Comp mode waiting time

(FireWorks) #1

Ok, we now reached the point beyond rediculous. I tried 5 times since the patch and got just a single match (with a stomp anyway).

For the other matches the whole process took over 15mins each time. We usually quit after 20mins without a match. In EU, during primetime.

I gather people to Q with since the frustration is endless with the people youd get assigned. We are not great but at least we can talk to eachother and have some sort of teamplay.
This has died since the last patch.

There was a forfeit vote introduced… Well, currently there is nothing to forfeit since the MM setting seem so harsh that I dont find a match either way.

With the forfeit in place, we can have shorter waiting times and less than perfect matches…

Either way, the ratio of watching the counter to actual playtime is currently not acceptable. It was fun to gather people for a quick comp match during the day. This fun is gone.

(left aside from the lobby bugs where you dont get connected even if there is a match shown).

(alphabeta) #2

Waited 35 minutes with group of 5 and no match in US or EU

(Glottis-3D) #3

Can any1 confirm on waiting time getting better?
My friends played several games yesterday with waiting for about 5 minuts eah time.
*5 golds

(prophett) #4

Tried Solo 3-4 times in the last week waiting anywhere from 10-20mins each time without any luck.

(watsyurdeal) #5

[QUOTE=Smooth;540593]Indeed, the biggest problem right now is that there’s simply not enough people playing it.

The current matchmaking does now has hard limits on skill differences, based on party size, which does mean that larger teams will have a longer time searching. The maximum allowed skill difference (from the averaged skill of the party) for each Party size is listed below:

[ul]
[li]Solo: All Ranks
[/li][li]Party of 2: ~11 Ranks up or down
[/li][li]Party of 3: ~6 Ranks up or down
[/li][li]Party of 4: ~4 Ranks up or down
[/li][li]Party of 5: ~2 Ranks up or down
[/li][/ul]
Please note: Unranked players are typically around Sliver 1 or Gold 5

The matchmaker will still prioritise players of closer rank, but over 5 minutes the search will expand to include players up to the maximums listed here.

The reason we have a maximum here is because as Party Size increases, the team-balancer has less power to make things even. When it’s a Party of 5, the team-balancer can’t do anything at all, so it has to match with people of much closer skill.

We do have many plans to improve Competitive Matchmaking, listed below, but I can’t promise dates or give ETA’s on any of these just yet.

[ul]
[li]Introduce Ranked Seasons with rewards for reaching a certain Rank
[/li][li]Improving ranking system so players move up/down more quickly
[/li][li]Have unranked players start matchmaking below the average skill levels
[/li][li]Update the name of the Ranks and the Rank Icons to be more understandable
[/li][li]Enable Friendly Fire in Competitive Matchmaking
[/li][li]Introduce a Merc Drafting Mode to Competitive Matchmaking
[/li][/ul]

Other potential changes include adding a Solo/Duo Queue and a separate Party-of-5 Queue, but until we have more players actually playing, this would mean even longer queue times that you are currently having.

We’re also going to continue working on anti-cheat, performance and bug-fixes, all of which should see more new players making their way into Competitive Matchmaking once they reach Level 7.[/QUOTE]

These all sound great but don’t you think a stronger incentive to play it in the first place would help?

Like these Expert Cases, don’t sell them for cash, have them drop in competitive only, and make Elite Cases $2.49. This way you not only give people a reason to play competitive but your prices and competitive mode also compete with Counter Strike.

It’ll just come down to what type of shooter experience people look for rather than one being better than the other, and from there you can refine it.

(Szakalot) #6

Agree its pretty bad right now, but…

the stomps we had before were unacceptable as well. Cobalt+gold teams stomping unranked & silvers should never happen.

What we really need is some hype around matchmaking, it has to be fixed first of course. so:

  • party mode for pubheroes
  • solo/duo queue matchmaking
  • more meaningful rank promotions/season rewards etc.

What we need to fix matchmaking is a surge of new players. Of course matchmaking is dying out: the only way to play is to gather 5 players, and only if you are at gold+ lvl, cause those are the only types of premades that are looking for a game. With time, less and less players try matchmaking, why bother joining and getting stomped in a clueless team?

Solo/duo queue would be the easiest way to introduce a lot of people to matchmaking while at the same time allowing high-level players to queue as well. Only once a steady matchmaking playerbase is in place can we hope to introduce the premades back

I think it has to be accepted that at this point matchmaking cannot be salvaged whilst still allowing high-level premades to queue and stomp everyone else.

(Smooth) #7

Indeed, the biggest problem right now is that there’s simply not enough people playing it.

The current matchmaking does now has hard limits on skill differences, based on party size, which does mean that larger teams will have a longer time searching. The maximum allowed skill difference (from the averaged skill of the party) for each Party size is listed below:

[ul]
[li]Solo: All Ranks
[/li][li]Party of 2: ~11 Ranks up or down
[/li][li]Party of 3: ~6 Ranks up or down
[/li][li]Party of 4: ~4 Ranks up or down
[/li][li]Party of 5: ~2 Ranks up or down
[/li][/ul]
Please note: Unranked players are typically around Sliver 1 or Gold 5

The matchmaker will still prioritise players of closer rank, but over 5 minutes the search will expand to include players up to the maximums listed here.

The reason we have a maximum here is because as Party Size increases, the team-balancer has less power to make things even. When it’s a Party of 5, the team-balancer can’t do anything at all, so it has to match with people of much closer skill.

We do have many plans to improve Competitive Matchmaking, listed below, but I can’t promise dates or give ETA’s on any of these just yet.

[ul]
[li]Introduce Ranked Seasons with rewards for reaching a certain Rank
[/li][li]Improving ranking system so players move up/down more quickly
[/li][li]Have unranked players start matchmaking below the average skill levels
[/li][li]Update the name of the Ranks and the Rank Icons to be more understandable
[/li][li]Enable Friendly Fire in Competitive Matchmaking
[/li][li]Introduce a Merc Drafting Mode to Competitive Matchmaking
[/li][/ul]

Other potential changes include adding a Solo/Duo Queue and a separate Party-of-5 Queue, but until we have more players actually playing, this would mean even longer queue times that you are currently having.

We’re also going to continue working on anti-cheat, performance and bug-fixes, all of which should see more new players making their way into Competitive Matchmaking once they reach Level 7.

(Kl3ppy) #8

I’m surprised that there is no rank limit for playing alone. I was expecting no rank limit for a party of 5 players.

(Smooth) #9

When playing solo, players of closer rank will still be prioritised and chosen first (the values listed there are just the absolute maximum hard limit) even after the search expansion is completed.

This is because once everyone is in the session, the team-balancer can take 10 players of varying skill and make sure that the teams are evenly balanced based on those skill ratings. With a party of 5 it can’t do that, because it is forced to keep the party together on one team.

In my mind, a evenly mixed group of Cobalts, Golds & Silvers on both sides is going to result in a more even and fun match than five ‘high-Cobalts’ vs five ‘low-Golds’.

Ideally we would only ever have Cobalt vs Cobalt and Gold vs Gold, but we don’t have enough players using matchmaking right now to force those kinds of restrictions. Perhaps once the other changes I’ve listed have been made :slight_smile:

(Szakalot) #10

[QUOTE=Smooth;540596]When playing solo, players of closer rank will still be prioritised and chosen first (the values listed there are just the absolute maximum hard limit) even after the search expansion is completed.

This is because once everyone is in the session, the team-balancer can take 10 players of varying skill and make sure that the teams are evenly balanced based on those skill ratings. With a party of 5 it can’t do that, because it is forced to keep the party together on one team.

In my mind, a evenly mixed group of Cobalts, Golds & Silvers on both sides is going to result in a more even and fun match than five ‘high-Cobalts’ vs five ‘low-Golds’.

Ideally we would only ever have Cobalt vs Cobalt and Gold vs Gold, but we don’t have enough players using matchmaking right now to force those kinds of restrictions. Perhaps once the other changes I’ve listed have been made :)[/QUOTE]

All those changes sound great! Couple of points:

  • sounds like teambalancer grabs people according to rank and only then assigns the teams based on the skill rating. This makes it more likely that a wider range of players will be joining the same matchmaking server. Ideally the teambalancer would grab the 10 people based on their skill rating, and not rank alone.
  • Faster moving up/down ranks would partially solve this
  • I don’t know how the skill rating evaluates a player, but it seems like there is a wide array of stats that would contribute to a player’s ability. total K/D and total W/L are not ideal but generally give a good overview if a player is really good vs terrible. Score/minute could be useful too, particularly without badges (which are overrepresented in stomping teams)

  • solo/duo queue would be the easiest way to introduce people to matchmaking. Imo best time to hype matchmaking are those seasons mentioned: if a solo/duo queue is open and rewards are promised we can surely expect a swarm of players going into MM. Since solo/duo is much easier to balance, good and tight games could easily get the MM ball rolling.

  • imo premades can be totally abandoned cause the idea isn’t working at all. If private match system is sexied up a bit, those premades could easily fight other premades. Maybe some type of RTS-style PUG lobby for people to find those serious premade games?

  • matchmaking should be pub+, rather than a place for serious clans&competition to test their strats.
(Smooth) #11

Sorry for any confusion but the matchmaker works entirely off skill-rating, which the Ranks simply visualise. I only used Ranks to explain things since that’s all the players see. In Competitve, a players skill-rating is purely based off Wins and Losses in an Elo-style system.

(Mustang) #12

@Szakalot
It doesn’t use player metrics to evaluate skill, it uses an Elo rating, i.e. if you win vs a team worse than your team you increase rating a little, if you win vs a team better than you you increase rating a lot, and visa-versa for losing. There is also an uncertainly factor which basically governs how large/small the little/lot changes are, basically the more games you play the lower the uncertainly, or put another way the more confident it is that you’re at the correct rating for your ability/skill.

Also as the matchmaking stuff is powered by Fireline and ranks are a game specific thing I’d guess that it does actually grab people by rating rather than rank.

(spookify) #13

[QUOTE=Smooth;540596]When playing solo, players of closer rank will still be prioritised and chosen first (the values listed there are just the absolute maximum hard limit) even after the search expansion is completed.

This is because once everyone is in the session, the team-balancer can take 10 players of varying skill and make sure that the teams are evenly balanced based on those skill ratings. With a party of 5 it can’t do that, because it is forced to keep the party together on one team.

In my mind, a evenly mixed group of Cobalts, Golds & Silvers on both sides is going to result in a more even and fun match than five ‘high-Cobalts’ vs five ‘low-Golds’.

Ideally we would only ever have Cobalt vs Cobalt and Gold vs Gold, but we don’t have enough players using matchmaking right now to force those kinds of restrictions. Perhaps once the other changes I’ve listed have been made :)[/QUOTE]

The Cobalt vs Cobalt and Gold v Gold; will that actually work in the current algorithm?

I tried some ranked MM last night and got matched against 2 cobalt’s to my Elite rank. Then the remaining people were Golds and unranks on both teams. If my team didnt have a blatant haxer we would have got crushed. Even with the haxer the other team still progressed on the map haha!

Once you start getting into the High or even low Cobalts the skill gap is very small. The shots are very close and have it comes down to is the people you are playing with and team work. So to match 2 low cobalts against an Elite and call it even is a huge overstatement.

What I see happening is possible at the start of a new season people will solo que. Better chance to Rank Up aka get some low skilled people and crush them. Once this person gets to around a low cobalt they will start to have to play with 2 or 4 people to keep progressing in rank. This is sort of what I did to reach Elite and knowing the fact that you have people that at least know what they are doing.

But like people said the wait for a 5 man was crazy. We left our party after 20 minutes and gave up.

(Demolama) #14

I say just wipe the ranks and start fresh… problem solved :slight_smile: /s

(Szakalot) #15

wipe ranks and solo/duo queue!

At least we would have actual matchmaking going

(spookify) #16

[QUOTE=Szakalot;540610]wipe ranks and solo/duo queue!

At least we would have actual matchmaking going[/QUOTE]

I think 5 mans will be fine if 5 solo people of high skill que up. But there is not enough people to test this. Get an all Cobalt 5 man vs 3 Elites and and 2 high cobalts all from solo que and have at it. But like I said we dont have people like this solo queing. We do have the 5 high Cobalts queing though and they just sit there…

Plus with what seems to be a new round of haxer the Ranked MM is taking a back seat.

I think solo que also needs some work to make better matches once more players are in. Again and Elite or High Cobalt should not be playing with or against Low Gold and below… And one Elite does not equal two cobalts for the other team…

(Szakalot) #17

[QUOTE=spookify;540611]I think 5 mans will be fine if 5 solo people of high skill que up. But there is not enough people to test this. Get an all Cobalt 5 man vs 3 Elites and and 2 high cobalts all from solo que and have at it. But like I said we dont have people like this solo queing. We do have the 5 high Cobalts queing though and they just sit there…

Plus with what seems to be a new round of haxer the Ranked MM is taking a back seat.

I think solo que also needs some work to make better matches once more players are in. Again and Elite or High Cobalt should not be playing with or against Low Gold and below… And one Elite does not equal two cobalts for the other team…[/QUOTE]

the thing is that you need 5 soloqueues looking for a game at the same time as the premade of 5. That is never going to be easy, and I’m not convinced that a premade can be countered with just 5 soloqueues.

Foregoing premades allows you to pick and mix. If only 8 high level players are looking at a particular moment you hand them one more player each and get a game going.

I think a solo/duo queue mode could easily be the go-to mod for DB, just like competitive is the go-to mode for CS. Whether solo/duo queue should be the only matchmaking mode available or simply on the side of the premade mode would have to be based on their popularity. I don’t see this as splitting the whole matchmaking community, cause the surge of new players is pretty much guaranteed.

If solo/duo is what people want, let us play that! Cause the matchmaking as it is now is not working, and i think thats pretty clear to everyone.

(spookify) #18

[QUOTE=Szakalot;540612]the thing is that you need 5 soloqueues looking for a game at the same time as the premade of 5. That is never going to be easy, and I’m not convinced that a premade can be countered with just 5 soloqueues.

Foregoing premades allows you to pick and mix. If only 8 high level players are looking at a particular moment you hand them one more player each and get a game going.

I think a solo/duo queue mode could easily be the go-to mod for DB, just like competitive is the go-to mode for CS. Whether solo/duo queue should be the only matchmaking mode available or simply on the side of the premade mode would have to be based on their popularity. I don’t see this as splitting the whole matchmaking community, cause the surge of new players is pretty much guaranteed.

If solo/duo is what people want, let us play that! Cause the matchmaking as it is now is not working, and i think thats pretty clear to everyone.[/QUOTE]

SD really messed up making the game not a 6v6. (I can see why they did it with the small maps but 6v6 is just better and will be better with better maps!)

Everything works better with even numbers… Look at the que for example. We would do a real solo que! then 2 and up! We could have a solo que season and 2+ seasons! Each get their own rank.

This also works really well for execution comp and drafting.

(Glottis-3D) #19

[QUOTE=Smooth;540593]Indeed, the biggest problem right now is that there’s simply not enough people playing it.

The current matchmaking does now has hard limits on skill differences, based on party size, which does mean that larger teams will have a longer time searching. The maximum allowed skill difference (from the averaged skill of the party) for each Party size is listed below:

[ul]
[li]Solo: All Ranks[/li][li]Party of 2: ~11 Ranks up or down[/li][li]Party of 3: ~6 Ranks up or down[/li][li]Party of 4: ~4 Ranks up or down[/li][li]Party of 5: ~2 Ranks up or down[/li][/ul]
Please note: Unranked players are typically around Sliver 1 or Gold 5

The matchmaker will still prioritise players of closer rank, but over 5 minutes the search will expand to include players up to the maximums listed here.

The reason we have a maximum here is because as Party Size increases, the team-balancer has less power to make things even. When it’s a Party of 5, the team-balancer can’t do anything at all, so it has to match with people of much closer skill.

We do have many plans to improve Competitive Matchmaking, listed below, but I can’t promise dates or give ETA’s on any of these just yet.

[ul]
[li]Introduce Ranked Seasons with rewards for reaching a certain Rank[/li][li]Improving ranking system so players move up/down more quickly[/li][li]Have unranked players start matchmaking below the average skill levels[/li][li]Update the name of the Ranks and the Rank Icons to be more understandable[/li][li]Enable Friendly Fire in Competitive Matchmaking[/li][li]Introduce a Merc Drafting Mode to Competitive Matchmaking[/li][/ul]

Other potential changes include adding a Solo/Duo Queue and a separate Party-of-5 Queue, but until we have more players actually playing, this would mean even longer queue times that you are currently having.

We’re also going to continue working on anti-cheat, performance and bug-fixes, all of which should see more new players making their way into Competitive Matchmaking once they reach Level 7.[/QUOTE]
but you do know, that if not return it asap, noone wil play MM at all within 2 weeks? we cannot just wait for ppl to start play MM.

(Glottis-3D) #20

this should have been a slight change, like make premades increase their waiting time with slight profression.
5 premades wait double the time until max expand
2 premades with 20% more than solo