Devs Guide 2 Balancing Phantom

(Tommy) #1

Everyone has a different opinion on how phantom should be balanced. And, we know this is something the devs would like to do. So, let’s make it a little easier for them. What in general do you think should be changed about this merc?

(ASTOUNDINGSHELL) #2

I thnk they should jsut remove the momentum canceling of his swor dand ncrease his speed a bit

(DatAssparagus) #3

Things I’d like to see changed for phantom after extensively phantom play.

  • Speed Increase.
  • Lower hum noise. It should be faint until hes within reaction time distance which then it should be cranked up exponentially. If phantom is behind you, you should know, but not until hes about to knife you. Otherwise hes not there unless you try very hard to look for him or listen.
  • Extended reach on his sword.
  • Headshots with the melee should be rewarded with increased damage like bullets.

An ability I haven’t yet suggested - Assassination targeting.

A laser dart gun that marks targets (Single or AOE pool style). Marked targets are spotted and will take an increased damage hit on the first bullet/knife attack. This will last 10 seconds and the market merc will be notified via UI and a distinct Sound notification. Cooldown = 25s.

Not only does this fit phantoms intended role but also gives him the much needed utility hes lacking in competitive.

(m86edit) #4

i would like a support ability, because right now if a heartbeat sensor or redeye spots phantom hes basically useless as those abilities completely nullify his ability to avoid detection.

(JJMAJR) #5

Support ability. He needs to be as strong as an Assault (pubs eat dick) or have a spotter ability. If none of that, then make him give ammo, revives, or complete objectives, because otherwise he’s useless.

(bizarreRectangle) #6

I don’t really mean REWORK, but since for some reason there is no option for “small changes to cloak” or “melee change”, I’ll just vote for this. A support ability for phantom is stupid, vass and redeye already have recon support abilities. Phantom does his job as a recon just fine.

I already said this in an older thread but I’ll repeat. Changes I think will be best:
Get rid of that stupid humming sound, but keep the activation audio que.

Maybe lunge can have a slightly longer window of damage, not as long as when he was first released a few months ago, but a little longer than now. Keep the turn speed limit so you
can’t beyblade. And maybe like @astoundingShellfish said he won’t lose momentum when he uses the lunge. I don’t know maybe that’ll be going too far.

I think shield can stay, it takes 70 damage sure. But the cloak drains pretty fast, so most of the time you’re having >50 damage to tank. I find that I still can’t get out of situations which i wouldn’t have without the shield, it really doesn’t help that much. It is useful for handy escapes though and it helps phantom do his job, which is good! The extremely cheap kills before phantom got nerfed is (I’m pretty sure) 95% because of that crazy katana. 108 damage guaranteed, you could deal damage for 10 seconds and just spin around your katana wherever you wanted.

I like phantom as he is (concept-wise), I think with these changes he’ll be perfect. I’ll be happy with even just the hum removed. Everyone’s saying he needs competitive viability, well, splash damage themselves said they will keep producing mercs that don’t have as much niche’ for comp like phantom.

(Gh0st1e) #7

The only change that needs to be made to Phantom is to return him to the original state he was in when he was introduced and then remove the damage absorb of his refractive armor. That was the source of pretty much all complaints about him (excluding beyblade but that nerf affected everyone).

(bizarreRectangle) #8

Damage absorb is fine. I think return him to his original state, then reduce the window of damage for lunge only slightly. And turn speed limit on lunge only. That would work better. And keep the change where he is a lot less visible when not sprinting.

(darlingClaymore) #9

Either leave as is, or give him a buff. Phantom is one of my favorite mercs insert bane meme here

(Drcipres) #10

He is supposed to be a recon class, right now is like a bad version of fragger, instead of frag nades, he got a katana
Things that do boom > sharp sticks

(bizarreRectangle) #11

But he is a recon class. He can attack from where you can’t see him (duh), this induces a lot of fear and paranoia. Makes them look behind their back constantly and puts a setback in their plans. This actually helped my team complete objectives, since the phantom would pop up behind defenders and make them go crazy. Then he chops them all up and puts them in a bag. Then he puts them in a pot to make mercenary stew for his family after a long day of work.

(Naonna) #12

The above post is only true if someone is blind enough not to notice how visible his cloak is, even when it’s standing still. - Even if phantom wants to try to wait for enemies to come to him, they’ll hear his humming cloak and be prepared easily. Currently, the only use for the cloak is getting the ‘first’ shot after getting hit while in cloak: nothing having to do with sneaking around.

(bizarreRectangle) #13

Which is why i suggested my changes. Remove the humming. Cloak is actually quite invisible if you’re not sprinting. Either way if you’re going behind people, people can glance at you and do nothing about it. Only if they’re looking directly at you (for a while) will they start shooting you. I don’t mind making him more invisible too. I read somewhere that its more visible in the dark or something. I just want it to be maybe more invisible and more consistent (none of this more visible in the dark bs).

These changes would def help with sneaking around and helping phantom do what he does best.

(DeadAlive) #14

I say rework and add something. As long as you balance it, we’ll be fine.

For example, the cloak meter could be used for a 2nd ability, so you either use one or the other, depending on the situation in the field.

Someone in another thread suggested an HP reporting scan, that would briefly show an HP bar or flag over enemies, indicating which ones can be taken down the easiest. I really like this idea. It could last for maybe 3-5 seconds.

Again, this would use the cloak cooldown meter, so Phantom could not use both abilities at the same time.

Another thing I haven’t seen mentioned is the over punishing nature of being spotted via IR and HB sensors. These are used quite a bit, which not only instantly decloaks you, but you have to sit through the cooldown timer as well. That is WAY too harsh for an already tough class to play.

The sensor detection and punishment needs a complete rework.

Another possible idea for the 2nd ability would be the ability to detect and huntdown enemy heartbeat sensors, and also to briefly spot Redeye enemies for teammates.

(JJMAJR) #15

Recon classes are defined by their ability to give information to their team. If all Phantom does is act like an absent player when he gives information to his team, he doesn’t get anything done at all.

Phantom needs a spotter ability or grenades. Otherwise, he’s a strictly worse version of the assault and recon mercs in the game.

Natter. Irrelevant information. How much time do you put into competitive matches?

[quote=“spaceboy;113105”]I say rework and add something. As long as you balance it, we’ll be fine.

For example, the cloak meter could be used for a 2nd ability, so you either use one or the other, depending on the situation in the field.

Someone in another thread suggested an HP reporting scan, that would briefly show an HP bar or flag over enemies, indicating which ones can be taken down the easiest. I really like this idea. It could last for maybe 3-5 seconds.

Again, this would use the cloak cooldown meter, so Phantom could not use both abilities at the same time.

Another thing I haven’t seen mentioned is the over punishing nature of being spotted via IR and HB sensors. These are used quite a bit, which not only instantly decloaks you, but you have to sit through the cooldown timer as well. That is WAY too harsh for an already tough class to play.

The sensor detection and punishment needs a complete rework.

Another possible idea for the 2nd ability would be the ability to detect and huntdown enemy heartbeat sensors, and also to briefly spot Redeye enemies for teammates.[/quote]

It seems nice, but more “direct” detection abilities need a delay before they give information. The “delay” should have the purpose of making Phantom able to get out of sight before sending the info to his team, meaning that the ability should only be cancelled when the Phantom gets downed or stunned.

(bizarreRectangle) #16

I don’t do competitive matches, simply because I have to wait 40+ minutes and still not get a match. I’ve been invited to a party and went on a competitive match, the atmosphere wasn’t very different. The skill ceiling was no different either. It’s simply a match-making pub.

The thing about phantom is he can’t spot right? But just because he can’t spot you can’t just say he’s not a recon. Recons all have one thing in common, not spotting, not relaying info, but it’s attacking people where they can’t see them and causing fear. Basically assassination. It’s simply what they all have in common.

The assaults all break through defenses and kill everyone, but sometimes there are areas where they can’t reach the enemies or can’t use their heavy weapons properly. Then you call in a recon. They can kill people where an assault can’t. Red eye can throw smokes to confuse people, vassili can spot people through walls and pop their heads and phantom can get in there with his cloak and kill them from behind. Sometimes you just need a recon to make pushing much easier. Spotting simply helps them, it’s not what they have in common.

(signofzeta) #17

Apparently Thunder isn’t an Assault because he has something that doesn’t involve killing enemies, according to how some people describe assault mercs.

A 90HP merc with just a sniper rifle and maybe an explosive ability like a satchel charge would most likely, by Splash Damage, to be labeled as a Recon.

Designing the class system so that a class must have a certain ability is bad design. There is large design space for mercs that kill enemies, but small design space for mercs that spot, give ammo, or give health. Most mercs have 2 abilities. I doubt Splash Damage wants to be in a situation where Assault mercs outnumber mercs from other classes, and they don’t want to be in a situation where one class has 20 mercs that do pretty much the same thing just because one of the 2 ability slots must be either give health, give ammo, or spot.

According to the mercs released so far, the medic probably has the most specific class identity, while the recon has the most diverse.

If anything, adjectives should be used to describe the classes. Assaults are aggressive, and Recons are stealthy. Medics are supportive and selfless. Engineers are tactical and defensive. Fire supports are tactical and supportive.

Considering that there are 4 assaults, Phantom should not changed into assault, or else we have 5 assaults, and 3 recons, and I would rather have 4 of each, provided we get Aimee and Turtle later. I like the idea that Phantom cancels heartbeat sensors and redeye IR goggle spotting of teammates. Pretty much the opposite of a spotter. Instead of revealing enemies, you hide your teammates.

I like the idea where if Phantom becomes invisible, there is this radius around him that cancels detection of teammates from enemies, except for himself, meaning your enemy might see one person when they actually see a bunch of people.

(Reddeadcap) #18

Bringing in my comment on Phantom from another thread.

I see where SD were going but theres a reason why the way Refractive Armor works isn’t common.

The main issue is that the way his Refractive Armor currently works it is neither an effective armor or an effective cloak.
Many suggest deviding these into two abilities, a very effective cloak and a very effective armor, but my thoughts on changing him are much more simple and straight foward

My suggestion for the armor/health people complain about would be giving him back the 120 health or 125 tops, but no more armor.

The reason why this would make sense is that health is reflected on the characters by how much armor the character in question is wearing and Phantom is really armored, but keeping his current speed as a passive attribute to him, suggesting his armor, while very protective is still light due to the high quality prototype technological nature of it.

As for Refractive Armor in on itself; Just make an invisibility cloak, an effective one. Less visible and noise and maybe set to a constant set drainage speed rather than have it based on how fast Phantom would be moving, but deactivated instantly when detected like before, rather than staying invisible with a red diamond over one’s head.

Phantom is a closer oriented Recon but he lacks any way to actually recon, sure a teammate with a mic would be a great idea but sometimes such co-operation isn’t common.
In comes the Comm’s hack I mentioned earlier which would fit his Bio mentions not trusting him with your phone.

My idea on Comm’s hack would be that it’d have a longer lasting and largest area of effect at the price of much larger cooldownthan other.

For those who have no clue how it works, In Brink an Operative character would go up to a downed enemy and start a quick 2.5 seconds “Comms Hack” which would instantly detect all enemy players instant, maybe having a decay on enemy players of around 5 seconds so if someone was drop themselves Phantom would still be able to interact with the corpse, the only exception i think would be if they’ve been finished or gibbed.

(Naonna) #19

@Redcap you could just camp one corpse - not a great idea. - also it would make other spotters useless in comparison.

(Reddeadcap) #20

My idea would be that Phantom would leave himself vulnerable to detect enemies, which other Recons wouldn’t have to worry about, with a lengthy cooldown along with that Detecting everyone seams fair.

I admit isn’t all that detailed but the last bit explains, one couldn’t repeatedly interact with the same corpse as the ability to interact with it would decay.
Not only so that the person who’s down could just tap out and leave Phantom empty handed but also to give Phantom a deadline to reach the body, once done, No more interaction with the corpse in question.

There is a bit of an annoying fact that people look at Vasilli as just a Sniper and have his heartbeat sensor gathering dust, Same goes for Redeye’s IR Goggle.

To put it into perspective.

Redeye Can detect with his IR gogle so long as he sees an enemy and has a decent overheat mechanic as to not having players just mark everyone constantly, also leaving enemies blind with his smoke Redeye can stay just out of harms way so long as someone doesn’t blow it away.

Vasilli has a heartbeat sensor to detect enemies around it, tossed like a grenade but that can, be destroyed and best used on a chokepoint, this leaves Vasilli much farther away from the action.

Aimee, if Console Commands are right. Tosses her third eye cam, which can stick to anything and can see from the camera’s line of sight. So long as she’s looking at enemies through the cam which can be placed anywhere and nobody notices a small red light in the distance or up on buildings, Aimee can Spot anyone without exposing herself as it’s best used to toss the cam beforehand.

This would really fit one of Phantom’s best attributes since if Phantom were to attack an enemy who’s not too close to the rest of their team, Phantom could mark the rest of the enemies for his teammates, at the price of being out in the open and vulnerable during the process.