DIRTY BOMB UPDATE: Version 17437

(nailzor) #341

I understand where you are coming from MrEd, I think there will always be more “this needs to be changed” or “i dont like this” threads - I have provided my fair share I know that much! I try to highlight the changes I do like, but normally I just say “i like everything except” To give you guys credit for what you do here are my thoughts summed up to your question :slight_smile:

Things I like:

*In Game graphics and Character Art
*Audio (weapon sounds)
*Sniper Rifle and Fops2 Rifle are well balanced and great guns.

Do I have fun? Yes
When? When we have enough to fill US servers and have good ping :wink:
When not? Playing with over 100ping, enemies having insta-spawns and map design issues - which have a direct correlation in most cases ammo crates, and lack of spawn waves.

IE: Removing ammo from deaths and but following it up with adding numerous ammo-crates everywhere offset each other. I’ve never been a fan of them in MP. Spawn waves would be a huge plus to be able to determine if maps truly have a balance issue/design flaw or not. Spawn waves in addition with Spawn times of 20-30 seconds would be necessary depending on each stage, but we would then be able to tell do the spawn times need to be changed

(tokamak) #342

Tuning spawns, making maps better in collision and all other kinds of things that no doubt require a tremendous amount of effort are in the end just polish. Very necessary polish. And it IS appreciated! You can think up the most wildest and deepest gameplay mechanics but without a smooth base shooter to support that it´s still nothing.

And I know it´s tiring not to receive any praise for that. But look at the milestone videos. People are cheering you on about the tremendous amount of work you´re putting in.

But no, DB isn´t fun. A highly polished mediocre shooter is still a mediocre shooter. Most discussions on this forum are all about the gunplay. Understandeable because the gunplay still isn´t quite there yet and it’s base requirement for a shooter.

And the way the classes are handled really doesn’t deserve any praise at all. Giving the soldier an objective is not addressing his actual problem. Making healing more indirect, however elegant the mechanic in and of itself, is not addressing the actual problem.

As of now the only actual way you get to contribute to your team is to take that gun and start aiming it at bad guys. I don’t need another shooter for that, I can pick up tons of shooters that already do that. And don’t dismiss that as me being some dude that doesn’t like shooting. I like shooters, I like fighting, but only if that fight has some meaning, only if I’m actually fighting for something.

I’m not fighting for anything in DB. It’s just a map with two teams rushing around and shooting each other’s faces.

The most fun in ETQW is when you devised a new idea and completely messed up the opponent’s plans through it. That’s immensely satisfying and that’s what made me obsess about that game. It was a shooter that rewarded people with ideas. And people with ideas in turn were better able to execute their ideas if they were being good shots as well.

ETQW in the end, was about fighting to get your goal achieved. DB currently, is just about fighting. And that’s why I’m using CS:GO as a point of reference. CS:GO also has objectives but those objectives are nothing but an afterthought, a gimmick intended to get two teams converge on each other. I’d hate, absolutely hate to see DB be like that.

(iwound) #343

the current build not always. mainly due to choppiness when the server is full. i move slowly then quickly for a sec over and over.
also weak artillery. not sure why but i can mark it next to ev and not a scratch happens way too often.
coming round a corner and getting killed instantly.
no shuffle.
my screen full of info blocking my view.
the crashes. these empty a server.
lack of gadgets. engie has mine ok, field-ops has artillery, covey has heartbeat sensors which are ok but weak. soldier has nothing but can c4 barriers, why not c4 anything? medic has nothing. so not a lot to spark interest.for someone who is useless with a gun.

Something amazing happened on camden the other day. when as attackers we spawned i held back just for a sec to watch were everyone else was going and all but 2 went left through the buildings, i followed. we all died but it was awesome, great battle. when you think about it all other times everyone splits up at spawn to do their own thing. when this random event happened i thought wow why cant it be like that more often were we all charge in together and split nearer the objective to attack. the tunnel in waterloo is a good example were a pushing group works together.

whitechapel is improving greatly all the time. the last section used to be my least favourite of all objectives on all maps now its one of my favourites.its also the best looking map.

waterloo is the best map but has always suffered from the anti-climax at the end and could do with 1 more objective in the back yard. had fun on a long hold on the wall even though we lost spawn. doesn’t happen often though.

LB hasn’t changed much, just the weapons we use on it. and the rules. last barrier is still a pain to play as defence and a yawn as attack but i expect new weapons to change that to hold the ev in the street long enough. but getting killed leaving spawn there gets me reaching for the exit button.

(Dragonji) #344

The game is quite fun at the moment, especially on Camden, the other maps feel a bit too complicated in design for me.

Of course there are things that annoy me, such as no possibility to make weapon viewmodels smaller, no possibility to move icons indicating about objectives from the screen to minimap, low amount of frames per second on my old rig etc., but those are small things that (I hope) will be fixed over time.

(Kendle) #345

MrEd, is DB fun? Yes, and the thing it does well, compared to ET / RTCW for me, is the fact all classes are at least being played, for whatever reason. They’re not playing together, as a team, but all classes are being played, so that’s a major positive.

Simple things you could do right now to improve the game might include :-

  1. Wave respawn for both teams. We can’t tell you whether they’re too short or too long because it only really matters on defense and they don’t spawn in waves. Please for the love of the great and holy Tapir god give us wave respawn on defense, then we can propose an actual number for each team / map / stage.

  2. If ammo racks must stay the worst place is near where the fighting happens, the best place is where the least fighting happens, Echo can tell you that better than us.

  3. Drop Soldier back to 100HP and give every gun consistent head shot damage, apart from the Sniper which should remain 1 hs kill.

  4. Increase revive shield protection to 3 seconds (as a test for now) and reduce damage to zero on the revived player, cancelled when he starts shooting.

  5. Increase movement acceleration to 100% (or just remove it completely), we should start moving at maximum speed in any direction the instant we touch the key.

(MrFunkyFunk) #346

Yes DB is fun most of the time. It has a lot of nice aspects to it.

But currently I don’t feel like I’m playing a team shooter all the time, too many times I feel hopeless due to the lack of teamplay encouragement.
Of course sometimes it’s because of the players but it’s mostly due to the current game mechanics.

The lack of spawnwaves is really felt in some games,it’s more like a continuous bleeding of spawned players that go to the slaugherhouse on their own than the opportunity to make it anorganized team effort to achieve something.
I’m not sure what way the classes are heading, it’s a work in progress but I feel that sometimes aside the obj one none is really relevant nor essential to the team (regen/racks/etc).

(BomBaKlaK) #347

[QUOTE=Kendle;436942]
Simple things you could do right now to improve the game might include :-

  1. Wave respawn for both teams. We can’t tell you whether they’re too short or too long because it only really matters on defense and they don’t spawn in waves. Please for the love of the great and holy Tapir god give us wave respawn on defense, then we can propose an actual number for each team / map / stage.

  2. If ammo racks must stay the worst place is near where the fighting happens, the best place is where the least fighting happens, Echo can tell you that better than us.

  3. Drop Soldier back to 100HP and give every gun consistent head shot damage, apart from the Sniper which should remain 1 hs kill.

  4. Increase revive shield protection to 3 seconds (as a test for now) and reduce damage to zero on the revived player, cancelled when he starts shooting.

  5. Increase movement acceleration to 100% (or just remove it completely), we should start moving at maximum speed in any direction the instant we touch the key.[/QUOTE]

nice ideas over here ! you should listen to this :wink:

(Hundopercent) #348

[QUOTE=tokamak;436929]Tuning spawns, making maps better in collision and all other kinds of things that no doubt require a tremendous amount of effort are in the end just polish. Very necessary polish. And it IS appreciated! You can think up the most wildest and deepest gameplay mechanics but without a smooth base shooter to support that it´s still nothing.

And I know it´s tiring not to receive any praise for that. But look at the milestone videos. People are cheering you on about the tremendous amount of work you´re putting in.

But no, DB isn´t fun. A highly polished mediocre shooter is still a mediocre shooter. Most discussions on this forum are all about the gunplay. Understandeable because the gunplay still isn´t quite there yet and it’s base requirement for a shooter.

And the way the classes are handled really doesn’t deserve any praise at all. Giving the soldier an objective is not addressing his actual problem. Making healing more indirect, however elegant the mechanic in and of itself, is not addressing the actual problem.

As of now the only actual way you get to contribute to your team is to take that gun and start aiming it at bad guys. I don’t need another shooter for that, I can pick up tons of shooters that already do that. And don’t dismiss that as me being some dude that doesn’t like shooting. I like shooters, I like fighting, but only if that fight has some meaning, only if I’m actually fighting for something.

I’m not fighting for anything in DB. It’s just a map with two teams rushing around and shooting each other’s faces.

The most fun in ETQW is when you devised a new idea and completely messed up the opponent’s plans through it. That’s immensely satisfying and that’s what made me obsess about that game. It was a shooter that rewarded people with ideas. And people with ideas in turn were better able to execute their ideas if they were being good shots as well.

ETQW in the end, was about fighting to get your goal achieved. DB currently, is just about fighting. And that’s why I’m using CS:GO as a point of reference. CS:GO also has objectives but those objectives are nothing but an afterthought, a gimmick intended to get two teams converge on each other. I’d hate, absolutely hate to see DB be like that.[/QUOTE]

You do realize that’s because their are no spawn waves for D, bodies insta gib a lot without people shooting them, and spawn times are short. That’s why it feels like you are always having to shoot. Their isn’t time to set up or ammo/heal up. It’s a battle of attrition not teamwork. How many times can we just keep slamming our face against this objective until our spawn times desync perfectly and it gets completed.

It’s not entirely class design failure. More like map design and spawning failure. Their is no consequence to playing poorly just hold W run to a yellow square and keep shooting.

(tokamak) #349
  1. Wave respawn for both teams. We can’t tell you whether they’re too short or too long because it only really matters on defense and they don’t spawn in waves. Please for the love of the great and holy Tapir god give us wave respawn on defense, then we can propose an actual number for each team / map / stage.

Well the individual rate can be tweaked as well of course. 15 seconds seems too long to me because the average respawn time of the attackers definitely isn’t 15 seconds (mean of the bell-curve thing so about 7.5 seconds).

I’d be all for working with a faster respawn for defenders and then see how that works.

(Hundopercent) #350

[QUOTE=Kendle;436942]MrEd, is DB fun? Yes, and the thing it does well, compared to ET / RTCW for me, is the fact all classes are at least being played, for whatever reason. They’re not playing together, as a team, but all classes are being played, so that’s a major positive.

Simple things you could do right now to improve the game might include :-

  1. Wave respawn for both teams. We can’t tell you whether they’re too short or too long because it only really matters on defense and they don’t spawn in waves. Please for the love of the great and holy Tapir god give us wave respawn on defense, then we can propose an actual number for each team / map / stage.

  2. If ammo racks must stay the worst place is near where the fighting happens, the best place is where the least fighting happens, Echo can tell you that better than us.

  3. Drop Soldier back to 100HP and give every gun consistent head shot damage, apart from the Sniper which should remain 1 hs kill.

  4. Increase revive shield protection to 3 seconds (as a test for now) and reduce damage to zero on the revived player, cancelled when he starts shooting.

  5. Increase movement acceleration to 100% (or just remove it completely), we should start moving at maximum speed in any direction the instant we touch the key.[/QUOTE]

I had to change my ****ing underwear about half way through this. +1

(Ashog) #351

double post

(Ashog) #352

lol you must be kidding, don’t you :slight_smile:

Sorry but it is funny how virtually everyone in forum moans about sniper rifle being useless, and yet there will be at least 1 person who will tell that it is the best weapon :slight_smile:

Oh never mind, I agree with the rest of your ideas :wink:

(Kl3ppy) #353

[QUOTE=MrFunkyFunk;436987]Yes DB is fun most of the time. It has a lot of nice aspects to it.

But currently I don’t feel like I’m playing a team shooter all the time, too many times I feel hopeless due to the lack of teamplay encouragement.
Of course sometimes it’s because of the players but it’s mostly due to the current game mechanics.
[/QUOTE]

Ok, I dont revive you anymore, or drop medpacks :tongue:

(Humate) #354

[QUOTE=Ashog;437070]lol you must be kidding, don’t you :slight_smile:

Sorry but it is funny how virtually everyone in forum moans about sniper rifle being useless, and yet there will be at least 1 person who will tell that it is the best weapon :slight_smile:

Oh never mind, I agree with the rest of your ideas ;)[/QUOTE]

Its not that the sniper rifle is useless, it just punishes a certain style of sniping.

(MrFunkyFunk) #355

If you don’t I’ll spam vchat even more!

(Hundopercent) #356

[QUOTE=tokamak;436999]Well the individual rate can be tweaked as well of course. 15 seconds seems too long to me because the average respawn time of the attackers definitely isn’t 15 seconds (mean of the bell-curve thing so about 7.5 seconds).

I’d be all for working with a faster respawn for defenders and then see how that works.[/QUOTE]

L. O. L.

Please focus your suggestions on casual play like making maps prettier and leave balancing to people that actually know what they’re talking about.

The game feels like TDM with random objectives on the side and you suggest having people spawn even faster? You have got to be kidding me…

How about we start with defense having a spawn wave, any spawn wave is better than current, and fix the insta spawn bug for Camden (and insta gib in general) and then we’ll worry about tweaking times etc.

Edit: At least with proper spawn waves we can work on how the maps feel etc.

(Anti) #357

Closing thread. It started off very useful but has lost its direction and turned into pointless bickering.