DIRTY BOMB UPDATE: Version 17437

(Maca) #321

He is. It’s not even funny

(INF3RN0) #322

I just think were looking at any alternatives, middle grounds, or new ideas with the mindset that they have to be a complete polar opposite of what these games are. I am not a fan of TF2 mechanics. I am a fan of ET games. I would just rather have SD help make the game more welcoming to the playstyles of the larger population they want to attract rather than end up with a dumbed down game. That’s just my thinking on this because I know I can’t put my hope in getting a reproduction of any of the past games.

I completely agree with everything Kendle said in his last post as well.

(ImageOmega) #323

[QUOTE=Kendle;436783]Agree, but DB is nowhere near that unfortunately.

In RTCW a Med starts with a full mag + a clip and absolutely needs an Lt. to keep him going. In DB he starts with a full mag + 2 clips and gets free ammo from racks.

RTCW has no health regen, so everyone needs Medics, in DB you just wait in a corner for a few seconds to get your health back, Medics not required.

In RTCW you get punished for dying, especially if you miss the next spawn. DB does not have wave respawn on defense (where it would actually matter) and you’re not dead long anyway, so no real benefit putting the other guy down and gibbing, and no real reward for good Meds to put themselves on the line trying to revive under fire.

DB discourages teamwork by allowing it not to be needed, presumably in the name of “making the game accessible”. That was how Radho justified Brink, look how that turned out.

However we are where we are, rose tinted glasses are not helping here. DB has a plethora of weapons, it has multiple classes and loadouts, the longer we keep ignoring that the longer it will be before they start working.

Currently it’s that plethora of weapons that are providing the only true class distinction. Either that remains the case or something else needs to do it instead, like removing ammo racks, removing health regen, adding wave respawn, increasing spawn times, forcing classes to NEED each other and punishing them if they don’t work together.[/QUOTE]

Where do I sign up for this game? Or is it possible we actually get these things adjusted in Dirty Bomb and realize that new players will rise to the challenge as expected just like the MOBA games that keep being mentioned by Anti. Teamwork will happen if you let it happen. In TF2 someone always goes medic due to lack of medic or simply it being requested by the team.

(Valdez) #324

This is from anti in another thread.

"I give ‘you guys’ credit, but I also have stats that show there are plenty of other FPS players that give up early if they’re struggling. If we can ease their experience for even a tiny bit longer than we do now, without ruining the core game, then we can make sure the game has a really healthy community.

One problem with Brink was that we didn’t maintain that core experience in the pursuit of some of the accessibility, a closed alpha helps us avoid that same mistake on DB."

This is why they do not go back to the old ways like kendle suggested. If you ask me they are making the same mistake as they did with brink, just listen to what kendle said and you are good to go.

SD you guys talk about not wanting to lose your core audience but with regen/ammo racks/spawn times/non spawn waves/movement(for you rex) you are going to lose them.

Also please sign me up for that kendle game.

(tokamak) #325

SD you guys talk about not wanting to lose your core audience but with regen/ammo racks/spawn times/non spawn waves/movement(for you rex) you are going to lose them.

Most of those things are a symptom of the problem because they cover up the fact that the classes aren’t doing what they’re supposed to do.

(INF3RN0) #326

I don’t find this game remotely comparable to Brink. Brink was like the TF2 version of an ET game where aim was a non-factor and classes were required for vital buffs. Brink wasn’t a FirstPersonShooter, it was a TeamPersonShooter where organization and positioning were the main key to success. At least Brink had a lot of the normal features though like spawn waves, etc. DB surely does dumb down a lot of things that it shouldn’t, where it really should be trying to make it more accessible rather than less of a learning requirement. The class system is struggling and it has to be made to work with the micro transaction content as well. I just don’t see any suggestions about how to do it better.

Even if there was a remake of any RTCW/ET game it wouldn’t be very successful compared to the standard. Sure it would satisfy all the fans and we would love it while it lasted, but it would eventually die from lack of player base and we would blame it on the nub casuals that don’t have the will power to try and master a high skill curve game. The goal of DB really is to try and keep the genre alive by attracting the bigger population of online gamers, but if we just keep asking for a game that we already know how to play then it’s bound to be the last one that get’s made. It’s more realistically in SD best interests to not even try to satisfy it’s original fans if they want to survive as a business.

(tokamak) #327

The game that comes closest to DB is CSGO at the moment.

(Maca) #328

But what are they trying to satisfy then? What market are they going after? I doubt that we’ll budge people away from their own games if DB is made similar to those games.
F2P market is about novelty, and SD won’t get any money, at least not in the long run, if they try to play in the turf of other already established games. And we can have different loadouts (however it is handled, single mercs or otherwise), things akin to perks, we can have plethora of weapons, nice animations, pro-matchmaking and all that jazz that’ll catch the attention of people.
But the very barebones core of the game needs to be simple and skill and teamplay based. Currently it isn’t that, it wouldn’t even be that big of a change to make it better, but currently it isn’t. And I am also afraid that if the core isn’t changed it won’t satisfy any party.

As mentioned MOBA games are one example that have proven that people can stand up to a challenge. We could try to acchieve that in FPS

(Humate) #329

Brink wasn’t a FirstPersonShooter, it was a TeamPersonShooter where organization and positioning were the main key to success.

Hmm I think theres a pretty strong element of TeamPersonShooter in DB.
1v1 ofcourse its still there, but its a bit too easy to deal dmg with very little effort.

Regen has tried to compensate for that, and to a degree it has…
maybe it would be better to lower the body dmg, increase the headshot dmg and remove regen.

(MrEd) #330

It really irritates me when people use the phrase “accessibilty” like it’s some kind of swear word. Everything about a game should be intuitive else no one will ever pick it up but the trick is that it also allows for mastery else it becomes very dull very quickly. On the other hand nothing will kill a game quicker than obscurity in its design. I wish there was more discussion on these forums about what simple things DB currently does well, where it is improving on these simple things and where it is still the most obscure.

I’m also bemused how there is a concept of DB as a fixed product. It’s not. It’s not even the same game it was last week, never mind 6 months ago. Yes ammo crates are being trialled. Ammo stashes have been a feature of games since Wolf 3D through Doom,Quake and ET. Yes, it probably does devalue the field ops to have an ammo crate right next to the objective. Just as it probably did to have massive ammo drops on dead bodies but is there no room for an emergency stash? Was the ammo stash on Oasis a game breaker or a game changer? What about specific locations and setups of the BFG in Doom or the railgun in Quake ctf? Where are the top 5 best locations of ammo crates in DB and where are the top5 worst?

I’m starting to find it harder to distinguish precise analysis of game details I could use to pinpoint focussed changes to the game’s design from design philosophy. Spawn times are too short. Which ones? They’re different on all maps and all objectives. How long is too short? How long is too long? Are there any objectives in DB that are perfectly balanced atm or have ever been? Movement is bad! What does that tell us? What about the acceleration increase, what did that do? What about the changes to level collision, did they improve the fluidity of the game at all? Apart from sprinting everywhere and circle strafing are there basic bugs in the movement model still when simply running around?

Finally I would like to know one thing. Not what game is this most like or unlike but simply, is Dirty Bomb fun? If so when and if not when most of all?

(INF3RN0) #331

Planning to do a detailed and clear write up for Ed hopefully by tonight. Too much truth to those words.

(rookie1) #332


Keep things clear and precise ! Pleasssse
Open new threads for different topics dicussions

(Maca) #333

I have not played daily for the past few weeks due to life, so I don’t have enough information for the othre points, but will just give my opinion on this.
When I play I concentrate much more on obj/support. So whenever I get to heal people and give them ammo, and when I manage to lemming the obj or destroy the EV the game is fun. When the battle bemoces more focused, in a choke or just the map not being so spread out, I feel awesome because I can do these things. Everyone is in the general viscinity and we manage to have some teamwork.
And then the game is unfun when I’m alone. It happens much too often, because of locations like the bridges in LB, where everyone disperses, because the classes don’t require explicitly teamwork, so when the map opens people scatter. Very often I spawn alone or with only few people, so the chance of me not being able to work with my team becomes low, because the chance of me runing in to some enemy alone becomes high. And that’s when being on offense. The feeling of aloneness is overwhelming on defence because of the tricklespawn. Even when it gets better, in chokes or more concentrated routes where I actually have a feeling for where my team mates are, it changes very quickly because of the creeping feeling that we are dying and trickling back, the teamwork becomes less all the time. I die, and every time I respawn and am running alone back to the others I’m wishing that our defense hasn’t eroded, because if it has I can’t do anything to help anymore, I’m alone as I am always when I respawn. That feeling is just so unfun to me, the feeling that we can not hold it, the offense is slowly creeping towards the goal and we can NOT do anything about. We have lost the momentum and we can never regain it again. Extremely frustrating.

TL;DR DB is fun when I’m with my team, and not fun when I’m not.

(Humate) #334

Things DB does well:

Game Related:
*Animation (eg player holds their hands to their face vs concussive/flash)
*Audio (gun sounds)
*Character Models (especially the ones Toomic uses :wink:)
*Weapon Models
*Sniper Rifle and Fops2 Rifle (they fit like a glove, I cant say more than that)

Non Game Related:
*Dev Feedback
*Support

Do I have fun? Yes.
When? When I know the frag took skill
When not? When I know the frag didnt take skill, or not much.

(rookie1) #335

Originally Posted by MrEd
Finally I would like to know one thing. Not what game is this most like or unlike but simply, is Dirty Bomb fun? If so when and if not when most of all?

is Dirty Bomb fun? Yes :slight_smile:
games today for me was fun
Had great Meds player keeping me on my feet :slight_smile:
(teamwork +1)
I had few good shots with nades :slight_smile:
Better aiming
Had many respawn in group
good movements
overall GGs

Other thing i like :
Graphics in general, addition of car in fire in WC
Last objective in WC the addition of the ramp (Catwalk) for attacker along the side of the building
and many more (animations, sounds,Devs implication (forums&ingame) and what incoming)

What I dislike :
Respawning at the square one of the map :confused: a way too long walk!

So definitely Like DB

(BomBaKlaK) #336

[QUOTE=MrEd;436890]
I’m also bemused how there is a concept of DB as a fixed product. It’s not. It’s not even the same game it was last week, never mind 6 months ago. Yes ammo crates are being trialled. Ammo stashes have been a feature of games since Wolf 3D through Doom,Quake and ET. Yes, it probably does devalue the field ops to have an ammo crate right next to the objective. Just as it probably did to have massive ammo drops on dead bodies but is there no room for an emergency stash? Was the ammo stash on Oasis a game breaker or a game changer? What about specific locations and setups of the BFG in Doom or the railgun in Quake ctf? Where are the top 5 best locations of ammo crates in DB and where are the top5 worst?[/QUOTE]

I really like the ammo stashes ! it make some “hot meeting point”, different from the main obj. and that’s make some important point to control. The field ops is still useful cause you can’t run away to get ammo at the stashes every time if you wanna keep fighting at the frontline.

But you need to be smart in there location to be really interesting. actually it works pretty well much better than before. I prefer this to ammo drop on gib.

(Hundopercent) #337

You are a ****en idiot.

(warbie) #338

There’s no need for that dude :confused:

(Hundopercent) #339

There is no need for his post either. How is DB even remotely close to CS:GO? It isn’t in any aspect, other than their is a gun and it shoots bullets on your screen. Movement is faster, recoil is tighter, TTK is longer, their are classes, their is no SnD, you can’t shoot through walls.

(Nail) #340

MrEd, game is fun