Community Question: Spread vs Recoil

(tokamak) #21

The post-slipgate spawn was too essential for the ease in which the Strogg could capture it. Rather than make the forward spawns less important, the capacity at which you can defend them needs to be directly tied to how important they are. The Canyon forward spawns are much harder to capture and are also incredibly important.

(Breo) #22

You know that UE3 don’t have lag compensation? Sometimes you can hit what you want it won’t register it’s like any other game :rolleyes:

(Humate) #23

ETQW did it best.

Ok now for the serious answer. :slight_smile:
Vertical recoil + low spread, with various reset times.

Things like rate of fire/dmg/firing mode/range would obviously determine the gun type itself, but ultimately is far more important that the recoil/spread values of two weapons of the exact type. I know thats not what youre looking for, just my opinion. Would rather have only 1 weapon per weapon type… per faction :wink:

(shirosae) #24

Spread should be used in one joke gun that actually shoots dice and comes in DLC that gives you a Batman-esque villain’s pink hat. Other than that:

Recoil. Predicable, controllable vertical recoil.

Light weapons: Good damage, good accuracy, smaller mags. Higher recoil, so burst firing is the way to go. Maybe project curved bullet trajectories so you can blend with damage falloff over distance to make them less effective long range weapons without the lottery.

Heavy weapons: Good damage, good accuracy, larger mags. Lower recoil, so you can afford extended firing times without becoming useless, if you position yourself properly. Have straighter bullet trajectories and a slower damage falloff with distance so they can work as sniping weapons too.

Everyone can move about quickly, and have their aim make a difference. Light weapons are lethal if you can get your headshots whilst managing the recoil and timing your bursts whilst dancing, but suck if you try to spray people down. Heavy weapons are lethal if you can position properly and time your pushes well with support, but suck if you try to rambo with them.

(DarkangelUK) #25

Guess it depends on the game really. If it’s an arcadey shootery type then I’d just prefer a small selection of different of guns with different attributes (RtCW and W:ET was fine for me). With the more simmy warry type I’d prefer several attributes. So a lighter gun means you can move faster with it and also keep some level accuracy while shooting on the move, smaller clip size, quicker fire rate but lower damage but quite accurate. Heavier weapons mean you move slower, larger clip size, more accurate when firing stood still and with longer bursts and also gives more damage.

I’m not a fan of wild, random spray tbh. Tbh I’m probably not the best person on this subject. I like accurate hitscans of Quake 3/Live, I like decent pace and relatively low spread of RtCW/W:ET… but I also like to jump on slower paced games like CS:S and CoD, though the random spread while moving with those games can do my head in.

(INF3RN0) #26

ETQW style, but maybe with some more diverse options. Any form of upping the skill cap of mastering a weapon is fairly rewarded with something like increased damage or accuracy. The GPMG was one of my favorite weapons to use!

(Runeforce) #27

“your preferred way of differentiating weapons of the same type”…uhm, by looks?

Same type, does that mean equal power? So how I prefer variations (?) between weapons of equal ammount of power?

High spread makes close quarters weapons (hrof), high recoil makes long range weapons (lrof), me would think.

Tricky questions. I need to contemplate on the answer…

In the meantime, how about a test for the community were we could try the possibilities out? :slight_smile:

(.Chris.) #28

Read the poll options?

Pretty much what shirosae said for me, too tired to think up my own arguments.

(BackSnip3) #29

Guns should have a nice feeling, so recoil is needed. A little spread is nice too, but need to be able to fire accurately while running. I think ETQW( for the balance) and Rage(for the feeling) did it quite nice.

(DJScream) #30

Yeah zero spread and small controllable recoil. Shirosae said things pretty well.

(tokamak) #31

Spread simulates the attention you’re able to devote to your weapon and recoil is a property innate to the gun holding a lot of sway (no pun intended) in it’s character.
You’ll need both.

(Dormamu) #32

differentiating weapons of the same type:

  • hand guns - by clip size vs damage;
  • light weapons - by spread vs clip size
  • medium weapons - by attachments vs recoil/spread
  • heavy weapons - by recoil/spread vs reload time vs splash damage
  • long range weapons - by reload time vs damage, some weapons with pinpoint accuracy and low recoil as long as you can predict the wind speed and distance, “Sniper Elite Style :D” with higher damage per shot.
    It will be nice if you implement a spotter job for another teammate: if a teammate is in a vicinity of the sniper and use the binocular (spot->tag target) on a enemy, the accuracy of the sniper will increase on that specific target (=small adjustments on your scope for wind /distance).

PS Also make the muzzle attachments from Brink have a real impact on countering the lateral recoil while moving or counter the vertical recoil by gaining spread or give me the weapons from W:ET and let me play with those :smiley:

(attack) #33

spread.there is a simply reason too.many players of taktik shooters like ET or CS, quakebased shooter (Ql…) prefer lowsens.recoil can be so anoying with lowsens.but dont put the weaponspread up to like brink,i dont want to reload after 1kill.well i prefer for sure the way ET was going.the gunplay was near to perfect.(it felt fast and rly was based on skill)

(BioSnark) #34

“A cominbation of spread and recoil”

Perhaps recoil while using scope/sights, spread while not? idk and don’t really have a preference.

(Humate) #35

Heavy weapons: Good damage, good accuracy, larger mags. Lower recoil, so you can afford extended firing times without becoming useless, if you position yourself properly. Have straighter bullet trajectories and a slower damage falloff with distance so they can work as sniping weapons too.

Lower recoil than AR, or do you mean low in general?
I know in ETQW GPMG had double the recoil of the Assault Rile in standing/crouch positions.
And the Hyper had exactly the same recoil as the Lacerator, except in prone position.

Which brings up a cool point for the thread discussion - standing / crouching / prone and attributing different values to each :slight_smile:

edit: link

(shirosae) #36

[QUOTE=Humate;404439]Lower recoil than AR, or do you mean low in general?
I know in ETQW GPMG had double the recoil of the Assault Rile in standing/crouch positions.
And the Hyper had exactly the same recoil as the Lacerator, except in prone position.

Which brings up a cool point for the thread discussion - standing / crouching / prone :)[/QUOTE]

I mean that in general, as weapons get ‘heavier’ they get less recoil, across the board.

My thinking is that stance should affect recoil, so it doesn’t make as much difference with a heavy weapon cause they’re already good with it, but light weapons gain a reduction in recoil if you’re willing to give up your mobility and crouch/prone. You can then use weapons kinda like the weight class above by sighting/crouching, so an SMG can function a lot like an AR with a smaller mag, and an AR like an LMG with a smaller mag, but if you do this you lose the mobility required to dance away incoming fire.

Lighter guns then act as more variable guns with a larger range of uses, IYSWIM, but heavier guns always have an extended range and stamina for pewpewing.

You then have your ‘light’ players continually skipping in, taking shots and skipping back out to reload, and you have ‘heavy’ players trying to bulldoze through, and you manage it without adding lottery spread or screwing with HP values or making movement too slow.

EDIT: And yeah, similar kind of movement speed reduction as with ETQW: SMGs don’t impede movement speed at all, HMG bring you down to 85% (or whatever). Just enough speed impairment to balance the hindrance that aiming for headshots with a recoiling gun under fire presents.

(tokamak) #37

The GPMG in ETQW had a vertical recoil. Which was easy to compensate for. The Maximus in Brink also had an additional random recoil which was impossible to compensate. Extremely frustrating.

@Shirosae: What’s curious to me is how you say stance should affect recoil (it indeed should) but the game shouldn’t have any spread. IE people will be running around with 100% accurate guns on the first shot no matter what they do. Surely if you accept that your stance influences the control you have over your weapon then that should also apply to all the shots?

(shirosae) #38

Nope. I’m trying to make a game, not a simulation.

Also, I didn’t say the game shouldn’t have spread. This thread is about distinguishing weapons from each other. I don’t think spread should be used to distinguish between weapons.

I’d happily accept a very small amount of spread and/or variation in muzzle velocity to act as a random seed. The first shot should be 100% accurate, though.

(tokamak) #39

I’m not talking realism here. Why should a runner or jumper have the same accuracy as someone standing still or crouching? That’s just not fair.

Spread is ideal to distinguish weapons from each other. Not every weapon is as easy to handle on the move. Adding spread into the mix gives far more fidelity and diversity between the weapons.

(DarkangelUK) #40

At the end of the day I’d probably rather have an arcadey shooter than sim. The draw back in an arcade shooter of moving and shooting is the fact that you’re moving while shooting, seems that some people think moving and aiming accurately is just as easy as standing still and aiming accurately.