Devs Guide 2 Balancing Phantom

(Naonna) #21

Devs already said phantom will not be getting a spotter ability. Find something else, please.

(bontsa) #22

People like to take effort into more meaningless things too. This is an idea that was tossed around (by Redcap I recall?) before devs stated directly no-no for spotting ability, and since it’s one of the refined ideas out there, why would there be any harm done sharing it around anyway?

Stuff carved even in stone vanishes over time. Good ideas can spawn other, different ones based on same principles and such. So whynot, I wouldn’t go calling peeps to “find something else” when its pretty well thought-through before presentation ^^ Takes literally 1minute to look at it and grab a stand on the idea, to think about it or not. So can developers if they ever see such. No harm done.

I do think though that Phantom strikes to me as more of “anti-spotter” type fella, due his lone play nature. Making it right would give him team utility too.

(Naonna) #23

I suppose, but we need to keep within the guidelines SD requested if any of our ideas are going to be noticed.

(bontsa) #24

Bleh, people have suggested him having insta-gib assasination ability and whatnot speed dashes etc. I think devs have already an eye to pick cherries out of a ball pool.

Man I started craving for cherry pie now.

(SereneFlight) #25

Obviously… It’s something people wanted… so obviously they’re not gonna do it… but they’re going to do stuff nobody asked for like removing conc. nade cooking (still wondering if somebody really asked for it or not…)

Oh well… I’m still waiting for Phantom-sama to get a spotting ability… one day he shall become a real recon merc.

(Amerika) #26

Devs also said that aimpunch/flinch would not change under any circumstances…only to have it almost immediately changed and later on damn near removed from the game.

Community feedback, ideas and support are vital to making a change that is needed in the game. SD is not blind/deaf when there is overwhelming and unified support.

The main issue with getting Phantom changed is the vast ideas of what people want changed. Some people play Phantom as melee only and don’t even try to shoot people. Others try to shoot people almost entirely. This vastly changes your viewpoint on how good Phantom is AND what you want to see changed. That makes proposals for change be extremely divisive and lacking that unified approach that is needed.

The one thing I believe everyone could agree on, regardless of playstyle, is that Phantom needs a secondary utility ability similar to Spotting, EMP or other ideas that are non-combat related. This would make him an asset to the team no matter how you chose to play. So far the unified front hasn’t been very attainable though.

(watsyurdeal) #27

I have to agree with @Amerika

If TF2 taught me anything with the hours of Spy under my belt, is that a strictly melee only stealth class does not work against smart players. It becomes ultimately very situional and not at all reliable, so you need to provide a means to attack in a more direct manner. Thankfully Splash Damage was smart and gave him SMGs, but there’s still a problem.

He can not actually get behind enemies that well, imo if the enemy can clearly see something coming toward them from across the map, then you’re screwed. He needs full cloak, and without it feeling cheap it needs to require Phantom decloak to attack interact with allies/objectives. And on top of that, he needs some sort of utility, since he is NOT AN ASSAULT CLASS. Because let’s be honest, Fragger and Nader will always beat him in terms of being picked for killing people, it’s just the simple truth of things. He needs some sort of second ability that adds a niche for him to use.

People who keep trying to use Phantom as a melee only merc will only be tyrannosaurus rekt by any competent player.

(JJMAJR) #28

Phantom can become an assault class with good area denial and/or increases to killing power.

A recon upgrade however is a much more direct way to balance him.

(Haki) #29

What If they gave him the same stats as Phoenix ?

100 health, 430 movement speed. they would have to adjust the draining of the cloak not being faster than it is right now, but otherwise I would really enjoy higher movement and it would also help out with the whole melee issue.

(JJMAJR) #30

They instead should just make Phantom better in general. His health and speed are fine, especially if you are playing Phantom with guns instead of knives. But, he needs to be able to have the same killing power that Fragger, Nader, and especially Rhino have; the same problem is shown with Thunder as it is with Phantom.

Thunder is meant to be able to disable Aura+Rhino rushes. He’s supposed to make high health meaningless with his primary ability. But he is very bad because that his ability to go toe-to-toe with other classes is subpar, and his confusion ability doesn’t work well with his stats. Not to mention the fact that he friendly fires because that the devs thought flashbangs would be overpowered.

Both Phantom and Thunder are in the same situation at the moment. They are assault classes that can’t hold up to what they should be doing. They need to be more capable of killing/surviving or have to obtain the ability to spot enemies.

And finally, if something friendly fires as a balancing tool, the tool is likely just going to need to be reworked. Flashbangs need to be fixed, if SD can’t handle a tanky class getting a flashbang, then they should have put it on a lighter body, not add griefing to pub servers. If need be, make the flashbang user a glass cannon.

Case in point: Nader.

(Reddeadcap) #31

[quote=“SereneFlight;120729”]
Oh well… I’m still waiting for Phantom-sama to get a spotting ability… one day he shall become a real recon merc.[/quote]

I can in a way understand the lack of cooking, theu decreased the fuse time a bit aswell to make up for the loss of it.

My guess is to make playing against and as Fragger and Thunder differently, as for the removal of the mouse sensitivity decreasion… it’s just pointless.
In today’s stream I asked Shoe (few times actually) if it’s permanent, he said nothing was set in stone, so we can only hope it was for the time being.

I can see where SD were going with him being a cloaking Recon rather than a detection one, it’s like how Nader’s is all about indirect fire rather than head on combat/tanking compared to other Assaults, especially compared to Rhino and his minigun.

@JJMAJR

As for Phantom the big changes that were done to him after his first week I could see the idea but I don’t get the implementation.
For starters the way Refractive Armour’s shield works makes little sense as character’s health and speed are based on how visibly armored they are.
They could’ve given him some health between 120 and 130 but the speed of someone around 100 or 110, suggesting the armor is durable but also light.

The idea that the katana should be only available to him makes a lot of sense, as by looking at default loadouts of every merc it was intended, some would say the idea is boring but hear me out on this.

Just about everyone has the Beckhill, makes sense as it’s a the usual combat knife.

Vasilli and I’m guessing also Aimee have the Stilnotto, unlike the beckhill it’s best used with a well timed Right mouse button stab, rather than constant left mouse button slashes, like a sniper rifle.

Redeye has the Kukri, He’s Australian and thus fitting, especially as it fills a better role than the Stilnotto for someone who’s more close range than them by default.

Proxy has a Cricket bat, listen to many of her melee lines and ones that aren’t just a general “hah, got ya.” are generally sports related, especially one takes into account how her figure and outfit is athletic, the main reason why this isn’t seen as out of place on other mercs is because the game is set in Englaind.

Finally Phantom, the katana which fits his general appearance of a sort of Samurai/Ninja mixed into one.

The only thing missing is Sawbonez using his saw, which is obviously carrying and suggests [url=“https://youtu.be/t5zv-Y2UK7A?t=40s”]he’d use on someone and the hatchet on Proxy’s belt which in the game’s file suggests it’s in the works as theres a tomahawk_01 there.

(ostmustis) #32

just remove secondary attack penalty for melee, its so bs anyway