I ask because I haven’t used the M4 and Dreiss in quite a while, it just seems redundant. Why use Dreiss when you can use the Stark? I remember back when the M4 was the go to, now that seems to be the Stark.
So do they need a nerf? Or are they fine?
I propose for the Stark, a larger burst delay, largely increased spread and recoil, but very fast accuracy recovery, rewarding paused and considered shots. I don’t know about the BR-16 though, I feel reduced damage is enough.
[quote=“CCP115;28063”]I ask because I haven’t used the M4 and Dreiss in quite a while, it just seems redundant. Why use Dreiss when you can use the Stark? I remember back when the M4 was the go to, now that seems to be the Stark.
So do they need a nerf? Or are they fine?
I propose for the Stark, a larger burst delay, largely increased spread and recoil, but very fast accuracy recovery, rewarding paused and considered shots. I don’t know about the BR-16 though, I feel reduced damage is enough.[/quote]
I think that they’re in the right place. Sure, the Stark is the best gun in the hands of a good player, but the M4 and TIMIK offer a much easier-to-use gun for the newer players. It’s quite well designed, actually (although to be honest I doubt that Splash Damage actually meant it to turn out this way).
Basically, I’d rather see the pro players using the harder to use guns as preference, and be given higher rewards for that difficulty.
All I would say is that the Stark in particular does outclass the Grandeur a little too much right now, but I think this should be fixed with a buff to the Grandeur, not a nerf to the Stark.
The Stark is fine, but I think the BR16 needs to be buffed. Ever since they lowered the burst speed of the BR16, the Stark has been the superior burst rifle. In a game with such fast movement, the slow burst speed of the BR16 makes it far too difficult to hit multiple bullets per burst on a moving target, especially if that target is someone like Kira or Proxy.
@CamBrah slow? Both of the burst rifles shoot super fast and have way to high dmg…
Im talking about the rate at which the burst is fired (time between each bullet in the burst). There is quite a substantial difference between the Stark and the BR16.
I used to play the Stark all the time, and since the 10% nerf/buff between the Stark and Dreiss, I actually mainly use the Dreiss now.
The Dreiss can net you a lot of kills before your magazine even runs out, it’s a great weapon and in a really good spot right now. It works great on short/medium range, and is pinpoint accurate at long range, but requires some time for the animation/crosshair to settle.
Burst rifles, on the other hand, aren’t as good at short range as they used to be. The accuracy bloom very quickly punishes you for trying to shoot too quickly in succession, meaning that on short range, you’re at a huge disadvantage.
I would nerf rof on both of them, by how much i dont really know and reason for that would be that both of them are insane at close range which i think should not be the case.
Burst based weapons that have no real limitations (like huge spread from the hip) shouldnt have higher dps than full auto ones because its easier to reach your max dps with it. Right now both br and stark are very forgiving, you dont even need to go for headshots to win duels and i am not fine with that.
They’re in a perfect spot now. Both burst rifles have an insanely fast bloom, which is opposed to laserbeam m4.
I think that the stark is bit too powerful, it rewards skill a little TOO much. What I mean is that the skill required to use a weapon should not be proportional to the amount of power output you will get.
For example, Rhino’s minigun doesn’t require a high amount of skill to use, but it still has a good amount of power. The weakness lies in its versatility. On the other hand, the Stark AR, requiring considerably more skill to use effectively, shouldn’t have a way higher power output because of that.
What you’ll earn from using a difficult weapon shouldn’t be raw power, that should be more judged by the weapon class itself (SMG, Rifle, Shotgun, etc). The benefit should be versatility, and the ability to make use of something that’s hard to pull off with any other weapon. You might be able to use a weapon in a way that would be much more difficult with another weapon, and while not giving you a power increase, it will provide with other scenarios to work with.
So with the Stark, I feel like its damage output is a bit too high, I can imagine a slightly weaker rifle having the usefulness on range that the other rifles sometimes struggle with, without having additional power.
The burst rifles are strong because they allow you to quickly take somebody down and do it relatively safely if you have consistent aim. A lot of really good players have gravitated towards them due to this which makes them feel even more powerful than they are since they would also melt you with an m4. But the m4, due to it’s nature, requires you to be exposed a bit more than the burst rifles do so in a lot of situations which is why the bursts are starting to get a lot more mileage. Also, due to their burst nature, they can take down lower HP mercs without them being able to do much. For example…if you fought an aura with a blishlock and you’re using an m4 you guys will exchange for a while. You’ll probably win out due to HP difference but you’ll also probably take damage. In a BR vs. Blish battle you could end it with one click before it even starts. You have to be patient, not panic and keep up with her if you don’t kill, which is what makes the bursts a bit harder for new players, but a lot of players are finally starting to overcome that and figure things out.
It’s less about the guns being OP and more about them being situationally more useful at higher levels of play where cover shooting/running is more prominent. And with more good players gravitating towards it the gun starts appearing to be more powerful than it actually is…especially since the m4 is held pretty sacred as the “golden standard” that nobody wants to see changed.
Birst rifles are in a decent place. If anything, I wouldn’t mind the automatics becoming a tiny bit more accurate. I cite an extreme example, I encountered a hacker last weekend (first one in months) using an M4 Skybro and aimbot. He didn’t even cross my mind as actually hacking for a good portion of the game because the M4 is so innacurate at longer range (or at least when held down). I don’t think they should be more accurate than burst rifles, but the gap is a little too big right now IMO.
@Cam The Stark is indeed a stronger choice compared to the BR as far as TTK and bursts tracking goes, but since the spread nerfs, the Stark has been a rather equal IMO due to the worse bloom it has.
[quote=“Incoming;167839”]Birst rifles are in a decent place. If anything, I wouldn’t mind the automatics becoming a tiny bit more accurate. I cite an extreme example, I encountered a hacker last weekend (first one in months) using an M4 Skybro and aimbot. He didn’t even cross my mind as actually hacking for a good portion of the game because the M4 is so innacurate at longer range (or at least when held down). I don’t think they should be more accurate than burst rifles, but the gap is a little too big right now IMO.
@Cam The Stark is indeed a stronger choice compared to the BR as far as TTK and bursts tracking goes, but since the spread nerfs, the Stark has been a rather equal IMO due to the worse bloom it has.[/quote]
its more likely that the aimbot was tuned not to be full accuracy all headshots. M4 is very accurate even in prolonged bursts, and ironsight recoil is easy to control for those extra long engagements.
@Szakalot I’m fairly sure it was a basic aimbot. The player managed to instantly turn on me as soon as he downed my teammate despite the fact that I was well outside his FoV and score perfect head shots to drop me while I was dropping down from a ledge. He almost certainly wasn’t iron sighting when firing at range and was missing a lot considering it was with aimbot. I honestly don’t know how bad the BR bloom is now, but it seems quite a bit better than the M4’s, though I don’t use the autos much as of late (will have to do some M4 Fragger to test).
Burst rifles are very strong and, honestly, pretty easy to handle at the moment. You can just spam the button as fast as you can without much punishment. At almost any range.
Remember when they increased the delay between bursts (to make them feel different than automatic rifles), people freaked out about it (they were pretty shetty indeed), devs said it was a bug(?!) and then increased the damage and reduced the delay between bursts? That’s when they became so strong, but far from feeling different than before the initial changes, they were just buffed. You know it’s true, when you don’t laugh at BR Fraggers anymore.
Burst rifles feel strong and reliable, which is good, but since I think they’re too easy to handle for such a powerful weapon, maybe they need a recoil increase, not damage or RoF decrease.
[quote=“The_Enema_Bandit;169885”]Burst rifles are very strong and, honestly, pretty easy to handle at the moment. You can just spam the button as fast as you can without much punishment. At almost any range.
Remember when they increased the delay between bursts (to make them feel different than automatic rifles), people freaked out about it (they were pretty shetty indeed), devs said it was a bug(?!) and then increased the damage and reduced the delay between bursts? That’s when they became so strong, but far from feeling different than before the initial changes, they were just buffed. You know it’s true, when you don’t laugh at BR Fraggers anymore.
Burst rifles feel strong and reliable, which is good, but since I think they’re too easy to handle for such a powerful weapon, maybe they need a recoil increase, not damage or RoF decrease.
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You know, those burst rifles were meant to be used for long range.
Increasing the recoil would only make it more close ranged based and encourage more spam in CQC.
The burst rifles should get a damage increase and a fair amount of RoF decrease to encourage more long range plays.
Game balance is about how viable one choice is over another. If the only thing that can beat a burst rifle is an assault class, something’s wrong.
Burst rifles are now acting like snipers. Not exactly the same as a sniper, but able to neutralize and shred almost anything a player would normally throw at someone else, mostly being support classes, which are 80% of the game.
30% of the characters in DB can be instantly incapacitated by these weapons, and the weapons were built for long range, meaning that they don’t share the weaknesses of shotguns.
Burst rifles have the highest DPS among rifles as well. They are also not hindered by worse augments because the Dreiss and Timik have gotten worse stuff than them.
Because of this the burst rifles should receive a nerf to make them dish out less DPS than these weapons, and the Dreiss and Timik should receive a buff to dish out more DPS.