Could a higher Time To Kill (TTK) be a thing ?

[Szakalot]

Skyhammer’s M16 or whatever it is, definitely feels like one of the ET smg weapons. Similar rate of fire, similar damage, better accuracy : )

[Amerika]

[quote=“Amerika;7130”][quote=“immenseWalnut;6991”]What do you mean? It is really easy to quickly kill someone that is activating an objective considering they are locked in place. And when you consider the time it takes to activate them, the healing station is the only way we have (unless the locked mercs have other options) to keep that person alive, other than standing in front of them (I tended to do both playing as Aura) to block the shots aimed at them.

And of course I am talking about headshots, why would you aim at a static targets body?? But you could also factor in ability damage from AoEs etc if you want to. Without healing station, the only way to completely activate objectives is to wipe the other team first.

Healing station is fine as it is, in line with the current TTK.[/quote]

You seem like you are basing your entire TTK argument off of 100% headshot hit rate rather than what really happens for most players and even some of the best players. TTK is pretty low compared to something like CoD where you die from 3-4 bullets when hit just about anywhere center mass depending on which weapon you use. Bullets do not fire faster in DB and it requires 2-4 headshot’s from most guns in DB to kill and A LOT more if you hit the body. Obviously this changes based on which class you’re shooting at too. Of course the lower HP classes are a lot harder to hit when the person is playing right.[/quote]

The problem is the damage range (best vs worst scenario). If I round a corner and you are stood there with your back to me, I can kill you in 2 pistol shots by hitting you in the back of the head. You have 0 chance to respond and outplay me, because nearly 2/3 of your health will be gone in the first hit. By the time you realise you have taken damage, I will have landed another 1-2 shots to your head to finish you off.

Sure, face to face duels will take longer, but that is NOT how to gauge TTK. TTK is measured in damage vs health, and assumes shots are landed. If DB ever gets better hit feedback (i.e. an audio ding) then most people will realise some of the shots they fire are missing, and that isn’t a TTK issue (many people complain that it takes too long to kill someone, it really doesn’t, they are just missing too many shots). This is why I hate headshot multipliers in games like this. It is fine in a game like UT4 where constant movement is a necessity and only 1 weapon can headshot, but with game/map design that DB uses, headshot multipliers make the game worse (unless you are a crap player that loves camping/playing TDM in which case you will probably love it).

Given the map design, where it is very easy to move around players unless their teammates are very astute, you can often sneak up and murder other players very quickly with little worry of dying. If you get the first shot in, you get the kill, no matter how much better your opponent is than you are. That is not fun, unless you suck badly enough to need to be carried by low skill mechanics. If the TTK was bumped up, you would see many of the low TTK proponents complaining because they got the got the first few shots in and still lost their duel.

You are assuming the game is played in a vacuum. You also assume people don’t wear headphones, aren’t constantly moving and are oblivious to being shot. If I come up from behind somebody I expect to have a significant advantage IF I land a few head shots right off the bat. But in reality the best of players will be moving very fast, players they play against won’t be standing still and I’d wager even the very best players have a hard time hitting 40% of their shots and probably only 30% of those will be headshots.

You can have an opinion that TTK is too low but I just won’t see your argument as valid as I’m applying my logic to the game and how it’s played where you’re simply talking about DPS rather than TTK and assuming the game is played in a vacuum.

[Kroad1]

I’d wager even the very best players have a hard time hitting 40% of their shots and probably only 30% of those will be headshots.

disagree with this, I feel like 40% is easily reachable, 50% is probably what the top players will have (had 41% by end of last weekend beta even though i hadnt played any fps games in around 2 weeks), and I feel like 50%hs accuracy could be manageable with a bit of practice

another thing to remember is that accuracy will vary based on the gun you’re using. My accuracy estimation is based on the k121, it will be easier to have higher acc (especially hs acc) using smgs due to the lack of spread and higher rof

there is however one godlike player, suncommander, who has 70% accuracy with his most used weapon

[einstyle]

[quote=“Kroad;7331”]there is however one godlike player, suncommander, who has 70% accuracy with his most used weapon
http://i.gyazo.com/a6a5346f52cf37c5be50350bb6463631.png[/quote]
…that’s a knife

[immenseWalnut]

[quote=“Amerika;7326”][quote=“immenseWalnut;7195”]

[quote=“Amerika;7130”][quote=“immenseWalnut;6991”]What do you mean? It is really easy to quickly kill someone that is activating an objective considering they are locked in place. And when you consider the time it takes to activate them, the healing station is the only way we have (unless the locked mercs have other options) to keep that person alive, other than standing in front of them (I tended to do both playing as Aura) to block the shots aimed at them.

And of course I am talking about headshots, why would you aim at a static targets body?? But you could also factor in ability damage from AoEs etc if you want to. Without healing station, the only way to completely activate objectives is to wipe the other team first.

Healing station is fine as it is, in line with the current TTK.[/quote]

You seem like you are basing your entire TTK argument off of 100% headshot hit rate rather than what really happens for most players and even some of the best players. TTK is pretty low compared to something like CoD where you die from 3-4 bullets when hit just about anywhere center mass depending on which weapon you use. Bullets do not fire faster in DB and it requires 2-4 headshot’s from most guns in DB to kill and A LOT more if you hit the body. Obviously this changes based on which class you’re shooting at too. Of course the lower HP classes are a lot harder to hit when the person is playing right.[/quote]

The problem is the damage range (best vs worst scenario). If I round a corner and you are stood there with your back to me, I can kill you in 2 pistol shots by hitting you in the back of the head. You have 0 chance to respond and outplay me, because nearly 2/3 of your health will be gone in the first hit. By the time you realise you have taken damage, I will have landed another 1-2 shots to your head to finish you off.

Sure, face to face duels will take longer, but that is NOT how to gauge TTK. TTK is measured in damage vs health, and assumes shots are landed. If DB ever gets better hit feedback (i.e. an audio ding) then most people will realise some of the shots they fire are missing, and that isn’t a TTK issue (many people complain that it takes too long to kill someone, it really doesn’t, they are just missing too many shots). This is why I hate headshot multipliers in games like this. It is fine in a game like UT4 where constant movement is a necessity and only 1 weapon can headshot, but with game/map design that DB uses, headshot multipliers make the game worse (unless you are a crap player that loves camping/playing TDM in which case you will probably love it).

Given the map design, where it is very easy to move around players unless their teammates are very astute, you can often sneak up and murder other players very quickly with little worry of dying. If you get the first shot in, you get the kill, no matter how much better your opponent is than you are. That is not fun, unless you suck badly enough to need to be carried by low skill mechanics. If the TTK was bumped up, you would see many of the low TTK proponents complaining because they got the got the first few shots in and still lost their duel.

[/quote]

If I come up from behind somebody I expect to have a significant advantage IF I land a few head shots right off the bat. [/quote]

Well, this is where we differ greatly then. I expect to have the advantage if I get the first shots in, but I would never want a significant advantage, there is no satisfaction in that at all.

I would rather still have to outplay the person (and die if they were better than me) rather than earn a cheap kill because the TTK is designed to make it easy for bad players to score kills without really earning it. All that does is encourage bad players to deliberately play in a way that enhances their ability to obtain kills instead of focusing on the match (which is often detrimental to the rest of their team).

Outplaying someone = earning it, sneaking up on them doesn’t take any skill, so it shouldn’t be deserving of a kill unless you beat them after they have a chance to respond.

In any case, there is little more I can say about this, I have stated my opinion. It doesn’t really matter in the long run, as I don’t expect this game will last very long. The skill floor for aiming, the inevitable paywall, the lack of depth in the mercs and the monotony of the maps will gradually turn players away from the game leaving only a small core of hardcore fans that will truly enjoy it.

[Amerika]

[quote=“immenseWalnut;7333”][quote=“Amerika;7326”][quote=“immenseWalnut;7195”]

[quote=“Amerika;7130”][quote=“immenseWalnut;6991”]What do you mean? It is really easy to quickly kill someone that is activating an objective considering they are locked in place. And when you consider the time it takes to activate them, the healing station is the only way we have (unless the locked mercs have other options) to keep that person alive, other than standing in front of them (I tended to do both playing as Aura) to block the shots aimed at them.

And of course I am talking about headshots, why would you aim at a static targets body?? But you could also factor in ability damage from AoEs etc if you want to. Without healing station, the only way to completely activate objectives is to wipe the other team first.

Healing station is fine as it is, in line with the current TTK.[/quote]

You seem like you are basing your entire TTK argument off of 100% headshot hit rate rather than what really happens for most players and even some of the best players. TTK is pretty low compared to something like CoD where you die from 3-4 bullets when hit just about anywhere center mass depending on which weapon you use. Bullets do not fire faster in DB and it requires 2-4 headshot’s from most guns in DB to kill and A LOT more if you hit the body. Obviously this changes based on which class you’re shooting at too. Of course the lower HP classes are a lot harder to hit when the person is playing right.[/quote]

The problem is the damage range (best vs worst scenario). If I round a corner and you are stood there with your back to me, I can kill you in 2 pistol shots by hitting you in the back of the head. You have 0 chance to respond and outplay me, because nearly 2/3 of your health will be gone in the first hit. By the time you realise you have taken damage, I will have landed another 1-2 shots to your head to finish you off.

Sure, face to face duels will take longer, but that is NOT how to gauge TTK. TTK is measured in damage vs health, and assumes shots are landed. If DB ever gets better hit feedback (i.e. an audio ding) then most people will realise some of the shots they fire are missing, and that isn’t a TTK issue (many people complain that it takes too long to kill someone, it really doesn’t, they are just missing too many shots). This is why I hate headshot multipliers in games like this. It is fine in a game like UT4 where constant movement is a necessity and only 1 weapon can headshot, but with game/map design that DB uses, headshot multipliers make the game worse (unless you are a crap player that loves camping/playing TDM in which case you will probably love it).

Given the map design, where it is very easy to move around players unless their teammates are very astute, you can often sneak up and murder other players very quickly with little worry of dying. If you get the first shot in, you get the kill, no matter how much better your opponent is than you are. That is not fun, unless you suck badly enough to need to be carried by low skill mechanics. If the TTK was bumped up, you would see many of the low TTK proponents complaining because they got the got the first few shots in and still lost their duel.

[/quote]

If I come up from behind somebody I expect to have a significant advantage IF I land a few head shots right off the bat. [/quote]

Well, this is where we differ greatly then. I expect to have the advantage if I get the first shots in, but I would never want a significant advantage, there is no satisfaction in that at all.

I would rather still have to outplay the person (and die if they were better than me) rather than earn a cheap kill because the TTK is designed to make it easy for bad players to score kills without really earning it. All that does is encourage bad players to deliberately play in a way that enhances their ability to obtain kills instead of focusing on the match (which is often detrimental to the rest of their team).

Outplaying someone = earning it, sneaking up on them doesn’t take any skill, so it shouldn’t be deserving of a kill unless you beat them after they have a chance to respond.

In any case, there is little more I can say about this, I have stated my opinion. It doesn’t really matter in the long run, as I don’t expect this game will last very long. The skill floor for aiming, the inevitable paywall, the lack of depth in the mercs and the monotony of the maps will gradually turn players away from the game leaving only a small core of hardcore fans that will truly enjoy it.

[/quote]

Well aren’t you just a peach now. You don’t believe the game will conform to your exact wishes so you crap on it, the devs and the people who have worked hard to give critical feedback. That’s really nice of you.

You simply want everyone to be a bullet sponge so you can stand there unloading like that famous scene in Rambo for 5-10 seconds. It’s cool that you want that. I just won’t agree at all. I don’t want every fight turn into an “oh crap i’m below 50% HP time to run forever” fight due to the bullet sponge nature of your suggestions and it just doesn’t sit well. This games TTK is much higher than CoD’s, much higher than BF’s and is in line with games like wolf/ET and SoF2.

[appreciativeBuster]

I find we die very fast.
I feel mixed on this. Enjoyable and fits the game, it suits it.

For you ET players
It’s not the same as doing a few headshots and running away with med packs.

Either you go in with forethought and frag, take cover, escape, use abilities
but most of the times you won’t be able to do the same scenario as ET medic. The survivability just simply isn’t the same, this a great game nontheless with great setups and possibilities for medics/teamwork.

I agree with Healing station being that powerful simply because of TTK but that same TTK promotes tactical gameplay. Face to face duels may be a tad short. Strafe, heal, cooperate and shoot headies s0n

“Outplaying someone = earning it, sneaking up on them doesn’t take any skill, so it shouldn’t be deserving of a kill unless you beat them after they have a chance to respond.”
Covert ops outsmarting someone begs to differ.

[Szakalot]

what paywall are we talking about?

Even if an Aura loadout with 25% faster healing rate and radius, etc. is only obtainable with hard cash, it will hardly be a wall. At most something like this

I would encourage everyone basing their opinions on the last two beta builds to acknowledge that we have played DB for months before, and simply do not encounter the things you mention. Sneaking up on someone should give you an advantage, and there is definitely a skill to sneaking up on good players in 5v5 matchmaking (where it will matter). And yet, that advantage will never guarantee you kills like in many other FPSes out there.

[immenseWalnut]

[quote=“Amerika;7335”][quote=“immenseWalnut;7333”][quote=“Amerika;7326”][quote=“immenseWalnut;7195”]

[quote=“Amerika;7130”][quote=“immenseWalnut;6991”]What do you mean? It is really easy to quickly kill someone that is activating an objective considering they are locked in place. And when you consider the time it takes to activate them, the healing station is the only way we have (unless the locked mercs have other options) to keep that person alive, other than standing in front of them (I tended to do both playing as Aura) to block the shots aimed at them.

And of course I am talking about headshots, why would you aim at a static targets body?? But you could also factor in ability damage from AoEs etc if you want to. Without healing station, the only way to completely activate objectives is to wipe the other team first.

Healing station is fine as it is, in line with the current TTK.[/quote]

You seem like you are basing your entire TTK argument off of 100% headshot hit rate rather than what really happens for most players and even some of the best players. TTK is pretty low compared to something like CoD where you die from 3-4 bullets when hit just about anywhere center mass depending on which weapon you use. Bullets do not fire faster in DB and it requires 2-4 headshot’s from most guns in DB to kill and A LOT more if you hit the body. Obviously this changes based on which class you’re shooting at too. Of course the lower HP classes are a lot harder to hit when the person is playing right.[/quote]

The problem is the damage range (best vs worst scenario). If I round a corner and you are stood there with your back to me, I can kill you in 2 pistol shots by hitting you in the back of the head. You have 0 chance to respond and outplay me, because nearly 2/3 of your health will be gone in the first hit. By the time you realise you have taken damage, I will have landed another 1-2 shots to your head to finish you off.

Sure, face to face duels will take longer, but that is NOT how to gauge TTK. TTK is measured in damage vs health, and assumes shots are landed. If DB ever gets better hit feedback (i.e. an audio ding) then most people will realise some of the shots they fire are missing, and that isn’t a TTK issue (many people complain that it takes too long to kill someone, it really doesn’t, they are just missing too many shots). This is why I hate headshot multipliers in games like this. It is fine in a game like UT4 where constant movement is a necessity and only 1 weapon can headshot, but with game/map design that DB uses, headshot multipliers make the game worse (unless you are a crap player that loves camping/playing TDM in which case you will probably love it).

Given the map design, where it is very easy to move around players unless their teammates are very astute, you can often sneak up and murder other players very quickly with little worry of dying. If you get the first shot in, you get the kill, no matter how much better your opponent is than you are. That is not fun, unless you suck badly enough to need to be carried by low skill mechanics. If the TTK was bumped up, you would see many of the low TTK proponents complaining because they got the got the first few shots in and still lost their duel.

[/quote]

If I come up from behind somebody I expect to have a significant advantage IF I land a few head shots right off the bat. [/quote]

Well, this is where we differ greatly then. I expect to have the advantage if I get the first shots in, but I would never want a significant advantage, there is no satisfaction in that at all.

I would rather still have to outplay the person (and die if they were better than me) rather than earn a cheap kill because the TTK is designed to make it easy for bad players to score kills without really earning it. All that does is encourage bad players to deliberately play in a way that enhances their ability to obtain kills instead of focusing on the match (which is often detrimental to the rest of their team).

Outplaying someone = earning it, sneaking up on them doesn’t take any skill, so it shouldn’t be deserving of a kill unless you beat them after they have a chance to respond.

In any case, there is little more I can say about this, I have stated my opinion. It doesn’t really matter in the long run, as I don’t expect this game will last very long. The skill floor for aiming, the inevitable paywall, the lack of depth in the mercs and the monotony of the maps will gradually turn players away from the game leaving only a small core of hardcore fans that will truly enjoy it.

[/quote]

Well aren’t you just a peach now. You don’t believe the game will conform to your exact wishes so you crap on it, the devs and the people who have worked hard to give critical feedback. That’s really nice of you.[/quote]

How silly of me, I forgot we are only allowed to give feedback when we like the game. Anyone that doesn’t isn’t welcome.

My opinion is my own, as is yours, if you don’t like it, deal with it.

[Amerika]

[quote=“immenseWalnut;7343”][quote=“Amerika;7335”][quote=“immenseWalnut;7333”][quote=“Amerika;7326”][quote=“immenseWalnut;7195”]

[quote=“Amerika;7130”][quote=“immenseWalnut;6991”]What do you mean? It is really easy to quickly kill someone that is activating an objective considering they are locked in place. And when you consider the time it takes to activate them, the healing station is the only way we have (unless the locked mercs have other options) to keep that person alive, other than standing in front of them (I tended to do both playing as Aura) to block the shots aimed at them.

And of course I am talking about headshots, why would you aim at a static targets body?? But you could also factor in ability damage from AoEs etc if you want to. Without healing station, the only way to completely activate objectives is to wipe the other team first.

Healing station is fine as it is, in line with the current TTK.[/quote]

You seem like you are basing your entire TTK argument off of 100% headshot hit rate rather than what really happens for most players and even some of the best players. TTK is pretty low compared to something like CoD where you die from 3-4 bullets when hit just about anywhere center mass depending on which weapon you use. Bullets do not fire faster in DB and it requires 2-4 headshot’s from most guns in DB to kill and A LOT more if you hit the body. Obviously this changes based on which class you’re shooting at too. Of course the lower HP classes are a lot harder to hit when the person is playing right.[/quote]

The problem is the damage range (best vs worst scenario). If I round a corner and you are stood there with your back to me, I can kill you in 2 pistol shots by hitting you in the back of the head. You have 0 chance to respond and outplay me, because nearly 2/3 of your health will be gone in the first hit. By the time you realise you have taken damage, I will have landed another 1-2 shots to your head to finish you off.

Sure, face to face duels will take longer, but that is NOT how to gauge TTK. TTK is measured in damage vs health, and assumes shots are landed. If DB ever gets better hit feedback (i.e. an audio ding) then most people will realise some of the shots they fire are missing, and that isn’t a TTK issue (many people complain that it takes too long to kill someone, it really doesn’t, they are just missing too many shots). This is why I hate headshot multipliers in games like this. It is fine in a game like UT4 where constant movement is a necessity and only 1 weapon can headshot, but with game/map design that DB uses, headshot multipliers make the game worse (unless you are a crap player that loves camping/playing TDM in which case you will probably love it).

Given the map design, where it is very easy to move around players unless their teammates are very astute, you can often sneak up and murder other players very quickly with little worry of dying. If you get the first shot in, you get the kill, no matter how much better your opponent is than you are. That is not fun, unless you suck badly enough to need to be carried by low skill mechanics. If the TTK was bumped up, you would see many of the low TTK proponents complaining because they got the got the first few shots in and still lost their duel.

[/quote]

If I come up from behind somebody I expect to have a significant advantage IF I land a few head shots right off the bat. [/quote]

Well, this is where we differ greatly then. I expect to have the advantage if I get the first shots in, but I would never want a significant advantage, there is no satisfaction in that at all.

I would rather still have to outplay the person (and die if they were better than me) rather than earn a cheap kill because the TTK is designed to make it easy for bad players to score kills without really earning it. All that does is encourage bad players to deliberately play in a way that enhances their ability to obtain kills instead of focusing on the match (which is often detrimental to the rest of their team).

Outplaying someone = earning it, sneaking up on them doesn’t take any skill, so it shouldn’t be deserving of a kill unless you beat them after they have a chance to respond.

In any case, there is little more I can say about this, I have stated my opinion. It doesn’t really matter in the long run, as I don’t expect this game will last very long. The skill floor for aiming, the inevitable paywall, the lack of depth in the mercs and the monotony of the maps will gradually turn players away from the game leaving only a small core of hardcore fans that will truly enjoy it.

[/quote]

Well aren’t you just a peach now. You don’t believe the game will conform to your exact wishes so you crap on it, the devs and the people who have worked hard to give critical feedback. That’s really nice of you.[/quote]

How silly of me, I forgot we are only allowed to give feedback when we like the game. Anyone that doesn’t isn’t welcome.

My opinion is my own, as is yours, if you don’t like it, deal with it.

[/quote]

"In any case, there is little more I can say about this, I have stated my opinion. It doesn’t really matter in the long run, as I don’t expect this game will last very long. The skill floor for aiming, the inevitable paywall, the lack of depth in the mercs and the monotony of the maps will gradually turn players away from the game leaving only a small core of hardcore fans that will truly enjoy it. "

That isn’t giving feedback. That is being a child who isn’t getting their way and you’re wanting to burn bridges because of it. Instead of having an intelligent debate you are resorting to flaming. You can have that opinion all you want but stating it in that manner is childish and not needed.

I’ve spoken my mind. I think this thread has value and I don’t want to see it locked.

[intenseRuby]

Outplaying someone = earning it, sneaking up on them doesn’t take any skill, so it shouldn’t be deserving of a kill unless you beat them after they have a chance to respond.

In any case, there is little more I can say about this, I have stated my opinion. It doesn’t really matter in the long run, as I don’t expect this game will last very long. The skill floor for aiming, the inevitable paywall, the lack of depth in the mercs and the monotony of the maps will gradually turn players away from the game leaving only a small core of hardcore fans that will truly enjoy it.

Your desire for a high TTK directly contradicts your other want for a more team focused game, as you mentioned in the other thread. High TTK simply cannot co-exist with tactical gameplay. The whole point of out maneuvering your opponent and pushing flanks is to have an advantage when you get into a gun fight. If you want the TTK to be so high that the advantage gained by getting a drop on someone is completely negated, tactical play will go completely unrewarded and underutilized. The meta will simply be “rush out into the open and try to out-aim everyone”

[Nail]

you want “horourable” combat, tale up fencing
sneaking up on someone in this game takes immense skill unless they’re standing still and everyone will kill you if you’re stationary

[RuleofBooKz]

Skyhammer’s M16 or whatever it is, definitely feels like one of the ET smg weapons. Similar rate of fire, similar damage, better accuracy : )

yeah but he has such a fat arse ;(

[B_Montiel]

Reading and discussing a few recent threads, I feel like there’s a gap between some parts of the building community. Some people expect dirty bomb to be an easy access game with easy nature game mechanics (a.k.a. casual gaming) and some others who believe it is going to be the true and legitimate son of W:ET and do think there’s depth and intricacy in dirty bomb (which, by the way, has been a target for splash damage with ET:QW and Brink they both failed on that IMO).
To me, this thread discussing about TTK self-built on the two recent stress test where the 3/4 (purely created fraction, I don’t really know how many keys were sent) of newcomers faced the 1/4 of players already used to the past beta-builds (where most of the players were there for hardcore fragging time). Once the game will be turned on for good, due to the different game modes and possibly the matchmaking, the game will sort the players almost automatically. And both sides will notice that TTK will higher by itself.

[Szakalot]

I honestly think ETQW had more depth and more intricacy than W:ET ever could. The main problem was lack of polish: frustrating netcode, 30fps lock for characters, lack of pro-mod in the first crucial half-year from release.

Even with the gameplay limiting (but necessary) ETpromod, the amount of strats you had to prepare to effectively combat good defenses was staggering. Icarus drop to disable a tank - take out the tank - lock down the APC - clear out mines - kill defense - plant - defend plant was just the simplest one

[sageCarrot]

hi pubnubs, just coming in to drop a word, take if as you will

a very wise man once told me to use extremes when you’re trying to find a middle ground

let’s say ttk was 1 shot to kill. the person who sees the other person first, wins. this could be due to having superior positioning, better twitch reactions, or simply being a campy player.

let’s say ttk was like 5 seconds (making the average gunfight ~7sec). this is going to drastically reduce the effectiveness of someone’s twitch aim (however requiring more trace aim), as well as making duels more meaningless since the chances to win 2v1s are lower and the chances of them happening are higher

it’s in a good spot right now, it rewards good twitch skills, trace aim, and it’s possible to 2v1 if you have really good aim and positioning

IF anything, i’d like to see the ttk SLIGHTLY LOWERED to reduce the effectiveness of 1hko snipers/grenades…raising it is really not a good choice…if your argument is that it makes the game less teamwork dependent (which is true since the need to force 2v1 gunfights will increase), my argument is that 99 out of 100 of you won’t play at that level of chemsitry where you will be able to force 2v1 gunfights in random pubs and that it’s my personal opinion that in a first person shooter, you should be more rewarded for your aim and gamesense rather than teamwork, and even right now i’m not sure if that’s true

[bubblesKeyboard]

[quote=“einstyle;7332”][quote=“Kroad;7331”]there is however one godlike player, suncommander, who has 70% accuracy with his most used weapon
http://i.gyazo.com/a6a5346f52cf37c5be50350bb6463631.png[/quote]
…that’s a knife[/quote]

best observation 2015

[bubblesKeyboard]

[quote=“immenseWalnut;7333”][quote=“Amerika;7326”][quote=“immenseWalnut;7195”]

[quote=“Amerika;7130”][quote=“immenseWalnut;6991”]What do you mean? It is really easy to quickly kill someone that is activating an objective considering they are locked in place. And when you consider the time it takes to activate them, the healing station is the only way we have (unless the locked mercs have other options) to keep that person alive, other than standing in front of them (I tended to do both playing as Aura) to block the shots aimed at them.

And of course I am talking about headshots, why would you aim at a static targets body?? But you could also factor in ability damage from AoEs etc if you want to. Without healing station, the only way to completely activate objectives is to wipe the other team first.

Healing station is fine as it is, in line with the current TTK.[/quote]

You seem like you are basing your entire TTK argument off of 100% headshot hit rate rather than what really happens for most players and even some of the best players. TTK is pretty low compared to something like CoD where you die from 3-4 bullets when hit just about anywhere center mass depending on which weapon you use. Bullets do not fire faster in DB and it requires 2-4 headshot’s from most guns in DB to kill and A LOT more if you hit the body. Obviously this changes based on which class you’re shooting at too. Of course the lower HP classes are a lot harder to hit when the person is playing right.[/quote]

The problem is the damage range (best vs worst scenario). If I round a corner and you are stood there with your back to me, I can kill you in 2 pistol shots by hitting you in the back of the head. You have 0 chance to respond and outplay me, because nearly 2/3 of your health will be gone in the first hit. By the time you realise you have taken damage, I will have landed another 1-2 shots to your head to finish you off.

Sure, face to face duels will take longer, but that is NOT how to gauge TTK. TTK is measured in damage vs health, and assumes shots are landed. If DB ever gets better hit feedback (i.e. an audio ding) then most people will realise some of the shots they fire are missing, and that isn’t a TTK issue (many people complain that it takes too long to kill someone, it really doesn’t, they are just missing too many shots). This is why I hate headshot multipliers in games like this. It is fine in a game like UT4 where constant movement is a necessity and only 1 weapon can headshot, but with game/map design that DB uses, headshot multipliers make the game worse (unless you are a crap player that loves camping/playing TDM in which case you will probably love it).

Given the map design, where it is very easy to move around players unless their teammates are very astute, you can often sneak up and murder other players very quickly with little worry of dying. If you get the first shot in, you get the kill, no matter how much better your opponent is than you are. That is not fun, unless you suck badly enough to need to be carried by low skill mechanics. If the TTK was bumped up, you would see many of the low TTK proponents complaining because they got the got the first few shots in and still lost their duel.

[/quote]

If I come up from behind somebody I expect to have a significant advantage IF I land a few head shots right off the bat. [/quote]

Well, this is where we differ greatly then. I expect to have the advantage if I get the first shots in, but I would never want a significant advantage, there is no satisfaction in that at all.

I would rather still have to outplay the person (and die if they were better than me) rather than earn a cheap kill because the TTK is designed to make it easy for bad players to score kills without really earning it. All that does is encourage bad players to deliberately play in a way that enhances their ability to obtain kills instead of focusing on the match (which is often detrimental to the rest of their team).

Outplaying someone = earning it, sneaking up on them doesn’t take any skill, so it shouldn’t be deserving of a kill unless you beat them after they have a chance to respond.

In any case, there is little more I can say about this, I have stated my opinion. It doesn’t really matter in the long run, as I don’t expect this game will last very long. The skill floor for aiming, the inevitable paywall, the lack of depth in the mercs and the monotony of the maps will gradually turn players away from the game leaving only a small core of hardcore fans that will truly enjoy it.

[/quote]

If you’re behind someone then you’ve outmaneuvered them - that is outplaying someone in a nutshell. If you just run into someone’s back, they’ve made a mistake and consequences are in order.

When I run proxy my goal is to shoot people in the back, otherwise I will get stomped on if I run head on. Finding someone and going out of my way to flank them is how I outplay them.

It’s all dependent on the merc however. If you run up against a medic or a technician with their back faced to you, they shouldn’t have much of a fighting chance if you get the first few bullets off. However if it’s a slayer merc they should have the opportunity but the person who gets the first few shots off should win the fight.

[bubblesKeyboard]

[quote=“appreciativeBuster;7337”]I find we die very fast.
I feel mixed on this. Enjoyable and fits the game, it suits it.

[/quote]

It all depends on your merc, your situation, and how you approach it. If you die very fast you’ve failed

[bubblesKeyboard]

[quote=“sageCarrot;7392”]hi pubnubs, just coming in to drop a word, take if as you will

a very wise man once told me to use extremes when you’re trying to find a middle ground

let’s say ttk was 1 shot to kill. the person who sees the other person first, wins. this could be due to having superior positioning, better twitch reactions, or simply being a campy player.

let’s say ttk was like 5 seconds (making the average gunfight ~7sec). this is going to drastically reduce the effectiveness of someone’s twitch aim (however requiring more trace aim), as well as making duels more meaningless since the chances to win 2v1s are lower and the chances of them happening are higher

it’s in a good spot right now, it rewards good twitch skills, trace aim, and it’s possible to 2v1 if you have really good aim and positioning

IF anything, i’d like to see the ttk SLIGHTLY LOWERED to reduce the effectiveness of 1hko snipers/grenades…raising it is really not a good choice…if your argument is that it makes the game less teamwork dependent (which is true since the need to force 2v1 gunfights will increase), my argument is that 99 out of 100 of you won’t play at that level of chemsitry where you will be able to force 2v1 gunfights in random pubs and that it’s my personal opinion that in a first person shooter, you should be more rewarded for your aim and gamesense rather than teamwork, and even right now i’m not sure if that’s true[/quote]

If you want it lowered for that reason you can simply nerf the weapon/buff explosive durability. However from what I’ve seen snipers can only 1 hit slayers with headshots, which is how snipers should be. No other merc is built for combat and should be taken down with one hit, though I’m not sure that is the case atm