[Dirty Cups] Test Cup #2 Feedback!

(MattjA) #1

Hey guys!

I hope everyone is well. Most of you know this already but we just finished up our second Test Cup and as far as I can tell it was a phenomenal success. With that said, there’s always room for improvement with regards to pretty much every aspect. Please let us know what you thought!

  • What did you think of the quality of the games and match-ups?
  • What did you think about the affect of the rule-set?
  • What did you think of the stream, casters, and general tournament organization?

As far as feedback goes, we’re primarily looking for feedback from the players on the two rule-sets we utilized throughout both test cups. I’d like to thank all of those who joined us and for your continued support! We have big things planned for the future so keep your eyes on us!

VODs:
RD2: Team F8 vs. Barbaric Motives
SEMI-FINALS: …INITIALIZE vs. boyZ
GRAND FINALS: …INITIALIZE vs. v586

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Source: /r/DirtyBomb

(titan) #2

Can we get a loser bracket, i feel bad for these teams who get stomped first round and yup… that’s their entire tournament, bet they’re gonna sign up again for the next one!

(art1er) #3

i’d like to see a cup without fragger :#

(Kroad) #4

v586 first match, pls

(twidi) #5

Rather than the one merc rule, I’d much rather just limit fraggers to one per team. Nobody would play with aura if it wasn’t the only possibility to have 2 medics in your team with the one merc rule.

(PixelTwitch) #6

See personally your comment about Aura, is more of a good thing in my eyes.

All of a sudden having an amazing Aura player could change the way your team performs overall much more than having a second sawbones. Like you say, people don’t like Aura, she is not really very good in competitive… However, we saw Hollywood on team BM doing some serious work with her and dominating all the other Auras he came up against.

What I am getting at is simple…
I think people are locked into the mentality that they always need to be playing with the most perfect situation and start feeling they can just ban odd bits and bats but its a down hill spiral when you start doing that.

I would be interested in hearing why you believe that 2xSawbones is fine but only 1xFragger is? I feel quite a few players still want/expect the Mercs to be balanced in a 1:1 kinda way.

The fact people even say that you “NEED 2 MEDICS” shows that the Aura pickup is more viable at that point than taking a Nader or Arty for instance. So yea, really you CHOOSE to have the Aura, no one is forcing you too take it. She is simply not as good as Sawbones in more situations than Sawbones is not as effective as Aura. I personally don’t believe that should be considered a problem…

For instance, I would not be surprised to see a second Heavy Assault Merc picked up once they are added to the current roster. Once that happens will we be back here arguing for it to be just 1xAssault and not just 1xFragger? Because once that situation appears, I am pretty sure we will see one of the other roles dropped in favour of a second assault again.

(CASIZBEAST) #7

Bro you wouldn’t be able to cope :wink:

(art1er) #8

I think so too. o:)

(twidi) #9

@PixelTwitch I personally think that there shouldn’t be any merc limitations, but I just meant that if something would have to be limited, fragger is currently the only merc that might be considered OP and could be limited to one per team.

I dislike the one merc rule, because it is limiting the teams’ ability to adapt and use the best selection of mercs for each situation. Aura is a really good example, because on defense in a passive setup it can be the best choice for certain stages, but you would never want to use it over sawbonez in attacks with the way healing stations work now. You’re saying that nobody is forced to take aura, but the fact is that you will need two medics with reviving ability on almost every situation as one medic simply can’t help everyone at once unless you all stick in the same group. So if you can’t have 2nd sawbonez, you will be forced to take aura just for her reviving ability even on some stages where the healing station is quite useless.

(potty1) #10

1 merc rule was better. Brings it more in line with the way heros are used in lol right?

(INF3RN0) #11

I think 1 merc rule will work well when all the mercs are back in the game. It’s just more interesting to watch/play imo. All they need to do is make all the mercs equally appealing, ie no best med/assault.

(Fana) #12

  • What did you think of the quality of the games and match-ups?
    The matchups were really good for random seedings (were they truly random?) and the final top three (v586, .ini and lbZ) is accurate to the relative skill level of the teams in the cup IMO. The quality of the games was very variable, but there’s not a lot to do about that given the small amount of teams currently playing and the wild differences in how seriously the different teams take the game (v586 practice almost as much as the rest of the teams combined, to give an example).

  • What did you think about the effect of the rule-set?
    The merc limit in the second cup made it much more enjoyable to play and watch. I personally think even stricter limitations would be beneficial (the one merc rule suggested by others in this thread), but that may be something that should be left until more mercs are released, or if and when drafting is introduced.

  • What did you think of the stream, casters, and general tournament organization?
    All in all very good.

I’d like to see more games casted in the future, when possible. I.e. instead of having four casters streaming one match, have two separate streams with two casters in each. For example, the first map of the bronze final in this cup was very exciting (10 seconds remaining solo delivery on chapel), and would’ve have been nice to see even just as a recording after the fact.

If time allows, I’d also like to see double-elimination cups in the future.

(RazielWarmonic) #13

Keep the feedback about the merc rule coming guys! I’m reading everything and appreciate it all.

Hypothetical: What if we just got rid of Fragger for cups?
Or what if we did a “1 Assault Limit” where you could only have 1 Fragger or 1 Nader per team?

I would love to do a loser bracket, but the problem is that people think it “Only adds one more round”, where it doesn’t. A recent example is that we had was a RO 32 Double Elim bracket in Nosgoth, and it ended up taking HOURS (the top team had to wait 3 hours for their next match) more than the standard normal elimination. I am very well aware it’s very discouraging for new teams to just get outed first match, but in a global setting it’s near impossible to do without a two-day event, which defeats the purpose of cups. Something we could do in the future once we get region specifics cups? Yes. Is it good for now? No. Because I know teams towards the end get cranky simply because they are up late, and they have work tomorrow. However, we get 6 or less teams, it is for sure something we could do, but I hope we don’t decline in teams!

(Ceres) #14

An NA cup would be nice. We only have like 6 or so teams :smiley:

(matsy) #15

As well as the 1 merc rule. I think going one step further and letting the opposition rule out one merc would be interesting.

Could be issues with this on the number of mercs available, so excluding mercs free rotations? Also per map or match? Would involve reconnects etc.

Do you get rid of fragger or their vasilii?

Deciders via coin toss? Would prefer to see elimination of remaining maps used.

Lowest seed gets first elimination, then opposition gets second, and will leave one map after they each remove a map.

(Kroad) #16

[quote=“Warmonic;18428”]
Hypothetical: What if we just got rid of Fragger for cups?[/quote]

would honestly really like this, fragger is imo the most boring merc, both to watch, to play and to play against.

There have been some pugs with no fragger, it was a lot more fun, game was actually about gunfights and not decided by the fragger.

(Fana) #17

[quote=“Warmonic;18428”]Hypothetical: What if we just got rid of Fragger for cups?
Or what if we did a “1 Assault Limit” where you could only have 1 Fragger or 1 Nader per team?[/quote]
A cup without fragger could be interesting to try, but I suspect team compos will then turn into a similarly boring 3saw/1sky/1utility. The alternative suggestion of “1 Assault Limit” is better than having no restrictions, but the end result is just that teams will swap one fragger for one sky. I prefer the slightly more diverse lineups of highlander and think the rules used for the second cup worked out nicely.

(Draceus) #18

Limit the assault to 1 as for now, when more mercs are out we can revisit the rule and have it changed

(Kroad) #19

actually, fragger is balanced now, no problem there anymore

(Guilte) #20

I know this isn’t a seeded cup and it’s a test cup. But it’s not fun for teams who sign up and then get put against teams that they have no business playing against. Like Titan said, these people probably won’t sign up again. I know the brackets are randomized several times to insure the finals are good, but wouldn’t it be better to just stream every match and have every game be close, versus just streaming the finals? A good team can handle a hard bracket, and they also won’t lose by fluke. Certain teams were also on the bracket that didn’t even sign up.

Overall, the tournament was smooth.