Dirty Bomb Closed Alpha Progress Update - August 6th 2013


(prophett) #41

[QUOTE=Anti;460532]
[li]We’ve not made character abilities as unique and powerful as they should be to make the character stand out. A good example is the underwhelming Airstrike ability on Skyhammer[/QUOTE][/li]
I had hoped the artillery would also get some love. You can stand on the marker in an open area and watch it land all around you without receiving much damage. I did a test where I called in 4 artys and stood on the marker - 2 times I got hit by 2 of the 8 shells, and the other time I only got hit once. It never once killed me and will rarely ever fully damage an EV.

Great news. I honestly haven’t touched the shotgun classes because I simply do not like the gun. Looking forward to trying them out with an smg in it’s place.

I am skeptical of the anyone can plant/anyone can defuse approach. I can’t see the defenders getting any time to regroup if any class can plant. I think it will be very chaotic and unorganized.

Hoping this gets released this week so I have time to play before I head out of town to work for another 4 weeks :[


(Pytox) #42

Want to try it out asap

Also where is the Mexican character? :tongue:
I also got some ideas for you from a mod idea i once had :smiley:


(Mustang) #43

Tentatively optimistic… although mostly sitting on the fence right now.


(rand0m) #44

Just lost my interest with these changes. I was interested in the class based gameplay of this. If your gonna do this objective based game will not work. Everyone can plant and disarm? This isn’t going to work. Class based gaming only works with the objective because you need to limit classes to properly complete the objectives, it’s all synergy. This is going to break synergy. This is counter strike with objectives. Just make counter strike maps because I don’t see objectives working. You’re basically going to call of duty and cs.

This is all a ploy for money. You should have done this right and charge a nice fee for the game.

I will no longer support you SD, you as well as every other PC fps company no longer can create good classic games. I paid 120$ for your alpha to come help test a game that I was pretty much falsely advertised into thinking was going to become of this game.

Pathetic.


(en2ie) #45

Hmmm…

Okay thats a lot to take in, so most of these changes are aimed at achieving a unique play-style per character. I am still not sure what defines a character in DB, I always made my choice based off the weapon vs ability vs current objective tradeoff. Now two of those are partly removed its just the ability choice, might only ever choose one character.

Looking forward to testing this, but very skeptical right now :wink:

I have visions of the EV moving like a rocket and stopping for a matter of 5 seconds as the whole team repairs it :smiley:


(ailmanki) #46

Classless, I approve. Every merc belongs in his own class, yeah :stroggflag:


(Seiniyta) #47

The only issue I have is with the C4 objective really. I’d love to see instead of everyone being able to plant a C4 at the spawn location there’s a box with 3 C4’s players can pick up. (which does refill when a C4 fails/succeeds) Though that creates some other issues. I’m happy to test these changes out though.

[QUOTE=rand0m;460613]Just lost my interest with these changes. I was interested in the class based gameplay of this. If your gonna do this objective based game will not work. Everyone can plant and disarm? This isn’t going to work. Class based gaming only works with the objective because you need to limit classes to properly complete the objectives, it’s all synergy. This is going to break synergy. This is counter strike with objectives. Just make counter strike maps because I don’t see objectives working. You’re basically going to call of duty and cs.

This is all a ploy for money. You should have done this right and charge a nice fee for the game.

I will no longer support you SD, you as well as every other PC fps company no longer can create good classic games. I paid 120$ for your alpha to come help test a game that I was pretty much falsely advertised into thinking was going to become of this game.

Pathetic.[/QUOTE]

Chill out, when you signed up for Alpha you knew the game would change. Even drastic changes, and you haven’t even played with the changes yet. Nor is it sure that all these changes will stick anyway as we don’t know until we actively play it if they feel good.


(tangoliber) #48

I think limited grenades to certain classes is a great idea.

I’m not sure about letting all classes plant/disarm. It might be a good change. But I will definitely miss that feeling of having to escort/protect the precious disarming class in the final seconds, and deciding how many objective classes and how many support classes to use. But if some classes have sufficient advantages for certain roles, that might be just as good. For example, a heavily armored character that only gets a pistol in exchange for lots of health tailored for planting/defusing while under fire.


(Volcano) #49


(spookify) #50

All I can say is hummm. We shall see what the testing holds.

If you take out the ET/RTCW I am out of here.

If the class’s are balanced it might work tho… Fix Body Shots! Way to powerful!

The key to this game is to reward good shots and have a strong anti cheat and they will come…


(maxxxxlol) #51

Can only see teams running med and fops characters now. Whats the point in the others if everyone can do everything.


(fzl) #52

Any Class can plant/disarm/construcing?

“SORRY” Guys this is a big mistake!!! Plz Dont ruined this Game!

and btw i agree with rex and kordin and his requests!


(scre4m.) #53

I will definitely miss the focusing element from class based system. It has always been a sign of good teams to focus out an engi and gib him to defend a planted bomb or focus out a covert ops for hack objective (as seen in ET:QW).

This brings a great flow in the map and the defender attacker roles can almost change ( see sewer last objective). this was one of the most fun elements in ETQW and sometimes made the difference between good and very good teams.

Nevertheless I am looking forward to testing this.

Basically the same thing like forward spawns. defenders had the option to go aggressive and take the forward spawn point. this is not in DB either. I dont say its a must have and that DB should only copy elemnts from other games, but you take out a lot of depth and make it a casual game like this.

In the end we will all have to test this first and we will see if good or bad


(stickybath) #54

I like all the ideas except for everyone being able to plant and defuse. When playing matches in ET some of my greatest moments are “playing smart” as an engineer. Being the only one who can plant I need to know when to kill out when the enemy will kill out, when to plant, when to defuse and not go down for a full spawn. Or on the flip side when defending, it is fun to disregard the medics and just rush the eng to get him out full. I’m not against removing classes completely but I do believe that classes that get to use med packs shouldn’t be able to call arty, or repair / plant, or deploy ammo. Why not just have certain characters who are able to plant / repair / defuse, to add more contrast to the characters that can use medpacks defib units, arty, etc. classless objectives will take a lot of fun excitement and strategy away from the game. To me having every character being able to repair / plant is like having every character being able to call artillery, air strike, deploy ammo, deploy medpacks, revive, etc; just boring.

Sorry for odd reply I’m typing this on my phone.


(BomBaKlaK) #55

Open bar game … let’s test, but really skeptical.


(Mustang) #56

This?

There is no such thing as medics. :smiley:


(ImageOmega) #57

Johnny_Hex states that arty and air strikes were getting some work. He admitted they have noticed that are too random and are in the pipe line for a fix.


(S0und_) #58

First of all to my fellow testers. This is closed alpha, we have the chance to test every crazy idea, which in my opinion is awesome. As i just sad we are in closed alpha stage which means … (it is possible) “what happens in closed alpha stays in closed alpha”, and not carried on to farther stages. Relax.

I’m a deveveloper myself, doing inhouse stuff for my company. In some situation, when you have a really good idea for a feature, it’s impossible to know if it will be a succesful change up until you deploy it, and test it out. I need to see if it works, and if not, what is the reason. I need data, i need feedback. And for that we have Echo, also we can cry rivers.

1. Classless stuff:

Without class dependency, we are on a good track for a lukewarm TF2 clone. Where you have classes, but they doesn’t matter at all. You can have a lot of fun, but you can’t take that game serious. But don’t get me wrong, i’m really interested to see how this gonna work out for us. But on paper (using some previous experience from RTCW but mostly from W:ET) this change not gonna be super exciting.

2. No Nade

The game never felt spamy at all. Most classes has like 1 nade which you can’t resupply from ammo packs. But i’m gonna tell you what was spamy. W:ET engi in the early years. After level 1 it had like 8? nades, and had like (shared with the team) 10 mines. I have suffered serious mental scars after certain “Pump pushes” on Oasis. Mines everywhere, and "I’s a Nadey day… oohh it’s a Nadey day… ".


(Evil-Doer) #59

A lot to digest. But, like I said in the past I’m more than willing to TRY anything and everything. So let’s do it and see what comes of it. This is definitely a pretty drastic patch :smiley:


(Loffy) #60

Greetings to you too and once again thank you so much for updates and opportunities to provide feedback. It is nice to read about the changes to the UI and the Spectator Mode and planned, upcoming changes. I am also thrilled to read that it is your “last closed alpha progress update”, which means that you will move on to a new level. Or? Congratulations on the progress so far and I wish you all at SD in general and the team that works on DB in particular continued success.

I was glad to read about the focus on characters. Honestly, I had not really understood that they were a big part in your marketing strategy and for the players’ in-game experience. I thought DB was a team-based multiplayer online shooter, but it turned out that you aimed for a character-driven multiplayer shooter. Nevertheless, it all sounded pretty solid and rational, so I read all that you wrote with great interest Anti.

“At the heart of Dirty Bomb are its characters”. This is a rather bald and perhaps misleading statement. I mean, aren’t the weapons and gadgets and the objectives at the centre? But I might be wrong here, and after some though and reflexion I do appreciate the fact that your game (DB) will “fight” against other games out there, and that you need to release a game that is both top-quality and “special”. Hence, the focus on character, I understand that now. It is quite clever to use the term “unique Mercenaries”, because it is tough and “selling”, still rather neutral (non-offensive).

On a side note, the illustrations (character art), is really good. Job well done there.

Your plan, on paper, was to have characters with distinctive styles, capabilities and weapons, but, as you say, you have not really managed to do that so far.

You provided four examples why this is so:
“Specific map objectives force players to ignore their preferred play-style in favour of the class that can do the objective, or the objective goes un-done and the game is spoilt”.
Is there really anything we can do about this? I mean, there will always be character-specific objectives, e.g. “We need an engineer”. Or are you suggesting that all characters should be able to do everything? Will it be a good idea?
“We’ve not made character abilities as unique and powerful as they should be to make the character stand out. A good example is the underwhelming Airstrike ability on Skyhammer.”
OK, makes sense. Keep on working with this. I think it is really important that the characters’ abilities are as significant as possible.
“Class archetypes have prevented us doing more interesting and unique ‘hybrid’ characters, we’ve not always ‘followed the fun’ to use a common design phrase.”
I guess this is one of the drawbacks of having a pre-planned, deductive way of thinking and working in game development. When I make custom maps, I have a more inductive way of progressing. Although I have an overall, basic plan, I always ‘follow the fun’. It can lead to some pretty cool things–not that my (pathetic) maps are anything like your triple-A stuff :slight_smile:
“Fixed weapon load-outs for each character provide a barrier to players who prefer specific weapon types, but that want to use that character’s abilities.”
Might be true but if you offer too many unique weapon load-outs, there are risks too. I mean, one of the things I disliked with Brink, was that there were tons of weapons and I never understood which ones to pick to optimize my chances. It might be due to my dull brain, but still: I do not want to fall down in a game and thinking to myself: “Did I lose that duel because I got powned, which I can accept, or was it because I fail at deciphering all the weapon choices at match start?”.

You then describe a number of upcoming changes:
Removing classes, and focus on characters as individual. There will be medics and engis and such, but they will be able to play much wider roles on the battlefield. This sounds promising. We just have to test this. It will, hopefully, allow a player to pick almost any character and play the type of role that he or she wants, i.e. defence, attack, support, sneaking et cetera. Let’s see how it works out. (You also talk about giving the players freedom to choose secondary weapons, which also could work out nicely.)

About the classless objectives: Do we not have them, already, in some maps? First stage on Camden, for example, all members of the attacking team can flip out their PDAs and start hacking that railroad switch. Or are you saying that all objectives from now on will be classless? Or that you will just increase the ratio of classless objectives? Oh. My. God. In the next paragraph, you lay it out clearly: all characters will be able to plant, arm, diffuse, repair, construct and so on (if I understand you correctly). This will indeed be a paradigm shift. I like rad ideas. Let’s test this!

About removing frag grenades from the load-out: OK. We’ll test it. Your arguments are solid. By the way, the throwing mechanics of the frag nades have been good so far, in case you are wondering. Their arch (in the air) is nice and has a natural feel to it, and it is nice to bounce them off a wall, around a corner, if the need arises. Since they are so good, with minor tweaks, I do not see any rational reason for completely removing them from the game. Come on, a game needs nades. So, as you say, one way could be to give them back to a specific character.

In sum, it all sounds like some rad ideas, and let’s test them. But aren’t you afraid that you, at the same time, will waste time? Do you have the funds, resources to keep testing all these ideas? Well, I guess so, otherwise you wouldn’t ship this next update.