If that makes sense…[/quote]
Probably. Hope so.
Bushwhacker was, up until recently with the rise of people actually learning how to play Fletcher, was the meta go-to engineer. Most people I see on pubs use his turret incorrectly. Hell, most players drop it mid-fight or at the start of any fight then wonder why it’s not helping them a whole lot. Those people are all using it wrong. Bushwhacker requires map knowledge and strict placement of both the turret and the player to make use of it. It’s also handy while doing offensive flanking as you can come up behind some people, drop the turret immediately and start firing and they either kill the turret then try to kill you or try to kill you and ignore the turret. Either way they are dying most times. Proxy, after the semi-recent mine buff, is simply easier for the average player to use on pubs but still not a good comp choice most of the time.
I voted no change but if he needed a buff the only one I would suggest is allowing Bushwhacker to rotate his turret once placed. Right now turret placement is restricted because you always have to set it in front of you…which can be difficult to find good spots for it. However, if you could drop it then use your other ability key to rotate/interact with it you could put it in a lot more spaces with better angles and have it be hidden a bit better. It would make it a lot more versatile and SD wouldn’t have to resort to buffing it’s damage, HP or both…which I think would be just awful.
Bushwhacker is mostly fine. But engineer balance is messed up because Proxy sucks too much to be used seriously and Fletcher is too OP to even consider touching another engineer. That being said I wouldn’t mind being able to rotate turrets, if I can for instance place mines in extremely specific spots I don’t see why better turret placement would be a bad idea. Also I recall the OP saying some time ago that the Sturdy augment could use a small buff, that could be nice too for more loadout variety.
[quote=“Amerika;174977”]Bushwhacker was, up until recently with the rise of people actually learning how to play Fletcher, was the meta go-to engineer. Most people I see on pubs use his turret incorrectly. Hell, most players drop it mid-fight or at the start of any fight then wonder why it’s not helping them a whole lot. Those people are all using it wrong. Bushwhacker requires map knowledge and strict placement of both the turret and the player to make use of it. It’s also handy while doing offensive flanking as you can come up behind some people, drop the turret immediately and start firing and they either kill the turret then try to kill you or try to kill you and ignore the turret. Either way they are dying most times. Proxy, after the semi-recent mine buff, is simply easier for the average player to use on pubs but still not a good comp choice most of the time.
I voted no change but if he needed a buff the only one I would suggest is allowing Bushwhacker to rotate his turret once placed. Right now turret placement is restricted because you always have to set it in front of you…which can be difficult to find good spots for it. However, if you could drop it then use your other ability key to rotate/interact with it you could put it in a lot more spaces with better angles and have it be hidden a bit better. It would make it a lot more versatile and SD wouldn’t have to resort to buffing it’s damage, HP or both…which I think would be just awful.[/quote]
That’s interesting, because I remember seeing some of the old Dirty Cups before the Bushwhacker nerfs (in fact, it was so long ago that jump-sniping and moa insta-gibs were still in the game), and in those Dirty Cups pretty much every team ran a Proxy instead of a Fletcher or Bushwhacker. I think Linkzr (may be mispelled) was the only Engi player who used Bushwhacker at all, and the commentators were all very surprised by the choice to run him.
[quote=“ProfPlump;175114”][quote=“Amerika;174977”]Bushwhacker was, up until recently with the rise of people actually learning how to play Fletcher, was the meta go-to engineer. Most people I see on pubs use his turret incorrectly. Hell, most players drop it mid-fight or at the start of any fight then wonder why it’s not helping them a whole lot. Those people are all using it wrong. Bushwhacker requires map knowledge and strict placement of both the turret and the player to make use of it. It’s also handy while doing offensive flanking as you can come up behind some people, drop the turret immediately and start firing and they either kill the turret then try to kill you or try to kill you and ignore the turret. Either way they are dying most times. Proxy, after the semi-recent mine buff, is simply easier for the average player to use on pubs but still not a good comp choice most of the time.
I voted no change but if he needed a buff the only one I would suggest is allowing Bushwhacker to rotate his turret once placed. Right now turret placement is restricted because you always have to set it in front of you…which can be difficult to find good spots for it. However, if you could drop it then use your other ability key to rotate/interact with it you could put it in a lot more spaces with better angles and have it be hidden a bit better. It would make it a lot more versatile and SD wouldn’t have to resort to buffing it’s damage, HP or both…which I think would be just awful.[/quote]
That’s interesting, because I remember seeing some of the old Dirty Cups before the Bushwhacker nerfs (in fact, it was so long ago that jump-sniping and moa insta-gibs were still in the game), and in those Dirty Cups pretty much every team ran a Proxy instead of a Fletcher or Bushwhacker. I think Linkzr (may be mispelled) was the only Engi player who used Bushwhacker at all, and the commentators were all very surprised by the choice to run him.[/quote]
I’m not quite sure where you got your info. Everyone ran Bushwhacker in almost all cases. Proxy has almost never been used in serious play due to her low HP and mines not working very well in 5v5…and back then they were much easier to avoid. And her speed doesn’t really help a ton when everyone in the game knows how to aim well. So the extra HP on Bushwhacker or Fletcher helped a ton more. Just, at the time, Fletcher was new and people hadn’t quite figured out how to play him consistently yet. And this was when the Blishlok was weaker too and the Kek10 was more powerful which further lead to Bush getting the majority of engineer time on most teams.
Linkzr was also almost always playing Vassili and was rarely an engineer unless he switched to being a second one in some situations/strats.
Just, at the time, Fletcher was new and people hadn’t quite figured out how to play him consistently yet. And this was when the Blishlok was weaker too and the Kek10 was more powerful which further lead to Bush getting the majority of engineer time on most teams.
Also there was the bug, that made stickies disappear quite alot which made fletcher really unreliable to play.
Turret rotation plus minor HP buff would be fine I guess. I saw quite a few skilled players owning with stickies or even mines, but it’s rather hard to achieve this with turret (unless you dominate anyway).
I won’t mind a Bushwhacker buff…
Just to rotate his turret, and change Steady since it clearly doesn’t pull its weight. Steady could be like the Extra Supplies of deployables instead of just a health buff.