Community Question: Shooting While Sprinting

(tokamak) #101

It’s not just a game of ‘pee-a-boo’. Every environment has good and bad places to be in, usually the good places are reached by crossing the bad spots. With mobile accuracy you’re simply less vulnerable while crossing the bad spots.

(DarkangelUK) #102

You sound like you’re biased towards the gunners and want to purposely favour the hide-n-seek (“tactical”) player. Again you want to punish someone for being skillful and reward those that aren’t, where as on the flipside the only punishment the players with less aim have is down to themselves. A poor aimer can get better and counter his own frustration as a player, artificial skill caps do nothing but infuriate people.

(tokamak) #103

I want both sides to be presented, that’s why I welcomed the variation in body types, I just think they didn’t seize enough upon the opportunity to get something for both extremes and the middle guy.

You sound like you’re biased towards the gunners and want to purposely favour the hide-n-seek (“tactical”) player. Again you want to punish someone for being skillful and reward those that aren’t

This is just haggle speech.

(DarkangelUK) #104

Not entirely sure how since the suggestions so far have gone against the aimer and helped the opposite. I also don’t see how that helps both sides since only 1 benefits and other suffers.

(Humate) #105

[QUOTE=tokamak;386669]
And it’s not just about getting the drop, it’s also the benefit of moving and becoming a harder target that needs compensation. If there’s a cost to moving then locations become relevant. Suddenly it matters where you’re positioned because moving away will mean reduced combat efficiency.[/QUOTE]

In etqw, the more active you are the more attention you bring to yourself. Since the factions have their own set of sounds, its easy to determine the enemy’s position, and that becomes the cost of moving. Ofcourse thats not going to be much use to you if you cant aim in an FPS, or if youre a player that lacks awareness. See a theme here?

(tokamak) #106

One idea was to give the light boy a faster health regeneration which will allow him to take more risk in the open field.

its easy to determine the enemy’s position, and that becomes the cost of moving.

Oh come on, sound plays a really low role in combat.

Not the aimer, the mover! Don’t confuse the two. And it’s not eliminating the field of the mover, just setting the balance straight. A system with a dynamic spread caters for everyone and especially those that are capable of doing all and knowing how to use what tactic when. A system with a flat spread does not.

(DarkangelUK) #107

[QUOTE=tokamak;386676]
Not the aimer, the mover! Don’t confuse the two. And it’s not eliminating the field of the mover, just setting the balance straight. A system with a dynamic spread caters for everyone and especially those that are capable of doing all and knowing how to use what tactic when. A system with a flat spread does not.[/QUOTE]

I’m sorry but you’re inadvertently punishing the aimer. If someone can’t aim to begin with, then they certainly won’t be able to aim when moving so that’s a moot point. An aimer is having to keep moving, predict the enemies movement and keep the crosshair trained on the enemy as well while taking in the environment and what and who’s around them… isn’t their job hard enough without you punishing them for being able to do all that begin with? I’m sorry but what benefit does the aimer, or even the mover… forget aim for this question… get from this? If someone is silly enough to stand still during a firefight, they shouldn’t be rewarded for lazy gunplay.

(.Chris.) #108

Hearing footsteps, doors opening, vehicles braking outside and the like are early warnings to approaching infantry allowing you to pre-aim and pre-shoot.

(Humate) #109

[QUOTE=tokamak;386676]

Oh come on, sound plays a really low role in combat.[/QUOTE]

Are you kidding me?
I used the walk function in possibly every match I played in. :slight_smile:
Massive impact in etqw combat.

In fact that was one of my biggest critisms of Brink when I found out they weren’t taking that approach. And made it well known to those who were designing the game.

(DarkangelUK) #110

Sound is important in any shooter, no idea where he came up with that. Even in QL, jump sounds, different pain sounds when hit depending on health, footsteps which give different sounds dependent on the material walked on, weapon switch sounds, click for low ammo, pickups, item spawns, jump pads, teleports… the list goes on!

(tokamak) #111

Relative to the other cues it’s not that important and it certainly isn’t enough to be the sole cost of moving. The moment battle is engaged it becomes pretty much irrelevant and that’s exactly where the cost should come to bear.

(DarkangelUK) #112

You were just a moment ago preaching situational conflict, tactics and positioning, now we’re concentrating purely on the heat of the battle? Sound is a VERY important factor in the lead up to the engagement, certainly not something to be cast aside as a ‘low role’. Sorry m8 but the more I read, the more I’m convinced you’re not doing shooters properly and you want games to pamper to your skill level rather than you getting better at the game.

(Humate) #113

Youve got the girls number, but you cant close the deal - so you want her to initiate everything else right? :infiltrator:

(tokamak) #114

Who says these things are mutually exclusive? Most battle in ETQW is direct conflict, most situations give you the opportunity to fire back. Sound is hardly relevant once battle is engaged, accuracy and position however are only then starting to become relevant.

(DarkangelUK) #115

And how do you get to that position, run to a spot and hope for the best? If you’re not paying attention to your surroundings, visually and audibly, then your deaths are your own fault, and once again you want the game to make up for your failing as a player. You really need to take a good long look at your play style before thinking you can comment properly on engagement mechanics. You want help when you can’t aim while moving when you won’t help yourself, when you fail to take in your surroundings and get blindsided, and when you can’t properly capitalize on a situation that’s already in your favour. I’m surprised you’re not all for aim assist in PC games as well.

(tokamak) #116

Is it really that hard to make an argument without making personal allegations? You know what, you got me! I want the game to fit my style of play, I have what you call the ADD style, I can’t make up my mind and I get bored playing the same thing too much. I love rushing, I love infiltrating, I love sitting on a hill sniping/calling in artillery all day, I LOVE capturing spawns at the worst moments, I love supporting and I love playing billy the kid.

If I could pick the option to just have a random class setup and body type in these games, I would pick it. My favourite SC2 race is random. Just 8% of the entire SC2 playerbase plays random. I do not work with fixed build orders, I wing everything every time I play.

What I see with these calls for a flattened spread is a clear bias towards one playstyle and one playstyle alone. Empower the runners and it would void almost everything else.

(Thundermuffin) #117

When I first saw the pol I was all for sprint + shooting, but after reading Kendle’s post I agree with him. I came from games where you couldn’t sprint and shoot and I played ETQW before W:ET. When I finally did play W:ET I didn’t really care if I could sprint or not. I understand it has a big impact on the way games can potentially play out, so if it’s in there that’s great. If it isn’t in there, however, I won’t whine about it as long as the game is fast enough.

I personally like how Quake Live handles movement the best. I would prefer a game with a fast base speed wth the ability to gain more speed through strafejumping and things of that nature or to hold shift and walk.

On the topic of if sound helps you play games; please, go play Quake or Counter-Strike and turn off your speakers/headset. Play a few rounds and then turn them on. You’ll see how much sound matters.

(tokamak) #118

In CS, when one players get a bead on the other, 90% of the outcome is already decided. Even worse for Raven Shield. So yeah, of course sound will play a bigger role.

(DarkangelUK) #119

All I see is a clear misunderstanding of the game mechanics as a whole, you’ve identified a lacking in your own ability and want to game to make it up for you. The allegations are built from several discussions involving you and your distaste for aim being a defining factor in the outcome of a gun fight… do you know how silly that sounds? Flattened spread brings the outcome into the players hands instead of luck, you still need to be situationaly aware, you still need to weigh your choices, your positioning, your placement, your surroundings and your team… but you also need the ability to seal the deal instead of relying on random spread to cause the other person to miss because you couldn’t capitalize on your opportunity. All of those things the player has control over, and it seems you want to remove some control over the most important part of the gun fight… the shooting. In what world is random determined outcome that the player has no sway over ever a better choice than bringing it down to all round skill… in ALL aspects?

You need all those aspects to be a prominent player for your team, with randomized spread all that matters is the final encounter itself and everything is rendered pointless.

Player works his ass off to get where he is, in the condition he is, with the aim he’s honed and the movement he’s mastered… and at the end of it all bring it down to dumb luck over who gets the kill. It’s that type of nonsense that drove players away from Brink.

(tokamak) #120

I really don’t see how I’m penalising aiming here. Anyone can have extreme accuracy at any point in time to bring their superior aiming skills to effect, it’s just up to them to decide whether that point in time is the right moment. And well, if they can’t make that kind of decision then this genre is perhaps not for them.

Flattened spread brings the outcome into the players hands instead of luck,

What you call luck is what I call anticipation, empathy and timing.