Discuss Overwatch

(Matuno) #21

@TheRyderShotgun yes, but it’s so easy to hit that the skill ceiling is so much lower.

(terminal) #22

are you implying a bigger headshot hitbox in Overwatch makes it a low skill ceiling game?
if so
http://memesvault.com/wp-content/uploads/Hysterical-Laughing-Gif-11.gif

(HunterAssassin5) #23

i think its more “skill required to get headshots” than “skill required to be good at the game”

(terminal) #24

Skill ceilings are often referred to the game itself rather than trivial things that you have listed.

(Matuno) #25

are you implying a bigger headshot hitbox in Overwatch makes it a low skill ceiling game?
if so
http://memesvault.com/wp-content/uploads/Hysterical-Laughing-Gif-11.gif[/quote]

Oh no, I’m saying that it’s a pain in the ass to rock at shooters, and get your ass handed out to you by noobs that use abilities better.

But yeah, Overwatch lets you get away with a shitty aim.

(SereneFlight) #26

Well… if player 1 gets killed because player 2 used abilities better, wouldn’t it make player 1 noobier?
… idk

(KattiValk) #27

I played quite a bit of OW, and honestly, DB’s gunplay is just…better. OW focuses around teamwork and getting things done to counter the enemy. DB in contrast, emphasizes individual skill and the ability to hold and push areas in a contest of capability between the teams. OW just doesn’t put player skill to the test as much as DB. The counter play game design is definitely fun, and OW was a blast to play, but the way it’s fundamentally built means you can be trumped by terrible players with little to no effort simply because you were playing a hero that wasn’t designed to be a serious threat in that situation (cough, Mercy, cough). DB’s formula is more rewarding to me personally.

Most importantly though, I like medics that kick a little ass, and only Zenyatta really fits that description.

(Dawnlazy) #28

I went in with rather low expectations knowing it was going to be shallow and casualized, but I thought it would be at least somewhat fun. Didn’t have any fun at all. TTK was fairly ludicrous and you’re constantly dying in 1 or 2 hits to undodgeable crap, characters with panic getaway buttons to cut away the reward of doing a smart play which should have gotten you a kill, movement speed is SLOW and the spawn points are very far away from the objectives; level design was really bad, I often took a detour expecting it to go around as an alternate route only to meet a dead end, and the paths that did lead to a “flanking route” ended up just going into the same damn chokepoint as the main path or at least very near it and were easily detectable.

Basically I think it’s an awful game that does to shooters the same that DotA did to RTS: greatly reduces the potential for actual skill and turns it into a stupid game of reading the situation and pushing a button to win. But I guess if you like DotA and its clones as well as shooters they’ve done a solid effort at a game that appeals to this playstyle. It was also very polished as we’ve all come to expect from Blizzard games too. But also just… soulless and dead inside.

(HunterAssassin5) #29

speaking of ludicrous TTK…


that’s a pin and 3 hammer hits with 100 health to spare. absolutely stupid

(terminal) #30

[quote=“Incoming;178655”]I played quite a bit of OW, and honestly, DB’s gunplay is just…better. OW focuses around teamwork and getting things done to counter the enemy. DB in contrast, emphasizes individual skill and the ability to hold and push areas in a contest of capability between the teams. OW just doesn’t put player skill to the test as much as DB. The counter play game design is definitely fun, and OW was a blast to play, but the way it’s fundamentally built means you can be trumped by terrible players with little to no effort simply because you were playing a hero that wasn’t designed to be a serious threat in that situation (cough, Mercy, cough). DB’s formula is more rewarding to me personally.

Most importantly though, I like medics that kick a little ass, and only Zenyatta really fits that description.[/quote]
Gunplay


vs

Dirty bomb focuses more around team play and less on individual skill actually, all you have to do in Dirty Bomb is click and track on somebody and rely on your teammates to give you health and ammo. In Overwatch you need to predict to hit directs, time deflects, track a target that might be warping or flying, or predict for airshots with projectiles while all you rely your teammates on are for extra HP or healing (or speed if you count Lucio too).
But all in all, both games in a competitive environment require teammates to work with each other to achieve a common goal.

(KattiValk) #31

@terminal Ironically, most of the heroes in the OW video are hitscan (and Junkrat is basically Nader sans penalty for missing since he can just press R and get a new mag). Yes, travel time on bullets will make aiming harder, yet it doesn’t really become more skill based as strafing becomes much easier and the penalty for missing is significantly lower given infinite ammo and the short wind up times on both the sniper characters. Not to mention the lock on and aim assist that are already on some heroes.

DB has regenerative health and ammo boxes which makes each player completely independent just as OW has health pick ups and infinite ammo that make everyone independent. However, OW has very distinct roles and heroes are (painfully) better or worse at tasks than others. You can beat anyone in DB with good enough aim, but some heroes in OW simply aren’t meant to be beaten by other heroes without a lot of help.

(terminal) #32

[quote=“Incoming;178802”]@terminal Ironically, most of the heroes in the OW video are hitscan (and Junkrat is basically Nader sans penalty for missing since he can just press R and get a new mag). Yes, travel time on bullets will make aiming harder, yet it doesn’t really become more skill based as strafing becomes much easier and the penalty for missing is significantly lower given infinite ammo and the short wind up times on both the sniper characters. Not to mention the lock on and aim assist that are already on some heroes.

DB has regenerative health and ammo boxes which makes each player completely independent just as OW has health pick ups and infinite ammo that make everyone independent. However, OW has very distinct roles and heroes are (painfully) better or worse at tasks than others. You can beat anyone in DB with good enough aim, but some heroes in OW simply aren’t meant to be beaten by other heroes without a lot of help.[/quote]
Are you implying infinite ammo gives a lower penalty for missing? If so I’ll show you the way to the door.
Infinite ammo merely gives the player more focus on the objective and not trying to scramble to find an ammo pack, and health packs are laid around the map where people should be holding anyways. No idea what you were referring to by “travel time on bullets”. Also, let me enlighten you on something; Overwatch isn’t Dirty bomb, strafing isn’t essential, but instead it’s how you use your abilities to defeat the enemy player. There are certain heroes in Overwatch that you can outmove the other player with by doing things that are much harder than strafing, such as Tracer’s blinks, Genji’s swift strike, or Mccree’s combat roll. Besides, even in Dirty Bomb strafing barely helps you; there are automatic weapons in Dirty bomb, and they are strong. It’s not hard to just track the players. In Dirty Bomb the most you’ll do with strafe is go A and D and then behind a wall if you’re about to lose.
Overwatch has very distinct roles because certain heroes should be focused on that particular role more than killing, unlike Dirty Bomb where all players get guns that shoot bullets that go straight. Lucio is a great example of a support role, he gets a below average weapon as his primary, but he has great support abilities. Lucio can boost the speed and health of his allies and his ultimate is to give everyone super health. Lucio can be on fire simply by activating his ult at the right times. Having very distinctive roles is a good thing. Overwatch isn’t a game about always outgunning people, but when it’s about outgunning people, it does it well.

(KattiValk) #33

@terminal I don’t know about you, but I personally find not having to worry about running out of ammo as Junkrat makes me much more inclined to spam over the objective than with Nader. He may not have an SMG, but that hardly hinders his CQC potential (at least inside is throwing range).

Regenerative health merely lets players focus more on the objective and not spend ages scrambling to reach health pick ups. Besides, ammo boxes are laid around the map anyways. :smile:
DB is mostly hitscan, many weapons in OW have travel time; hitscan had no travel time, surely common sense can finish that thought for you.
So you admit OW makes some heroes depend on their team as their crutch. I’m not saying they’re wrong to do that, but I like being able to face off against everyone else even as a medic (if abilities aren’t being used). Fragger vs Aura leans to the Fragger, but the Aura still has a gun that hurts just as much as Fragger’s so you can actually match off. Soldier 76 vs Mercy leans completely to S76, but Mercy can just press shift on a teammate and hide behind them because she’s not supposed to kill people. I don’t like playing practically helpless characters so I don’t like that in OW.
Strafing has been part of FPS since log before DB. If you’re going to attribute that staple feature to this game then the door is…nonexistent, because there isn’t one. You could always just go to the OW forums and get your voice drowned out by the multitude though. :smile:
Distinct roles isn’t bad, but it’s not good compared to DB either. It’s a different gameplay model, which is perfectly valid, but not one I like.

I like OW, and I bought it, but I’m not going to play medics as often as I do in DB. The more casual shooting mechanics like Symmetra’s left click are something I can live with, but I really dislike hpw much team play is required when pubbing. This dependence on others is okay when I know these people or if they are competent enough to know what to do if I ulted, but this model is downright painful when playing a medic with pubs that can’t aim. I haven’t done a full team vs team yet, but I’m sure I’ll enjoy it when the time comes.

(Icecoal) #34

I’m on the fence , I love DB but a lot of my buddies will sadly switch over. OW seems frantic and fun but I’m afraid it lacks depth and substance. In DB I feel like no matter how long I play I can always improve . Not so sure about ow though

(terminal) #35

[quote=“Incoming;178826”]@terminal I don’t know about you, but I personally find not having to worry about running out of ammo as Junkrat makes me much more inclined to spam over the objective than with Nader. He may not have an SMG, but that hardly hinders his CQC potential (at least inside is throwing range).

Regenerative health merely lets players focus more on the objective and not spend ages scrambling to reach health pick ups. Besides, ammo boxes are laid around the map anyways. :smile:
DB is mostly hitscan, many weapons in OW have travel time; hitscan had no travel time, surely common sense can finish that thought for you.
So you admit OW makes some heroes depend on their team as their crutch. I’m not saying they’re wrong to do that, but I like being able to face off against everyone else even as a medic (if abilities aren’t being used). Fragger vs Aura leans to the Fragger, but the Aura still has a gun that hurts just as much as Fragger’s so you can actually match off. Soldier 76 vs Mercy leans completely to S76, but Mercy can just press shift on a teammate and hide behind them because she’s not supposed to kill people. I don’t like playing practically helpless characters so I don’t like that in OW.
Strafing has been part of FPS since log before DB. If you’re going to attribute that staple feature to this game then the door is…nonexistent, because there isn’t one. You could always just go to the OW forums and get your voice drowned out by the multitude though. :smile:
Distinct roles isn’t bad, but it’s not good compared to DB either. It’s a different gameplay model, which is perfectly valid, but not one I like.

I like OW, and I bought it, but I’m not going to play medics as often as I do in DB. The more casual shooting mechanics like Symmetra’s left click are something I can live with, but I really dislike hpw much team play is required when pubbing. This dependence on others is okay when I know these people or if they are competent enough to know what to do if I ulted, but this model is downright painful when playing a medic with pubs that can’t aim. I haven’t done a full team vs team yet, but I’m sure I’ll enjoy it when the time comes.[/quote]
You’re repeating a lot of the things that I have already set out a counter argument for.

(terminal) #36

Dirty Bomb gets stale and boring after playing 2 matches in a day. Could be because I played harder games before, but that’s besides the point.
With Overwatch, I feel like I can just keep playing and playing. If the level bar is almost to a level up, I would play another game just to level up and get a chance at that sweet sweet legendary skin. However, it’s not just the skins. The gameplay itself is very unique from other shooters and very well made at that. Dirty Bomb feels like a compilation of all the previous games I have played (TF2, CSGO, etc…), which is why I started playing it in the first place.

(KattiValk) #37

@terminal Counter arguments were made to be broken, no? You say this like I can’t rebut your (biased) position. :smile:

(terminal) #38

you never broke them

(KattiValk) #39

@terminal You seemed perfectly happy to attack my claim and previous rebuts; it seems like you’re just pulling an argument from incredulity to defend your crumbling case. Nice goalpost moving btw.

(terminal) #40

“crumbling case”
you’re just repeating “hitscan” and how certain heroes can kill other heroes easier.
I stated it’s better for heroes to have roles, and how heroes in Overwatch are exactly like that. You aren’t meant to top frag with every hero in Overwatch, it’s not like Dirty Bomb. Dirty Bomb is stale, every character gets hitscan as a primary and they keep getting buffed to be easier to use (BR and Shotguns). There’s actual roles in Overwatch, and their abilities reflect that. You also mentioned “bullet travel time” earlier in your post, proving further of how unacknowledged you are at this subject.