Demo rewind feature - is that possible?

(Ashog) #1

The thing that has been missing in any of the multiplayer shooters I played - a cvar to rewind a currently replayed demo from current position several “demoticks” back (here a “demotick” is a length of 10 seconds for example). I know that for ETQW the cvars like “placeDemoCutStartMarker” for demo-cutting and “writejumpstartdemo” for demo-replaying-from-a-marked-timepoint exist which is very very nice, but they are IMHO not enough for an easy demo filming process.

It might be a stupid idea but why not recording a special symbol into each demo file, say each 10 seconds, call it a “demotick” and use a cvar something like demo_rewind “n” , where “n” is a number of demoticks back to rewind to. For example, if I’m in the middle of replaying a demo and I just saw a nice moment, I, instead of relaunching the demo and using fast forward or using playjumpstartdemo cvar (provided I didn’t forget to press writejumpstartdemo each 10-20 seconds), bind and press demo_rewind “2” and the game starts the same demo from the point of ca. 10-20 seconds before the timepoint when I pressed the rewind-bound button. That is, the game realizes the current position of the last encountered demotick symbol in the demo and skips back 2 demoticks.

This could as well possibly help in some cases when the demos get broken. If the demotick symbols in demos get numbered, then a cvar like demo_GoToTick “m” could allow to skip demoplay to a certain part of the demo, even if originally the demo stopped playing somewhere in the beginning or in the middle… This is probably a mad idea of a person who doesn’t understand shit in programming and idtech engines, but it would be sooooo nice if smth like that gets implemented in Brink :slight_smile:

(RR2DO2) #2

ETQW did support that too, however a lot of game systems aren’t that friendly to going backwards in time. It quite often has a lot of knock-on effects on systems that you normally wouldn’t have to deal with. The demo part of it is ‘easy’ the rest is a lot of work for a not that important feature.

I believe in ETQW you can still do it by writing out a set of keyframes for a demo and use the console command associated with demo forward/back or so. Or they might have been removed as some systems such as the effect/particle systems didn’t deal with it (be prepared to crash if it does work).

(timestart) #3 

generateNetDemoKeyFrames
keyFramePrev
keyFrameNext

Yeah they are still there but don’t really work too well - your view and things don’t update all the time so they are only really useful for rewinding to place a jump start demo then loading that.

Something I’d like to see though would be to have renderNetDemo stop playing the demo after the last frame (when specifying a frame range) is written, instead of playing to the end of the demo.

(DarkangelUK) #4

Curious if demos will be available for the console version? Halo 3’s ‘films’ (roflcakes) are very popular, and it seems being able to capture and playback games is becoming quite common. There’s still plenty stuff shared in Halo 3 today, with kills of the week etc on Halo Waypoint.

(brbrbr) #5

how about dumping frames in other[than TGA still images, sequences]countainers ?
like ASF/AVI, MKV, OGM and etc.

(3Suns) #6

Demos, or Saved Films, as they are called for Halo 3, are a cool novelty, but for me, I would rather be playing the game than watching it, or worse, editing films of it. I understand the appeal, and it can be a useful tool not just for competitive gamers, but I think for the developers themselves in bug squashing. However, if it is a resource expensive feature to develop, spend the resources elsewhere, imo.

(brbrbr) #7

but it[as well as community-made demos/movies] help PR/sell products, as well as crowdsource other things.
so tradeoff is not always SO easy and PLAIN.

(SockDog) #8

I’d have to agree. Brink has a very distinctive look and levels of customisation. Movies created with it will scream Brink. Aiding movie makers with more than the usual basic demo tools could lead to a lot of free exposure. Better tools could then come as DLC or via third parties but adding just some more tools to the basic build could help the game be adopted as a good Machinima platform.

Actually SD should get Bethesda to put this down as a critical marketing expense.

(Nail) #9

I believe all the basic capture and render tools already exist in the engine

(3Suns) #10

Good points about PR. Wasn’t thinking of that at all. Very true.

(DarkangelUK) #11

Basic… and poor. It’s just capture with limitations.

(SockDog) #12

I’m not saying they need to put in super advanced features but removing barriers to making movies could be a positive investment of time (like I say perhaps marketing money not game money).

If GTA IV can do it on a sucky PC port why not SD with a fantastic looking Brink?

(digibob) #13

Because their demo system might work in a fundamentally different way :slight_smile:

(stealth6) #14

this feature would be so cool, countless times I’ve thought dam that would be handy, especially when you make a like 10-20min demo and are watching it to get the 30 seconds of footage you need.

Most of the time pretty time consuming.

(Ashog) #15

[quote=RR2DO2;212249]ETQW did support that too, however a lot of game systems aren’t that friendly to going backwards in time. It quite often has a lot of knock-on effects on systems that you normally wouldn’t have to deal with. The demo part of it is ‘easy’ the rest is a lot of work for a not that important feature.

I believe in ETQW you can still do it by writing out a set of keyframes for a demo and use the console command associated with demo forward/back or so. Or they might have been removed as some systems such as the effect/particle systems didn’t deal with it (be prepared to crash if it does work).[/quote]

I think I may have used a wrong word by calling it demo “rewind”. Basically what is needed is the jumpstartdemo thing but automatic (without placing manually a marker) in order to start a demo again from several keyframes before. If the keyframe feature is in fact in the game already (didn’t know it’s in) why not using it to work like the jumpstartdemo does - restart a demo from a marker? What is the difference anyway between these: ??
generateNetDemoKeyFrames
playjumpstartdemo

(DarkangelUK) #16

[QUOTE=stealth6;212411]this feature would be so cool, countless times I’ve thought dam that would be handy, especially when you make a like 10-20min demo and are watching it to get the 30 seconds of footage you need.

Most of the time pretty time consuming.[/QUOTE]

You do know you can timescale… and also specify which section you want to capture? Even if you’re a frapswhore… you can still timescale to the correct part.

(Wussie) #17

I too, would like to see proper capturing support, but it’s unlikely to happen - and understandably so. If you want it done properly it’s pretty non-trivial to implement and will likely be very time consuming. Add to that the fact that statistically a small minority of the consumers will ever get in touch with the technology or it’s products.

(Cankor) #18

I got my kid EA’s Skate 2. He would do some tricks and then set camera locations and stuf and in about 20 seconds make a pretty cool little move. I thought that was really cool, adds a lot to the game.

Of course a FPS isn’t about doing tricks and showing off, except for sometimes :slight_smile:

Not sure that SD has the time to invest in something like that, but maybe it’s not that huge of an undertaking (since the basic infrastructure already seems to be there maybe it’s mostly UI)? Seems like a golden opportunity to set a new bar, impress reviewers, please the gamers, and promote the game all at the same time.

(SockDog) #19

I was just throwing out GTA IV as I expect they saw an opportunity there to build something around the game/engine.

Engine limitations aside surely there is scope to include in game features that others have had to mod or use third party apps to do. I shudder to suggest it but even something like the ability to upload a demo to youtube via the game is something consoles commonly do and would increase Brink’s exposure.

Just saying, the game looks stunning, Bethesda should be using it to sell itself by giving the gamers tools to publicise it.

(brbrbr) #20

+2
i hope so.