Dear Splash Damage

(Anti) #61

[QUOTE=acQu;440533]That video is pretty much what i also envision. Would it fit? Depends on what game you envision.

I am also not quite able to grasp the concern of tracking though, since i am used to scenarios where a game worked very well with this type of movement system. Basically W:ET firefights were not about jumping, they were mostly about strafing left to right and crouching meanwhile. No one jumped or used his trickjump ability to gain advantage during a firefight. It was just not worth it.

Am pretty sad actually, since i always thought this would be added during the process of alpha … :([/QUOTE]

Yep, I understand fire fights, where both parties committed, happened more on a plane and without jumping. It’s in the lead in to fights as well as people skipping out of or through them where tracking becomes more of a concern for us.

(Humate) #62

acQu I believe Anti is referring to when a player is trying to track a strafe jumper that is travelling from a to b.

But youre correct with regards to strafe jumping and combat - shooting interupts forward movement anyway, just like DB.
So its not an issue in regards to fighting while strafe-jumping

edit: delete post too slow.

(iwound) #63

my preference would be a one time only speed increase for a one off trick jump. then slow down.
this continual skip jumping is annoying to watch in game.
it ends up being necessary to do in order to keep up.

id be quiet happy it stayed out completely. this is a new game after all.

(acQu) #64

Ah ok. Well, i will not mention it anymore then, since the decision is done and just hope for the best and other ways to improve movement.

But one last counter argument aka evidence xD (sry): In W:ET this movement system was done to the extreme with the emergence of double jump mods xD Yes, i know, many don’t like it. But i think it fits here very well as proof of concept, since as long as you had vision to your enemy and he was crossing from a to b the tracking was not problem. Played those mods quite frequently as much as more serious ones and i think i can judge this pretty well, although i am not the best gamer.

Well then, ok. I am just saying: this is probably the biggest thing i was waiting for and the decision is settled. Moving on …

(mortis) #65

Fine wine is not consumed on the same day as it is created. It must be aged in a barrel, then bottled and laid down to rest for a bit in order to develop the smooth, rich flavors that are expected of it. Game design is the same way, in that a steady, patient approach is likely to produce better results down the line than hasty short-term appeasements.

I can’t begin tell you how many scripts that I had to test back in the day in order to make very minor changes to gameplay in ET. Extensive play testing was the only way to test changes, and I would only change one variable at a time in order to isolate its effect on the overall playability (adding a slight attacker bias in stopwatch mode, for example). Prior to ET, I would hack out a quick map in UT in a couple of days, but refining the finer details took forever, even in a game with great balance and reasonable weapons.

My only advice the to group is to relax and let things develop. I don’t expect DB to be ET2, but it should definitely be examined as a model as it truly was “free to play”, and quite popular despite zero marketing. There are lessons to be learned there!

–Mortis

(BomBaKlaK) #66

I live with the main 1rst character designer of Warsow ! :stuck_out_tongue:
We love this kind of movement hope some strafe and wall jumps in your future games, maybe in a mod for DB if there is an SDK :wink:

(DarkangelUK) #67

I think there needs to be some clarification given on the various strafe videos that people posted.

Quake/ET/RtCW: Those all have ground + air acceleration, so when you’re strafing, each directional mouse turn on the ground increases speed via the friction. The angle of your mouse+holding strafe while in the air also causes acceleration, so basically the whole motion and mechanic is designed to gain speed through-out strafe movement.

ETQW: This also has ground accel but the air accel was much more subtle and didn’t grant much of a speed gain at all. In fact ETQW had air drag which slowed you down after a certain point (bizarrely there was no air drag when parachuting). This was partially made up for by the speed gain when strafing up a minor sloped surface and also the ramping was kinda fun too.

BF3: I believe this only has ground acceleration, there’s no air accel at all… the only reason you’re even using left/right strafe keys here is to keep you moving forward and stop you veering off to the side.

I’d say my thoughts on movement are well known, but I’m resolved to the fact that nothing like it will make it into DB. If we’re lucky we’ll get something like BF3 but that’s about it. You can tell with the way DB plays that it was never ever designed with complex movement in mind and I feel there’s too much invested to change it up and add anything… they’ve passed the point of no return basically.

(pulley) #68

as i can tell Darkangel is right. They are to far on to change this system. But i really hope they will add the BF3 system, because now the movement goes more to cod… and thats not they way it should be to me

(INF3RN0) #69

What I’d like to see is something that could replace the concept if possible because it does add an extra layer to the game play. If the main concern is speed, mastery, or it playing too significant of a role, then surely an alternate movement mechanic could be devised that doesn’t have these effects. Something is always better than nothing, but maybe you’ve already thought about it.

(Mustang) #70

[QUOTE=Samurai.;440480]It appears when we use terms such as “strafe jumping” that it gets misinterpreted of what we mean…

<snip>[/QUOTE]
Which is what I was trying to get across when I said:

TLDR; /agree

+rep for shirosae, I don’t understand how someone could be in favour of strafe-jumping but against sliding.

(warbie) #71

Speak for yourself :wink:

I want this:

//youtu.be/oUJUjKeMbkw

I’m not sure what the reason for going against this kind movement is either. Strafe jumping was never used in combat and, infact, very, very rarely when in the los of the other team. It was used to get to places quickly and that’s it as strafe jumping anywhere near someone gave them free shots and an easy kill. I sunk absolutely obscene amounts of hours into RTCW and ET and could probably count the amount of times I was trying to track a strafe jumping opponent on both hands. It just didn’t happen. I also don’t buy that it’s a barrier to entry in any way. The majority of people who played RTCW and ET didn’t even know what strafe jumping was, had no opinion either way and didn’t care. The rest wanted to learn how to do it to get better at the game. Both games were better for its inclusion and DB would be too.

What also blows my mind is that strafe jumping is considered a no no but people are seriously considering being able to slide about! wtf.

//end rant :slight_smile:

(Kendle) #72

[QUOTE=warbie;440588]Speak for yourself :wink:

I want this:

//youtu.be/oUJUjKeMbkw

[/quote]

Except that’s not full on Quake style strafe-jumping.

I’m sure DarkAngel can correct me if I’m wrong but I always thought ET and RTCW had a restriction on chaining together a sequence of jumps, you couldn’t gain greater and greater distance and speed?

The rest of your post I agree with, I don’t think it would break the game, certainly not combat wise, but I do see where they’re coming from in terms of how it might fit. RTCW and ET were unashamedly arcade, DB isn’t, being set in a real world location with fairly authentic characters and weapons.

(warbie) #73

Sure, I wasn’t being that specific. I’m not saying we need a carbon copy either (although I’d argue it’s up there with the many things RTCW did right and would welcome the return) but some form of advanced movement, that doesn’t include sliding!, would only add to the game.

(pulley) #74

and bring back DB TV so we dont have to look at warwitchs ugly face XD Just making fun :slight_smile:

(Kendle) #75

Yeah, it’s just that people say “we want strafe-jumping”, SD think “blimey, that’ll be a shed-load of work and doesn’t fit the game” when in fact what most of us want (with the exception of DarkAngel maybe) is just to jump, twist a bit, go a bit faster, maybe every other jump or something, rather than just press W and point.

That’s not particularly advanced IMO, and is something I think SD should consider, so I’m not disagreeing with anyone who wants better movement, I just think we need to define what it is we want, and keeping it simple like an air speed increase for example would be a good place to start maybe.

(acQu) #76

What about increasing jump length (basically the way you travel from A to B in air, not the jump height) via some mechanism similar to strafe-jump. It could be the same underlying principle used as it was used with strafe-jumping aka before you jump you move your crosshair, hit a strafe key, and jump. That way you can jump a longer distance.

So it would be basically like putting all your energy into a jump, to jump wider :slight_smile:

Would be start at least :slight_smile:

And i agree: i expect movement to be more responsive in the future just by the removal of the acceleration-blockage. Then from there i think some more mechanisms similar can be developed. I saw crouch jumping for example. This would be about the same as i proposed with the result to increase jump distance (not height). Maybe the shift key aka crouch can play a more vital role in what i proposed, so that you can jump even wider.

(Anti) #77

Indeed. We’ve had some ideas and there are things we might test, but any suggestions any of you have we’d love to hear.

(Anti) #78

[QUOTE=acQu;440606]
And i agree: i expect movement to be more responsive in the future just by the removal of the acceleration-blockage. [/QUOTE]

I’m reliably informed from a test we did today that acceleration in ET pro means a full left strafe turned to a full right strafe takes 300ms. In DB the same action takes 250ms. When you folks refer to accel as an issue are you talking about strafe and in which game? Or are you talking about something like standing to full forwards sprint?

(acQu) #79

Yes, from full left/right strafe to the other side. I can’t play since last patch, so you might have adjusted it in the meantime, but to me the character control in this regard felt odd the last time i tried. Maybe it is due to other parameters, but there was a difference. I perceived it slower and less responsive compared to W:ET. If i can play again, i might be able to say more about this.

(iwound) #80

Could it not be when you sprint and have upward movement ie a ramp or similar and then jump then you gain a greater distance than a flat sprint jump.
this would not be abused as much as free movement as its tied to specific geometry.
It would enable trick jumps, albeit a little easier to perform than strafejump.
it must be though accessible for all to achieve easily with some timing skill required. and not an advantage for a few.