Could SnD work for DB?

(SockDog) #21

Honestly, is this some kind of jealousy or elitism that produces these kinds of responses? I just feel it is always so petty to dismiss other modes like it’s going to steal something from the one you enjoy. Reality is that if other modes bring in other players then SD makes more money that they can devote to the whole game.

If the fear is that everyone will just play the other mode and not objective then I think some people need to come to terms with the fact that they like a mode that isn’t as popular.

+1 for SnD, co-op (Killing Floor or L4D style), hell anything that is going to hold people’s attention and keep overall player numbers up.

(Hundopercent) #22

[QUOTE=SockDog;455644]Honestly, is this some kind of jealousy or elitism that produces these kinds of responses? I just feel it is always so petty to dismiss other modes like it’s going to steal something from the one you enjoy. Reality is that if other modes bring in other players then SD makes more money that they can devote to the whole game.

If the fear is that everyone will just play the other mode and not objective then I think some people need to come to terms with the fact that they like a mode that isn’t as popular.

+1 for SnD, co-op (Killing Floor or L4D style), hell anything that is going to hold people’s attention and keep overall player numbers up.[/QUOTE]

Not at all. I figure its more of a how much time is it going to take to implement, how would it work with this game style, is it really going to attract more players, would you be better off making a unique game mode that works better with this style of game? Those are the questions I was asking myself when I read his post.

(Rex) #23

Skip this, as it has absolutely no place in SD games.

(Protekt1) #24

I remember in RTCW that the LMS mode they had was an enormous amount of fun. It was a very memorable experience for me.

I think people are wrong about CS playing demo just because its LMS. There is a heavy amount of strategy and metastrategy to the game. A good demo/snd mode would attract so many players to the game who would also probably enjoy the other modes as well. Even several fpses I’ve tried over the years that have downright ****ty mechanics, graphics, and controls and you name it… with a bomb plant mode and workable clan vs clan system have done very well. Well beyond what they should have done considering how objectively low standard they are. And imo DB is a pretty looking game… so if it had a SnD and several well designed maps it would do well and be worth the time to make it.

If they actually put the extra time into the make it unique from others as well as improving some core components to fit a class system… it would be gold. To fix revive, use a system like CS where you must buy revival tools and therefore you’ll have a weaker weapon. You could limit revive to a class or even scrap the class system and let you “design” your own class mid round during the market phase. You could limit the revive tool to only healing 1 - 2 times per round if necessary. Tools like turrets could be expensive and more of a high cost/medium utility tool that must be rebought next round if destroyed. Artillery will be good for clearing campers in open areas to help move the game along at certain points and to destroy turret encampments.

I think it could work very well if they made the right design decisions and made the maps well. I’m all for extra game modes personally.

(prophett) #25

A respawn mode like demolition could be interesting, although I will always favor stopwatch as the best mode.

My vote is no for s&d.

(INF3RN0) #26

Giving my perspective considering so far SnD has been mostly dismissed by people who just didn’t enjoy it in the past… I doubt I’d ever touch SnD, but that wasn’t the point of the OP. The SnD crowd is much larger than all of us combined. Having SnD draws in more players, players which may eventually transition into SW. It doesn’t hurt us and it only helps SD so… meh. After all no one would force you to play it, and SD would be promoting SW as their main competition mode.

It’s really difficult to formulate which classes would be appealing in SnD and what abilities might be too OP for SnD. I think some of the class dynamics might require some tweaks just for the mode considering the shift in the value of kills. Firstly all classes would need to be able to plant and defuse the bomb- plus hp regen completely removed.

Appealing mechanics for SnD;
-Medic’s revive/heal.
-Soldier’s flash/conc nades
-Eng Defensive turrets/mines
-Recon sniper/radar

I almost feel like the FOPS would be underutilized other than being used by people who liked the particular weapon. If your entire strategy was to just try to barrel into a bomb site and out aim your opponent really fast I guess it could work, but that doesn’t always work at high level play or with equally matched teams. I’d almost feel like an overall reduction in ammo would be necessary to make the FOPS strategical. It makes more sense to have the FOPS ammo role much more important in SnD considering it’s a single life mode. Also simply giving FOPS a smoke grenade instead of having a smoke screen air strike imo.

The other problem I see is the engy being too defensively based. The engineer for example would probably never be played on offense. Perhaps if he was able to resupply grenades at a moderate rate or something like that he would be much more appealing for the game mode.

It’s actually really strange… I almost imagine the class strategy decisions in an SnD mode being much more interesting than SW. The fact that your main focus is killing and gibbing players instantly makes the class tools that much more important. The punishment of dying in SnD makes strategy that much more vital. Imagine a 5v5 on de_dust and how SnD plays. I’d have a tough time deciding what classes to run and I definitely couldn’t see stacking one class consistently dominating the rest. I’d be willing to test an SnD mode just to see if it actually worked with classes, even if I didn’t really like it as much as SW.

(stealth6) #27

BF3 is a class based shooter with SnD. Squad rush it pretty much the same thing, just with 20 lives.

(Anti) #28

When you folks are talking about S&D as a popular mode, I assume you’re talking about comp only right? Outside of CS the S&D modes of other games generally have very small numbers of players compared to TDM, C&H and CTF.

Not that that is not a reason to try a mode like this, I loved CoD1 S&D, I’m just wondering what you are basing the popularity on.

(iwound) #29

deleted - oops i was thinking of domination.

(Kl3ppy) #30

O like the BF3 Conquest Mod. But I dont think that it would fit in DB. Maybe the little conquest rush mode could work: 3 flags in a small area and pure action.

(stealth6) #31

Rush = arming bombs
Conquest = Capping flags
Conquest assault = 3 flags in a small area :tongue:

Just thought I’d clear that confusion up.

(Kl3ppy) #32

[QUOTE=stealth6;455784]Rush = arming bombs
Conquest = Capping flags
Conquest assault = 3 flags in a small area :tongue:

Just thought I’d clear that confusion up.[/QUOTE]

Oh yeah sorry, forgot the name of the small conquest mod :smiley:

(Hundopercent) #33

[QUOTE=Anti;455759]When you folks are talking about S&D as a popular mode, I assume you’re talking about comp only right? Outside of CS the S&D modes of other games generally have very small numbers of players compared to TDM, C&H and CTF.

Not that that is not a reason to try a mode like this, I loved CoD1 S&D, I’m just wondering what you are basing the popularity on.[/QUOTE]

CTF would work well but the maps have to be solid. If the ttk was higher you could do the UT2k3 football mode :wink:

(Mustang) #34

If you like Bombing Run style games check-out Epigenesis

(MrFunkyFunk) #35

A long time ago I used to play CS, before, during and after I played other genres. People don’t necessarily stick to a genre if there fun to be have elsewhere.
That doesn’t make me a SnD afficionado or a hater. It really depends of the game’s own identity.

I don’t particularly wish for a SnD mode in DB, imo there are other modes that may not bring as much people as fast as it would but could be a lot more fun and integrate better with what’s already in the game.
For a snd I bet there would a lot of different variables in place for most of the guns & abilities (and other stuff as considerable longer gib times, classes limitation, …). We would be playing a “slightly” different game.
Not a definitive “no” but if the goal of some is to make players from CS & COD migrate to DB you’ll really need to come with the best matured idea you’ve ever come up with.

In the scenario we don’t get reworked docs map, I’d really prefer, over a SnD idea, to see a CTF/docs run mode with dedicated and well thought maps that focus mainly on that dynamic aspect & mindset of a class-based game.

(INF3RN0) #36

[QUOTE=Anti;455759]When you folks are talking about S&D as a popular mode, I assume you’re talking about comp only right? Outside of CS the S&D modes of other games generally have very small numbers of players compared to TDM, C&H and CTF.

Not that that is not a reason to try a mode like this, I loved CoD1 S&D, I’m just wondering what you are basing the popularity on.[/QUOTE]

Particularly in f2p SnD is a very popular mode. I don’t expect to see as many CoD/CS players as the run of the mill f2p.

(SockDog) #37

If the answer to the question is that it would make the game more successful then time to implement is not important.

Gamestyle, I’m not sure what you mean. The mode would dictate a lot of the style. You don’t need to shoehorn everything from OBJ into another mode. So really you’re talking about shooting and movement being the same but other things could be different.

Sure a unique game mode would be fine and I’d be sad to see just a vanilla copy of an existing mode too. Point being that another mode that is a step away from OBJ and a step towards something more accessible, with a different pace and familiarity to other games could prove popular.

Back to the big question, would it bring in more players? Hard to say, I’ll just throw out a question in response, does just having OBJ/SW (TDM needs some work) only ensure the game will be played for years to come? There is a lot more games out there competing for time than when W:ET came out, can SD afford to continue to sit back on OBJ mode like a golden egg? It didn’t work for ETQW, certainly not Brink.

(Hundopercent) #38

[QUOTE=SockDog;455925]If the answer to the question is that it would make the game more successful then time to implement is not important.

Gamestyle, I’m not sure what you mean. The mode would dictate a lot of the style. You don’t need to shoehorn everything from OBJ into another mode. So really you’re talking about shooting and movement being the same but other things could be different.

Sure a unique game mode would be fine and I’d be sad to see just a vanilla copy of an existing mode too. Point being that another mode that is a step away from OBJ and a step towards something more accessible, with a different pace and familiarity to other games could prove popular.

Back to the big question, would it bring in more players? Hard to say, I’ll just throw out a question in response, does just having OBJ/SW (TDM needs some work) only ensure the game will be played for years to come? There is a lot more games out there competing for time than when W:ET came out, can SD afford to continue to sit back on OBJ mode like a golden egg? It didn’t work for ETQW, certainly not Brink.[/QUOTE]

Game style as in respawns and classes. SnD with classes, how would that work? I only see 4 medic 1 Lt teams being viable. Unless you can’t heal/revive, then Sold/Sniper would only be viable. Unless you want to change the entire game for 1 mode which then I would say what is the point? Go play an SnD game.

BLR implemented SnD and it was terrible because the game wasn’t designed for it. What’s happening here is pretty exactly what happened in the BLR forums. Ultimately, the mode died out and most the players requesting it left to play another game. Anyway, that was my experience with it so take it for what it is. I would rather see a unique game mode created that works with DB’s current gameplay.

(SockDog) #39

You realise this is a computer game. A class is just a collection of variables, they’re not real people inside your screen who can only do one job. :slight_smile:

If classes don’t fit in SnD then remove or limit them. Likewise if respawns don’t work then switch them off. What is the problem with that, it’s a different game mode with different priorities. As long as you’re not requiring a string of dependancies to be changed it makes little difference to limit a side to 1 of each class, or have each side have a single generic class with weapon selection being a defining factor.

Honestly, this argument is like saying you can’t have a DM mode in a CTF game because CTF has two teams and DM involves killing all players.

BLR implemented SnD and it was terrible because the game wasn’t designed for it. What’s happening here is pretty exactly what happened in the BLR forums. Ultimately, the mode died out and most the players requesting it left to play another game. Anyway, that was my experience with it so take it for what it is. I would rather see a unique game mode created that works with DB’s current gameplay.

So they poorly implement a game mode on a poorly implement game and nobody played it? Shock! Inclusion of other modes isn’t a guaranteed player base boost but it does broaden the market that the game can appeal too. I’m quite happy to admit that perhaps OBJ mode isn’t as interesting for me now as it once was, I enjoy the laid back randomness of L4D campaign mode for some online fun. If DB offered a similar mode*, implemented it properly rather tha just chucked in a ruleset that was broken and unbalanced, I’d be more inclined to play it, if they don’t then I’ll probably go elsewhere for my entertainment.

  • I acknowledge they can’t be everything to everyone. This doesn’t mean they can’t stretch in two or three other directions.
(INF3RN0) #40

[QUOTE=strychzilla;455940]Game style as in respawns and classes. SnD with classes, how would that work? I only see 4 medic 1 Lt teams being viable. Unless you can’t heal/revive, then Sold/Sniper would only be viable. Unless you want to change the entire game for 1 mode which then I would say what is the point? Go play an SnD game.
[/QUOTE]

I don’t think that would be entirely true. If the maps were similar to something like de_dust2 for example, the choke points, defensive bias, and long wide open areas would require some extent of more complex strategy- especially if there was FF also. I see the soldier being really viable as well as a defensive engineer. I’d think the medic would add an interesting dynamic with heals and revives, but perhaps SnD would warrant gimping their ammo or having a long c/d on reviving. With the typical layout of SnD maps also I’d think the medic stack would be stuck chain-reviving considering they have one of the weakest ranges. Sniper is iffy as I think it would be played mainly for radar since effectively following up on a kill with a gib would be pretty tough. With medics in play though it would be all about gibs. I really think the maps would be the deciding factor on how the class play would pan out though, but it’s a tough topic tbh.