Covy/Sniper Discussion and Feedback

(Bananas) #1

I was just looking to get a discussion on how people feel about covy. Personally I think this class needs some tweaks to it. The class feels like a waste on most objectives to me. I’ll go through and point out some thoughts on certain aspects of the class.

Guns:
The primary weapons for the covy feel decent so far. I feel like the damage is close to what it should be and they perform their role fine. They might be more deadly in the hands of someone more accurate than me. The only suggestion is that maybe the scope should be zoomed out ever so slightly. It feels a little too zoomed in for how fast paced people want the game. Also it seemed that quick scoping didn’t work well.

The secondary weapons also feel fine. I don’t really have much to comment about them.

I think adding a bolt action non scoped rifle would be interesting.

Items/Tools:
This is where I feel the covy is lacking the most. All the other classes have unique tools that are helpful to the team.

The heartbeat sensor is meh. It really doesn’t provide a ton of use from what I’ve seen. I think a lot of people won’t like the idea of any type of radar anyways (especially competitive players).

The throwing knives (although fun) are pretty useless. The target has to be standing still for you to reliably hit them. If they’re standing still, you might as well just headshot them with your sniper rifle. Also if you’re at close enough range, it’s probably better to just use your secondary weapon for the kill.

I thought of a few suggestions for covy items. They may not be very good ideas though.

  1. Smoke Grenades: This is self explanatory. Not sure if this would fit for the style of the game, but could be interesting.

  2. EMP Grenades: Disable the escort objective and turrets temporarily, destroys mines, and causes slight player damage. Could give covys more use to the team.

  3. Gas Grenades: Releases gas (like in the tunnels before you activate the pumps) that causes damage when stood in. Could last for say 3-4 seconds. Would be a good way to stall a push or force enemies out of a area.

Anyways, just curious what people think about the class. I don’t want to see the class become a radar bitch or gimp the team.

(Humate) #2

Just started playing covert… so I dont know if the feedback is of any value.

I like the speed of which you can enter/leave scope.
Also appreciate the switch speed with primary/secondary
And most importantly the gun itself feels rewarding.

Machine pistol - its ok…

Sensor - Interesting twist on radar. Dont want to comment too much on that.
Would prefer if they showed turrets. :slight_smile:

Oh and sockdog is a pretty decent sniper!

(INF3RN0) #3

Toggle zoom- big yes
Smoke- yes
Emp- yes
Gas- maybe something more like Brink caltrops, but idk

I was thinking allowing covey to take a disguise and hack turrets would be quite cool. I also think they should get a scoped assault rifle also- that way you can play a tad more aggressive.

(Violator) #4

Not played it too much, but I think it does need some tweaks here and there.

Cov 1 - sniper rifle is nice, MP is not bad up close. Heartbeat nades - not found them that useful as the maps are so tight anyway. Due to the amount of flanking options though camping away and sniping isn’t really an option (a good thing?)
Cov 2 - couldn’t get on with this as all. The rifle (seemed like the paratroop rifle from W:ET) was not very effective, in my hands at least, ROF + damage seem too low so would die every time once spotted. 2nd weapon was ok I guess. Throwing knives, don’t think I scored a single hit never mind kill :).

Disguises would be a nice addition as per ET / QW, though it would be nice to make them more foolproof against experienced players (it was easy in QW for instance to spot them via footsteps or missing items on toolbelt). EMP grenades would also be nice to temp disable the EV or even turrets (engy placed ones or mounted).

(tokamak) #5

The covert ops has three archetypes. The Assassin, the Saboteur and the Crowd controller. Those are the three directions class specialisation should have.

The Assasin is about foregoing the ability to rack in lots of kills for the ability to make kills easily when they matter the most. W:ET had this down to an art with the Sten gun, a perfect weapon for the covert. It was silent, powerful but it overheated which means that you could effortlessly kill someone but after that you were basically screwed. Perfect for eliminating key targets and worthless for going on killing sprees with.

The Saboteur should be about disabling and undermining the opponent’s team inner infrastructure. And this is where DB is problematic right now. There’s imply not much to disable. There’s no forward spawns (what’s up with that anyway?) and the only deployable is the turret. Personally right now I think this is the weakest point in DB. I hope it’s not concious decision in order to simplify the game and that it’s just a matter of time but currently I feel it lacks the intrigue that made both ET’s so great.

In a typical ET game, both teams have two main interests. First there’s the main objective and secondly there’s maintaining the team’s integrity in order to fulfil that main objective. In an ET game a player constantly has to chose between both. When I’m talking about structure I’m talking about the forward spawns, the side objectives, the team cohesion and their supplies, having all the pieces of the puzzle together and becoming a very strong force in the match. Can you risk going for the win or does the team need a stronger foundation to perform better? In other words, do we go for the fast and risky option, with the potential to lose everything or can we afford a bit more time and have a higher chance of When I’m talking about structure I’m talking about the forward spawns, the side objectives, the team cohesion and their supplies, having all the pieces of the puzzle together and becoming a very strong force in the match.

The job of the Covert Ops always was about chipping away and undermining the other team’s integrity. Taking away a forward spawn, if only for one iteration, to stop the front from being reinforced so the rest of the team has the ability to clean up the fight, disabling vital deployables, coming up in the rear and taking out the squishy and key targets in the team before the rest even knows they’re gone. Oh and don’t get me started on all the juicy objectives that could be taken out with that glorious bleep of the satchel charge.

DB has nothing in this department. Absolutely nothing. Brink didn’t have much either but that was mostly because the operative’s abilities where highly specialistic and very situational. I really want this layer in the game back. I want players having to fear that pushing onwards may expose their cohesion to covert ops meddling and backstabbing yet at the same time be afraid that responding to covert threats may lead them to overreaction and distraction from the main objectives. I want this tension back.

And then thirdly, and I guess this is something that can easily be tacked on top of DB’s current gameplay, there’s the crowd control. For example a sound weapon which is sometimes used to disperse crowds. The sound itself doesn’t need to be obnoxious in the game as you can simulate the effect by lowering the LFO of the targets that are being hit. There’s tear gas (I think toxic gas is inappropriate for a covert), and I believe flash bangs should be covert ops weapons as well. Distraction grenades like in CS GO and spiked med and ammo packs.

In both ET games the covert ops also had the smoke grenade ability. I believe that this is a typical field ops skill. A field ops also works with crowd control but rather than offensive it’s supposed to be tools that are protecting the friendly team rather than disabling the opponent team.

(DarkangelUK) #6

A smoke grenade would be very handy for the 2nd switch objective on Camden.

(tokamak) #7

Perhaps the field ops can have smoke artillery (very wide effect, long lasting) and the covert a smoke grenade for indoors (small effect, short duration but frequently usable).

In this department I was also thinking about a white phosphorus drone strike. It would function similar to the flare grenade in Shattered Horizon. The drone fires several searingly bright flares on the designated target that will last for say, 10-20 seconds and it completely blinds the player when looked at but doesn’t have the lasting effect like flash bangs have (instead the flares themselves last and will only blind as long as you look at them).

(Humate) #8

Cov 1 - sniper rifle is nice, MP is not bad up close. Heartbeat nades - not found them that useful as the maps are so tight anyway. Due to the amount of flanking options though camping away and sniping isn’t really an option (a good thing?)

The sensors basically let you know when youre being flanked, or they can let you know when players are about to move out of cover to take pot shots at you - allowing you take the first shot.

I initially thought the same that sniping wasnt viable on these maps, but playing more or more as sniper1, its definitely viable.

(Bananas) #9

Still playing around with covy. The class isn’t BAD, I just feel it’s a lacking choice compared to other classes. If the spawn timers go up, sniping might have more impact. It’s rather lame to kill someone and have them back in 3 seconds.

Definitely keep throwing knives in the game for fun. They should get their own kill icon (in the top right death counter). I was thinking of how to improve them, and if you could melee while having them out, it might help. That way you could stab close targets and still throw them.

I think a lot of people would love for disguises to come back. Seems like it would be hard for it to work with the way maps are laid out though. Probably wouldn’t fit the game much anyways.

(Humate) #10

Theres an “enemy in disguise” vsay, so that will most likely be there in the final release.

(zenstar) #11

I liked the “marking the enemy” bit from Brink.
Something like that to increase team communication / focus the team would be good. I see Covert Ops as spotters and scouts and would love it if they could mark things (turrets / mines / medics) from a distance through their scope or some binocs or something.
Limit it to marking 1 or 2 at any one time and for a limited time (15 seconds for players? 30 for mines & turrets).

Not a great thing but may make them a little more interesting. At the moment I feel like they don’t really work with the rest of the team. They probably work better with the team in clan games as they do proper spotting via voice coms then, but for pubbing they’re a bit “lone wolf”-ey imo.

(tokamak) #12

Yeah I liked that as well.

I also think the heartbeat sensors are useless. They’re way to ambiguous in what they’re indicating and even if they precisely indicated it, it’s still a low value item.

What about a mini-radar? Sticky, smaller range than the third eye, no explosion.

(Kiddspooky) #13

I like the heartbeat sensor, and I think it might be used more than people think. IN say BF3, keeping an eye on your map for clips si HUGE.

BUT… I think the HB sensor should be a sticky grenade. Currently you don’t have much control over it, you throw it and it lands where it lands and rolls.

It’s pick up range is small… I see it before it stops rolling, and I just leave. It doesn’t help the user at all really.

As a sticky nade, you would have so much more control… could throw it on walls or ceilings. It could still make a noise alerting people it’s there, but it wouldn’t be obvious.

(AKAMrSmiley) #14

I assume when I can see red triangles over people’s heads through walls that is heart beat sensor, in which case I’ve found it really useful… Although the dots on the minimap and the small area of effect from that haven’t had too huge of an effect the triangles have allowed me to peak out quickly and get quickscope headshots on people a little too easily.

(SockDog) #15

This. I find the heartbeat sensors to be a great alternative to deploying a radar that can’t be moved or is destroyed quickly. As a covie I can put two sensors down at a choke point or somewhere leading to it and provide the team with enemy indicators. We move on and I can redeploy. It takes seconds to do and once the minimap is improved I can see it being more valuable.

That’s not to say they couldn’t do with a few tweaks here and there though. :slight_smile:

(DarkangelUK) #16

[QUOTE=SockDog;413772]This. I find the heartbeat sensors to be a great alternative to deploying a radar that can’t be moved or is destroyed quickly. As a covie I can put two sensors down at a choke point or somewhere leading to it and provide the team with enemy indicators. We move on and I can redeploy. It takes seconds to do and once the minimap is improved I can see it being more valuable.

That’s not to say they couldn’t do with a few tweaks here and there though. :)[/QUOTE]

You can shoot the heartbeat sensors and they destroy quite easily, jussayin :wink:

(SockDog) #17

You have to find them first :slight_smile: On something like London Bridge they can be good for the defense and attackers to see the status of the datacores. Actually saying that I’ve not checked if you lose them if you throw one and it clips through a roof or something. I would assume you do and which of course you shouldn’t. :slight_smile:

Yes some improvements would be making them sticky, and also more obvious as to their range.

(Mustang) #18

I find the red arrows OP, should be mini-map icons only IMO.

(stealth6) #19

ye I’m also not sure I like the sensor as is. It’s like the spotting in BF, it’s like a built in wallhack/chams. So ye it’s useful, but a bit unfair?

(Bananas) #20

Agree that red arrows are sort of lame. You can pretty much set up an instant headshot for when they peak out.