[quote=“Eox;6217”][quote=“Kroad;6211”]the ttk in this game is low, no doubt about it, especially when a class like fragger is shooting at a low health class like proxy
however, good movement raises it a lot (it’s not even hard, just adad)
a friend sent me this video www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JIX4K5SWfs&feature=youtu.be in order to complain about the ttk i was getting on him, yet you can see that he was running in straight lines both times he died.
It’s very easy to hit every single shot on people running in straight lines. You have a proxy avatar, so I’ll assume you play proxy. You have a small hitbox and the best movement in the game so make use of it. Walljump as much as possible, adad when you’re out in the open, you’ll find yourself surviving a lot longer.[/quote]
I already know everything about that. I am really used to fast paced shooters, don’t worry I know how Proxy works.
Don’t question yourself on my own skill level. Don’t base yourself on the fact that I may not be good at this game. Base yourself on your own opinion. If TTK is fine for you, it’s okay. Just say it, argument a bit about why it should stay like that, and it’s perfectly fine. I can totally respect an opinion. Of course I may argue around about it, but that’s okay, we’re discussing.[/quote]
Lol @ players that run straight into the face of Fragger with Proxy and then complain about low ttk
[quote=“Eox;6123”][quote=“ToonBE;6114”]I mainly think you get outplayed. If the game goes in open beta more players of equal skill will be playing. Right now the skill level is relatively high… If you were to play against players of your own skill I think you would feel different.
Proxy is a character with low hp and needs some amount of skill to be used well. I suggest you play fragger to learn the game more. 150hp and a strong machine gun + nades.
Have fun;)[/quote]
I already tried fragger, it didn’t changed too much, and I also didn’t liked playing him at all. Also, I really don’t think I am that bad.
The fact that I can one shot some characters without even aiming for the head with a shotgun is just more or less that proof of what I am talking about. I don’t think I should get free one shots like that. And it’s also really frustrating when it happens.
I’ll also take the map underground for exemple. When you play as an attacker, and the people in front of you are a bit organized and without an abysmal aim, you just can’t move. You’re trapped at your spawn, and what is killing you is not really shotguns. Maybe it’s a design flaw, but when only seven bullets is enough to kill a 120hp character I really feel like something is wrong.
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If you switch from 80hp to 150hp and you find your time to die the same, you’re doing it wrong lol
On the paper maybe, but in game you can perfectly miss a shotgun blow if your opponent decide to dodge or something. Flicking your mouse is not 100% accurate heh. I mean, you don’t magically get an aimbot if you decide to play shotgun and flick your mouse to something. It’ll depend of your skill with it. Actually everything will depend your skill.
I’ll take TF2 as an exemple. Shotguns are really common, yet it’s not because you play with a shotgun that you’ll be able to take out something that straffes like a madcap just by flicking your mouse. You don’t flick your mouse at random and get a kill, skill still matters.
I’ll take another exemple. I used to play a game named S4 League (today it’s a doomed game, don’t try it). It was a game with a complete and kinda crazy movement system with dodges, big ass walljumps and an SP bar. Yet, it was far more easier to use a rapid fire weapon that a shotgun style weapon due to how fast paced the game is.
I really think that an improved movement system won’t only make rapid fire weapon harder to use. Everything will still highly depend of the player. Of course it may not be enough alone. But it’ll matter for sure.
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Its all flicking and prediction. I don’t know what games you used to play but I played Quake and UT4 and if you tried tracking someone with a shotgun there’s no way you’ll get a kill, not to mention the rail.
Flicking is accurate if you practice with it. I’m starting to play CS:GO and that game is all about adjustment and flickshots. If you think flicking isn’t accurate, watch some of screaM’s videos.
[quote=“Eox;6126”][quote=“neg0ne;6125”]i also think TTK is alright.
there is a learning curve - yes, but its not too hard.
of course its annoying to run into battle and get instakilled by a sniper or a cornering shootgunner … but hey, if there where only happy-lovely moments it would be boring. instakills dont happen on a regular basis … if so im doing something wrong.
although i like the idea of sliding.
if playing proxy : never stand still. move move move … you have zero health but move faster in compensation. moving is your superpower.[/quote]
That’s what I am doing. I come from games like Warframe or Xonotic, movement is my middle name. Let’s not focus on my own playstyle, let’s just think in general.
About more movement manoeuvers. That’s just a marvellous way to raise TTK without even touching the guns or mercs stats. If you allow players to dodge bullets (or at least try to) by rolling or sliding, enemies may have an harder time to shoot you, and you may be able to fight back, or escape. It rewards skill without touching the damage basis. And well, just admit that it’s really exciting to play a game with a complete and well implemented movement system. I can’t understand why some player would be against that to be true (the movement system, not raising TTK in general).[/quote]
[quote=“Eox;6169”]I already checked that video two times. I didn’t said that the movement system was not good, just under-exploited, and need more mechanics. Also I’ve just finished a game where I managed to do an ace thing and scored around 10k point with alternatively Sawbonez and Proxy. So in short, I managed to be average. And I still find the TTK too low.
Stop taking my own skill level as an argument, this feels borderline insulting (I know you didn’t mean to, but I have a rather strong ego). Okay I’m not that good, but I am not plain bad either. I respect your opinion about TTK though, but I’ll keep my own.
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It is under-exploited because you don’t NEED the movement mechanics to do well in the game, however using them will give you a huge advantage. Currently many people don’t use it and so the advantage isn’t obvious but as you see in Pix’s video people who use it have a big advantage over people who don’t.
Your skill level is the basis of your argument. Someone with a high skill level and can track heads for days will find TTK low because they will kill people in 3-4 shots. Likewise, someone with a low skill level will find they die quickly because their movement isn’t very good and they’re easy to track. Put two people with equal skill levels head to head and their TTK will be VERY high because not only do body shots take almost an entire mag, but their bobbing and weaving will cause each other to miss many of the bullets as well.
The TTK is fine.
If I move as fast as proxy I expect to die as fast and vice versa from head on battles. Such is the circle of life.
“Stop taking my own skill level as an argument, this feels borderline insulting (I know you didn’t mean to, but I have a rather strong ego).”
LOLwut. If you know they’re not trying to insult you but your ego still can’t take it, it’s your fault.
Really? You’re trying to argue a point on something that is completely subjective. It is all a matter of personal preference. I loved Enemy Territory because it actually took aiming skill to kill someone. Even if some cheap shit tried to backrage you, you could turn around and kill them if you were a better player. In this game if someone comes up behind you, it’s game over, pretty much instantly. This means that people spend the entire game running around trying to find cheap spots to camp and surprise people. I can see how people might enjoy this but I hate it. I don’t want to have to run around twitching all over the place to try and spot people who are being cheap.
I have found the TTK to be fair. Those with less health like proxy are able to move much quicker to balance out the reduction.
The big issue for me is feedback on how low health you are. When I am in a firefight with someone quite often I die when I feel like I havent taken much damage. If I was compare this to Wolf:ET then I deffinately felt like I had a better idea of how much damage I was taking and adjust my strategy (runaway) accordingly.
Shooting and killing someone takes significant effort, even if you are hitting the head.
I think TTK will be a personal thing and hopefully they have gathered enough data to decide whether it needs adjusting or not
TTK is perfectly fine as far as I am concerned. Especially when you factor in a good player playing a class (like proxy) who has crazy good movement speed and knows how to use jumps to their advantage. Also, strafing out from shotgun from cover while drawing somebody in with proxy mines in the area gives them a huge advantage since the shotgun kills quickly.
I think people who are getting killed too quick aren’t reacting very fast when getting shot or putting themselves in bad positions. I find it extremely hard to die if I am trying to stay alive. It’s better sometimes to pull out your knife and try to run away quickly when being shot than turn around and shotgun somebody from across the map. If you know how to use the movement system you live. Especially if you’re one of the classes with the lowest HP. Fragger has a much harder time getting away.
not true i like when fights are actually fights and not just one guy shooting the other and killing him in under a second[/quote]
my thing is that its not how i experience the game. Very often id have a crazy firefight with a similar SMG merc, where we shootout our primary, blast some pistol rounds; and end up knifing each other to the end.
I’ve had a few rounds with experienced players last night, and playing Fragger suddenly the LMG seemed much weaker, as enemies dodged headshots constantly, making it that much harder too kill them. Compare that to some newbies who run in straight lines, they get insta-killed by doube-triple HSs
I really feel like the problem with this game is its randomness. No amount of TTK calibration will fix that. Sometimes you might kill someone in a sec and then you can die the same way. To me, that really feels random and even if you aim and move decently you can still lose to someone just spraying their gun everywhere.
[quote=“Szakalot;6264”]I think TTK is overall in a perfect spot.
a) many players don’t know how to dodge. The only time you complain about TTK is when you get killed too fast, people don’t complain when getting fast kills themselves. Dodging makes you live much much longer. There is more to dodging than ADAD, you have to analyze the map and the angles, consider nearby cover you can hide behind. If you run out in the open and try to take two players on from a distance, don’t be surprised if you get killed
b) many weapons are one-shot kills. Fragger’s nades, sniper, shotgun ( i think shotties one-shot 100hp, which I dislike; personally I’d like shotguns only be able to one shot other light mercs).[/quote]
Well, fair enough. I have to admit that players that are not that good may argue about TTK, and I am not the best player in the world so…
Yet, I managed yesterday to do some pretty good games, ending with more than 11k score and things like that, positive K/D ratio (I guess it’s good). Yet I still felt like TTK was really too low. What I have to blame about that TTK is that I can’t have long enough “duels” to take enough satisfaction. Unless me and the guy I am fighting against are going full derp with the aim, it feels short. Too short. I won’t tell that killing four enemies in a row is not jubilant, but what’s with the thrilling feel when you are two gentlemen fighting to death face to face for the control point or something ? Right now it feels like “two seconds later, I am either dead or the guy in front of me is dead”. And let’s not talk about flanking and other surprise attacks : unless the guy who does this fails, you have almost no chance to fight back. That’s what’s bothering me about TTK. Fights are not long enough, and fighting back seems really hard unless you are not engaged the proper way by your enemy. Maybe that’s not what you have experienced, after all it’s more a matter of opinion, but that’s what I truly feel about TKK.
I play a lot of FPS game, begining with Team Fortress 2, and I really wish for a longer TTK. I don’t think a lot of people would mind it, and I really feel like it could be a great improvement. Some players may argue that the game will turn into TDM, but public games have a lot of chances to end like that anyway, and there can be a lot of additionnal pleasure and strategy earned when you take a bit more bullets before dying. At least if enough players agree we could give it a shot, and reverse it if at the end it’s terrible. Very few chances that it happens, but I can dream.
Well, I came from a FPS where the devs had the REAAAAAAALLY GOOD IDEA (no, it’s not) to include a random crit system in their game, so I really don’t feel anything really random here. In addition in TF2 every hits done varies between +10% or -10% damage (something like that), so when you hit something with 100hp with a weapon that deals an average of 50hp per hit, and the enemy in front of you kills you with 2 hps remaining due to the random damage spread, you really want to scream.
In DB, once I learned that shotgun’s spread are tighter than I though with Proxy and everything that can carry one, everything felt less random. There’s still shotgun spread and bullet spread though, but in competitive matches the devs can still add later a function to make that spread static (it’s common in the TF2 competitive format : no random crits, no random bullet spread, no random damage spread), if it’s requested of course. But maybe what you are calling random is not what I think.
TTK feels just right to me. And I play mostly light classes (proxy, aura, sawbonez…). As Skazalot mentionned earlier, when you face pretty experienced players, you are really struggling to land HS on them and fight regularly ends with secondary weapons or even melee. I’d also think that making the TTK longer would give an incentive to players to over-use abilities even under heavy fire. Not to mention the potatoe-gun feel it’d give to any weapon. Both Brink and ET:QW had pretty long TTK and to me it was horrible. IMO, it just ruins the overall dynamic of the game.
If you die too fast that means you probably aren’t playing your best. You aren’t dodging and you are putting yourself in situations where you’re not only getting shot by the guy you’re fighting but the other two people in the area as well. You have to know where to fight. I see people go out into the center of some maps and I just don’t understand what they think they are doing. You can get shot from so many angles there. If you try to be Rambo and go up the center of a map you’re going to fight 1-2 people in front of you while also getting shot in the side.
Combine that with a lot of people not knowing how to run correctly (switching to knife and using the terrain and having a backup plan wherever you go) and you end up with people thinking TTK is too low despite it being much much higher than most games. The TTK in this feels a lot like wolf honestly and it was perfect. People going for headshots and who use terrain/angles properly live forever while killing fast. Others die over and over.
what is important to consider is that most of firefight mechanics are very much based on W:ET, so newcomers who never played it are going up against people with 5+ years of experience in this type of engagements.
While a newbie W:ET server might feel like the TTK is much higher, if you go anywhere near highly skilled players, it feels as if you died even faster than in DB!
Talking about mechanics and giving ideas isn’t whining. It’s called constructive criticism that the devs asked for. And your post isn’t constructive at all. This isn’t the YT comments section.
The TTK is far too fast for a game that is supposed to be focused on teamwork and objective play. It is the reason so many players are more focused on TDM instead of playing the objectives. Most of these players would walk away with very few kills if the element of surprise wasn’t so advantageous.
I doubt it will change however, the fact the game is F2P means it is targeted at the low skill majority, and they are well known for walking away from games that don’t make it stupidly easy for them to get kills.
If the TTK stays as it is, then this game has already failed as a teamwork/objective game. In all the matches I played over the weekend, only one of them was actually any good, with both teams focusing on playing the objectives instead of just randomly killing. There is a reason so many players leave in the middle of a match, it is because their teammates are morons that are running around looking for kills instead of trying to win the match.
The game also has practically no future in its current state as a competitive e-sport, because the highest skilled players will kill each other ridiculously quickly, so winning the match will revolve around wiping the other team (TDM), then tackling the objectives while they have some breathing space. That gets really boring to play, and is even more boring to watch.
Okay I’m not that good, but I am not plain bad either. I respect your opinion about TTK though, but I’ll keep my own.