Confused about selecting character

(Nail) #161

you may be confusing statistics with abilities, a heavy won’t auto trump a light if he can’t shoot and the light can

(H0RSE) #162

one team has 2 heavies, 2 mediums, and 4 lighters; and will from now on be referred to as team 224. the other team has 4 mediums and 4 lights and will be referred to as team 44. team 224 is attacking and pushes towards the objective. 224’s 4 lights act as scouts, protecting the flanks while the 2 mediums and 2 heavies act as the core of the push. because the lights are protecting the flanks, 44’s lights and mediums won’t be able to flank the heavies and mediums of 224. Without the possibility of flanking the enemy, 44 is forced into a straightforward fight with 224, where 224 has a clear advantage with higher combined health and stronger weapons.

Again, this comes down to player skill. Your scenario plays well on paper, but not so much in real life. You also assume that team 44 would not be able to adapt at all - as if 224’s strategy was so perfect, that 44 had only one option, not to mention that classes and abilities are what ultimately make a team “better” or not.

(Atavax) #163

i assume equal player skill. ok, whats the weakness of 224. assume that 224’s lights are competent enough where you can’t get by them unnoticed. if you were the leader of 44, tell me how you would use strategy to gain an advantage.

i am not trying to suggest that a certain strategy will win regardless of skill or chance. I am saying certain strategies regarding certain sets of bodytypes will be superior to any strategy with some of the other sets of bodytypes. and While the inferior strategies with inferior sets of bodytypes will not always lose, there is an inherent weakness to them that will lead to every team thats competent and trying to win away from them in favor of either a singular set of bodytypes or several very specific sets of bodytypes. and the only way to avoid organized gameplay from being so static is to allow for changes in bodytype through the round to increase the ways teams can respond to situations. A 8 player light team’s strategy would probably never work in a game where bodytypes or locked, but all 8 players being light for a small fragment of the game, could be a viable strategy if bodytypes weren’t locked.

(.Chris.) #164

Grab a nade launcher and blast them from their ‘safe’ spots that I can’t reach.

(tokamak) #165

Damn, seems like another essay of mine got lost in the ether. Anyway I’m not clear-minded enough to write it again. Just rest assured that it would agree everyone who disagrees with me, like it always does, ahem.

Locking down bodytypes is exactly what would stop the game from being static, it would prevent people from always having the right bodytype for the task. It would mean there are situations that you aren’t fit for but have to deal with anyway.

(Atavax) #166

[QUOTE=tokamak;252045]
Locking down bodytypes is exactly what would stop the game from being static, it would prevent people from always having the right bodytype for the task. It would mean there are situations that you aren’t fit for but have to deal with anyway.[/QUOTE]

we have already stated, and you have been either unable or unwilling to argue otherwise, that whether bodytypes are locked or not, there would be no danger of people always having the right bodytype for the task at hand; there would still be situations you aren’t fit for, but have to deal with anyway. you are unable to change your bodytype in the middle of the fight, and going back to areas where you can change your bodytype would waste valuable time and would be a powerful incentive not to switch.

(Crytiqal) #167

But you would switch to get the right bodytype for the task at hand, right?

Or are you saying that people would tend to switch to a bodytype which ISN’T right for the current task?

As we have already stated, bodytypes do not affect a fight so you wouldn’t have to switch in the middle of one.
(Example: Light bodytype shoots heavy from inaccesable distance, heavy got extra health to take the impact)

(tokamak) #168

WOA you’re talking switching bodytypes in-field?!

Although that’s rich enough, the essence still stands, you’re switching bodytype because it will land you an advantage over the players who have found their ‘spot’ in the battlefield by their own strength. This option pisses all over the tactical insight of such players.

(Lizzrd) #169

If you’re a heavy you’ll still have the advantage of more health over lights.
It’s not like it matters that much though, since every class CAN and WILL be able to reach every objective.

(tokamak) #170

Without a specified situation no bodytype will ever have an advantage.

(Atavax) #171

right, and because players are not easily predictable and should be mobile, its impossible to do what you suggest with unlocked bodytypes unless you could change them like in the middle of a battle.

lizzard created an account, just to tell you, you are wrong, toka

(tokamak) #172

You agree with him that the heavy has an advantage over the light?

(Atavax) #173

thats not what he is saying… i wonder how much of the problems in this thread is just a result of your poor english comprehension.

(tokamak) #174

Could be, could also be another way to opt out of the discussion. If you have any intention of making a point then perhaps you could explain to me where this guy pointed out where I’m wrong?

(Fishbus) #175

There’s a lot of combinations for everything, and a lot of situational cases that arise from the layout of the maps. It’s going to be hard to find the perfect build. For specific parts of a level, perhaps!

(LyndonL) #176

Hehehe these threads are awesome… I skipped the last 4 pages and I can still follow it. It’s like watching The Bold and the Beautiful or some other trash… one episode per year is all you need to stay current :smiley:

(Atavax) #177

talking about opting out of the discussion… how about you address my last point? and i didn’t say he pointed out that you were wrong, he created an account and made a post just to disagree with you.

[QUOTE=Atavax;252137]right, and because players are not easily predictable and should be mobile, its impossible to do what you suggest with unlocked bodytypes unless you could change them like in the middle of a battle.

lizzard created an account, just to tell you, you are wrong, toka[/QUOTE]

soo… without a specific situation, no bodytype will ever have an advantage. and people are mobile in fps’s and people try to be unpredictable, and if they are of equal skill as you, they are going to be damn hard to predict, so how are they going to have the perfect bodytype for every situation where according to you, there would need to be a very specific situation for a specific bodytype to have an advantage…

(Crytiqal) #178

a specified situation does NOT imply a firefight.

A bodytype does NOT have the upperhand in any firefight as I explained before.

(Heavy, slow and more health) / (Light, fast and less health) = 1

(tokamak) #179

I already did. Whether or not there’s a delay in it doesn’t matter. The point is that you would change whenever you would have the chance to get an advantage like that. There’s no skill in that. None.

And the fun in that is that players don’t always have the best bodytype for each part of the map. Light guys might have to hold whole rooms and heavy guys might have to cross open spaces on their own. Operating out of our comfort zone requires skill.

(Atavax) #180

[QUOTE=tokamak;252242]I already did. Whether or not there’s a delay in it doesn’t matter. The point is that you would change whenever you would have the chance to get an advantage like that. There’s no skill in that. None.
[/QUOTE]

it absolutely matters because people are dynamic and only under very specific conditions does a bodytype have an advantage against the other. so with the delay, you are no more likely to get an advantage from changing as a reaction to a current situation then you were to not change, because by the time you change, the situation will be different.