I just wanna pound my head against wall when I read these forums.
On topic: classes dont work with snd and it doesn’t belong. Maybe later down the like snd mod can be created but the base game doesn’t need SND. The base game is the most important part I don’t understand why we keep trying to create and add when the problem lies in the core of the game. Stop focusing on adding what you want and focus on fixing what you have.
[QUOTE=SockDog;455952]You realise this is a computer game. A class is just a collection of variables, they’re not real people inside your screen who can only do one job. 
If classes don’t fit in SnD then remove or limit them. Likewise if respawns don’t work then switch them off. What is the problem with that, it’s a different game mode with different priorities. As long as you’re not requiring a string of dependancies to be changed it makes little difference to limit a side to 1 of each class, or have each side have a single generic class with weapon selection being a defining factor.
Honestly, this argument is like saying you can’t have a DM mode in a CTF game because CTF has two teams and DM involves killing all players.
So they poorly implement a game mode on a poorly implement game and nobody played it? Shock! Inclusion of other modes isn’t a guaranteed player base boost but it does broaden the market that the game can appeal too. I’m quite happy to admit that perhaps OBJ mode isn’t as interesting for me now as it once was, I enjoy the laid back randomness of L4D campaign mode for some online fun. If DB offered a similar mode*, implemented it properly rather tha just chucked in a ruleset that was broken and unbalanced, I’d be more inclined to play it, if they don’t then I’ll probably go elsewhere for my entertainment.
Essentially, remove everything that makes dirty bomb, dirtybomb and make it CoD? Do you see where I am coming from now?
That is not the argument at all.
The game isn’t that bad and yes it could have been implemented better. What I’m saying is that this has happened before and the results were not that great. BLR didn’t even have classes so implementing SnD would actually be easier for them. I think DB should separate itself from other games, not try to mimic them. Stellar gameplay with unique game modes is a good direction, I don’t see SnD doing much for DB.
[QUOTE=rand0m;455968]I just wanna pound my head against wall when I read these forums.
On topic: classes dont work with snd and it doesn’t belong. Maybe later down the like snd mod can be created but the base game doesn’t need SND. The base game is the most important part I don’t understand why we keep trying to create and add when the problem lies in the core of the game. Stop focusing on adding what you want and focus on fixing what you have.[/QUOTE]
No one said it needed to be done now or later, just discussing whether it would work or not. Don’t hurt yourself too much eh.
[QUOTE=rand0m;455968]I just wanna pound my head against wall when I read these forums.
On topic: classes dont work with snd and it doesn’t belong. Maybe later down the like snd mod can be created but the base game doesn’t need SND. The base game is the most important part I don’t understand why we keep trying to create and add when the problem lies in the core of the game. Stop focusing on adding what you want and focus on fixing what you have.[/QUOTE]
Classes are done in a lot of SnD… wtf.
[QUOTE=Anti;455759]When you folks are talking about S&D as a popular mode, I assume you’re talking about comp only right? Outside of CS the S&D modes of other games generally have very small numbers of players compared to TDM, C&H and CTF.
Not that that is not a reason to try a mode like this, I loved CoD1 S&D, I’m just wondering what you are basing the popularity on.[/QUOTE]
SnD is a very popular mode even in pubs. More popular pub mode than CTF and C&H in a lot of games I’ve played. Comp only drives pub success as well. LoL didn’t become a popular pub game on its own, it became popular with the rise of the comp side, just for example.
As for CoD, every iteration has had a lot of players in SnD. Its usually the second or third most populated playlist. Not sure how it is now since I haven’t logged on in a while but there has always been a large amount of ppl when I have played those games.
In fact, I’ve read a bunch of people asking whether its going to have a SnD. Most fps games have it for a reason, its fun as hell. If its made unique for this game it could be a big success. But if you just put in a tack on version who knows how it’ll end up. Probably only worth it if its done really well with added depth and carefully tuned systems to support it. I personally like my idea of buying upgrades and consumables each round
[QUOTE=strychzilla;455971]Essentially, remove everything that makes dirty bomb, dirtybomb and make it CoD? Do you see where I am coming from now?
[/QUOTE]
You don’t have to remove everything but it’s not impossible to remove or change things that just wouldn’t work in another game mode. You’re saddling the suggestion with an unreasonable restriction then using that as a basis for why it wouldn’t work.
If SD made a mode that was exactly like cod and pulled 40-50k concurrent players because of it what is the problem? They’d be rolling in cash and could develop the game and OBJ mode extensively. The alternative is they stick close to a single formula and if that doesn’t prove popular they’ll have less money and less resources to continue to develop the game. Seems people never want SD to diversify because they only want them to focus on one game mode, this seems very short sighted. It’s like they fear another mode being more popular would mean SD would just dump their OBJ mode and run for the cash. I don’t think that would happen.
[QUOTE=SockDog;455984]You don’t have to remove everything but it’s not impossible to remove or change things that just wouldn’t work in another game mode. You’re saddling the suggestion with an unreasonable restriction then using that as a basis for why it wouldn’t work.
If SD made a mode that was exactly like cod and pulled 40-50k concurrent players because of it what is the problem? They’d be rolling in cash and could develop the game and OBJ mode extensively. The alternative is they stick close to a single formula and if that doesn’t prove popular they’ll have less money and less resources to continue to develop the game. Seems people never want SD to diversify because they only want them to focus on one game mode, this seems very short sighted. It’s like they fear another mode being more popular would mean SD would just dump their OBJ mode and run for the cash. I don’t think that would happen.[/QUOTE]
I believe you’re missing it. If adding SnD to a game brought in 50 - 60K players every FPS would be doing it. The mode isn’t what brings the players it’s the gameplay and maps. If they add SnD and 50 - 60K players start playing I’m all for it. The game would have succeeded and that’s my primary interest. The reason CoD and CS have the amount of players that they do isn’t because of SnD. It’s because as much people don’t want to admit it the movement and gameplay in both games are perfect. There is no chunkiness, nothing awkward in either game. Sure it has a lot of spam and lame mechanics but in the end the gameplay is smoother than my glutes after a hot shave (in addition, both games have been around for a very long time so people are just familiar with it and stick with what they know.)
I wish SD ripped a page out of valve/IW/respawn’s book. They use engines that are great for FPS. They aren’t obsessed about having the most advanced tech in the game either (not saying SD is though). I’ve grown to dislike UE3, maybe even despise it, over the years.
I don’t disagree with that. Saying you couldn’t put SnD in DB because classes wouldn’t work is contradictory to the above, classes are part of the mode not the game. Of course the shooting and movement needs to be solid regardless of the mode. Yet the question here is whether the OBJ mode has the chops to be widely appealing, people aren’t going to play a mode they feel is boring just because the shooting and movement works well. There needs to be both and with OBJ being pretty intensive compared to other modes perhaps having some alternatives isn’t a bad idea.
Given the route respawn went I’m surprised SD didn’t pick up Source as well.
I believe UE3 is free and easy to use that’s why so many teams utilize it. I would much rather see idtech3 or 5. I’m sure a Dev could really dig in and let us know or I guess I could google. There probably more to it than just cost and ease of use.
[QUOTE=SockDog;456023]I don’t disagree with that. Saying you couldn’t put SnD in DB because classes wouldn’t work is contradictory to the above, classes are part of the mode not the game. Of course the shooting and movement needs to be solid regardless of the mode. Yet the question here is whether the OBJ mode has the chops to be widely appealing, people aren’t going to play a mode they feel is boring just because the shooting and movement works well. There needs to be both and with OBJ being pretty intensive compared to other modes perhaps having some alternatives isn’t a bad idea.
Given the route respawn went I’m surprised SD didn’t pick up Source as well.[/QUOTE]
It’s not contradictory. I still don’t believe SnD will bring 50-60K players to DB. =P If it SD thinks it will go for it! I’m still not sure how they would make it successful without losing what makes DB, DB. That could also be my narrow minded thinking that I’m trying to lose. 
UE3 is free for private/non-commercial I assume. But there are fees for a commercial license. I think the same goes for source, not 100% positive tho. I know for fact that unity has a free dev kit tho.
The two aren’t mutually exclusive, you can have a different mode with different rules that exists alongside others. If SnD (or some other mode) was implemented and proved popular then it wouldn’t mean that OBJ/SW mode couldn’t also exist. In fact the two would mutually benefit each other by making the game more economically viable as it would appeal to a wider audience. Look at L4D as an example, that offers multiple modes which keep the flavour of the narrative alive (uses existing assets), has the same core game mechanics (shooting and movement) but changes the rules for each (co-op, versus, survival, mutators etc). Maybe another way to look at it is that many games offer both a single player and multiplayer game, rarely are those two played in the same way but they do always share common aspects and also remove/add things that don’t suit the core purpose.
I agree there are unanswered factors here, SD would need and probably has access to data to actually make a more educated decision than my pluck from the air assumptions. But rather than us get tied up in that I’d like to think we could take what is on the table and say, hey do this, do that and come up with something different in strategy, maybe pace and perhaps depth which could compliment OBJ mode in DB.
Inferno has covered some point on SnD mode. I’ve mentioned in the past that a Survival/Horde co-op mode where the team has to complete objectives while being attacked by waves of AI enemies could not only offer a totally different spin on DB but also serve as a good training method for people to pick up core aspects of OBJ mode.
