Community Question: Create a Class

(tangoliber) #181

[QUOTE=MoonOnAStick;408737]Electrical Engineer
Support class with a deployable battery that can power local deployables from other classes, through electromagnetic induction or some other witchcraft. :wink:

– Mini turrets, Tasers, Radar jamming, Jump pads, Tactical shields*.
– Connect to nearby metal floors, water puddles to electrify them.

*some shield asymmetry would be nice - instantly deployable energy shields that only block projectiles vs solid structures that take longer to construct.[/QUOTE]

I like it, especially the deployable jump pad idea… Would be great for providing ways to surprise a defense by attacking from an angle they didn’t expect.

I’d also like to see door welding for engineers…mainly a defensive ability, but a different class could have the ability to cut them back open.

And I agree with the shield asymmetry idea.

(BR1GAND) #182

Excellent Chris, I’ve been beating this drum for years now.:stroggbanana:

Assuming an asymmetric game-style similar to ETQWs, do away with the Field-Ops/Oppressor class but not the abilities. Add two new sub-classes; Team Commander and Squad Leader.

Both the Team Commander and Squad Leader sub-classes are earned and can not be selected by players at the start of the match/campaign (this could be optional in stopwatch/competition game-play). In order to become a Team Commander you must first be a Squad Leader.

Squad Leader: On each team there can be 1 Squad Leader for every 3 team members. Squad Leaders lead from the front, enhance their squads combat effectiveness by excelling on the battlefield. These enhancements come in the form of buffs and and generally only effect the other squad members near the Squad Leader (with the exception being Covert/Sniper classes who would get any enhancements regardless of distance). Here are some combat enhancement possibilities.

  • [li]Soldier I - Ammo Redistribution (Squad-wide ammo pool)[/li][li]Soldier II - Assault (Fire while sprinting)[/li][li]Soldier III - Fields of Fire (Greater Accuracy)[/li][li]Medic I - Physical Conditioning (max health increased)[/li][li]Medic II - Triage (Health Regeneration)[/li][li]Medic III - Adrenaline (Increased Movement Speed)[/li][li]Engineer I - Combat Armor (Squad Wide armor increased)[/li][li]Engineer II - Repair (Slow repair to vehicles and deployables)[/li][li]Engineer III - Efficiency (Faster Disarming/Arming, Hacking, Reloading, Reviving, etc…)[/li][li]Covert I - Spotting (Squad-wide mine, disguise detection)[/li][li]Covert II - Virtual Stealth (Silent Footsteps for Squad)[/li][li]Covert III - Enhanced Stealth (Radar Cloaking)[/li]- These Enhancements are limited in duration (2-3 mins and can be activated by the Squad Leader when awarded for exemplary performance on the battlefield (could be linked to kill streaks, objective completion, multiple revives, or completing missions assigned by the Team Commander).

Becoming a Squad Leader automatically occurs when you are promoted (you can elect not accept the job when this occurs and allow it to go to the next most deserving team-member…YES/F1 or NO/F2 10 secs remaining). Once all the available Squad-leader slots are filled the next team-member promoted triggers the highest ranking Squad Leader to fill the Team Commander slot with the same “accept” dialogue.

Team Commander: The Team Commander can lead from the front or from the rear.

From the front he retains the same enhancements he did as a Squad Leader with a greater radius and they effect all team-members. In-order to issue mission assignments he can deploy the mobile command post, he can also do this as a passenger in a vehicle. While deployed the command post is visible on the enemy radar (unless he is using Enhanced Stealth) and can be engaged as a normal target.

From the rear he enters a static Command Post and is invulnerable, but has no enhancement radius.

From the Command Posts he can issue orders to his Squad Leaders. Accomplishment of these orders by the squad, triggers the Squad Leader enhancement for both the Team Commander and the respective Squad Leader, as well as applying bonus XP. Additional Team Commander abilities might be:

  • [li]Aerial Recon - Reveals portion of the map for a short duration[/li][li]Resupply - Drops either an ammo or health crate or a 4 passenger vehicle[/li][li]Airstrike - Linear bomb run[/li][li]Artillery - Area effecting bombardment[/li][li]Missle Attack* - Can target static point or be guided by Coverts[/li][li]Protective Shield* - Covers a large area map with a temporary shield for protection from Airstrike/Artillery (Similar to the Oppressor Shield but like 4 times the coverage).[/li]*depended on the tech of the new game.

In pub game-play the use of these 2 sub-classes would greatly improve teamwork between strangers on a public server. In clan vs clan matches it would add another dimension to the strategy of objective based game-play. In competition game-play, incorporation of the Squad Leader and/or Team Commander could be optional, limited, or configured prior to the start of the match.

(tokamak) #183

I still think the commander-level deciscions should be made on the basis of an xp-plutocracy. Otherwise there’s too much of a disconnect between what’s happening in the field and what’s assigned from above.

[QUOTE=MoonOnAStick;408737]Electrical Engineer
Support class with a deployable battery that can power local deployables from other classes, through electromagnetic induction or some other witchcraft. :wink:

– Mini turrets, Tasers, Radar jamming, Jump pads, Tactical shields*.
– Connect to nearby metal floors, water puddles to electrify them.

*some shield asymmetry would be nice - instantly deployable energy shields that only block projectiles vs solid structures that take longer to construct.[/QUOTE]

I would like to see a covert ops hacking an enemy artillery deployable, then when he does that, it becomes friendly and any field ops on the friendly team can assign a designation for the fire support on a first come first served basis (without ruining his own cooldown).

It sounds powerful but it really takes a lot of teamwork to get this right due to the very small window of opportunity.

(montheponies) #184

Because the balance is horrific and you end up with really frustrating games whereby you could, for example, spend the entire time being sniped by sniperspecialistwhore from 15miles away or bombarded by ‘aerialbombardmentspecialistwhore’ or just plain old annoyed by ‘speedyrunnyaboutannoyingwhore’. There should always be a baseline which means that most firefights, in particular 1v1s, are resolved by the better player (be that by movement, knowledge of spread, or just sheer musclememory aim). Anything else just feels false and leads to frustration.

Crack on though it’s these kind of ideas and those above that have taken a really cool game (RTCW) and layered two ton of crap to make something far less.

(tokamak) #185

Why is that baseline necessary? I know it’s used as a matter of principle by many people here but really, what’s so important about that? I really don’t see the value. And before I get accused of trying to tailor a game to my skillset, I really did have my hay days as a combat medic in W:ET. I think that such a style should be appreciated as it suits many ways in which tactics can come to fruition. But to say that this is by far the most important fashion in which fights should be resolved is so incredibly limiting to what you can do with a shooter.

Being good at pointing your cursor over someone’s head while moving IS a skill to recognise. But to hear from people that this is the skill that needs to determine everything is just really depressing.

(BioSnark) #186

Couldn’t agree more with you and sockdog.

Class specialization exists in previous ET games. There’s a significant difference between a rocket tube and a heavy machine gun soldier. I don’t have a problem with specialization but I don’t know why you would want to remove a player’s ability to alter that toolset they wield as the situation changes with different objectives and enemy compositions. I don’t see that that adds more in RPG character (or whatever other goal) than it detracts from basic gameplay.

agree that that’s an interesting idea, obviously. To my previous suggestion, I think it might be interesting to consider an alternate firing-mode hand-held shield projector (projects in front of the class while the weapon is out, ‘firing’ and has ‘ammo’ [see ut2k4 shield gun but scaled up]) to make the mechanic more useful for the attacking team.

It did a good job of making classes and structures dependent on each other, and making the cohesion fall apart if you take out certain roles or structures. Unfortunately, the class dependency depended on cloaking, which I generally hate as a mechanic (outside of NS2, where it makes sense.) Heavies were weak against stealths backstabbing them. Assaults could spot stealths through their heat vision…but were very weak against Heavies. The dependency of structures in Nuclear Dawn and NS2 is probably more elegant.

Agree that rock, paper, scissors can get frustrating when pushed to a mid range. It’s one thing that makes me suspicious of going too far with class specialization without committing all the way to that sort of gameplay format and asymmetry.

reread the post.

[QUOTE=MoonOnAStick;408737]Jump pads, Tactical shields*.
*some shield asymmetry would be nice - instantly deployable energy shields that only block projectiles vs solid structures that take longer to construct.[/QUOTE]
agree that both of those ideas are interesting and suggested them both, previously.

(Humate) #187

To my previous suggestion, I think it might be interesting to consider an alternate firing-mode hand-held shield projector (projects in front of the class while the weapon is out, ‘firing’ and has ‘ammo’ [see ut2k4 shield gun but scaled up]) to make the mechanic more useful for the attacking team.

As long as it sits on its own weapon bank, and theres a speed penalty when its activated - thats fine.
Oh and it doesnt protect against spam.

And its blue.

(tokamak) #188

What does everyone think about killstreaks?

Not like COD where you get a reward that is disconnected from your skill every five or so kills.

I mean like little advantages that accumulate up to a maximum with every kill you make. Think of a sniper upgrade that gives less sway, a soldier (or light weapon tree) with faster reloads every kill, a field ops with faster air response, all increasing with every kill (up to a limit). Or other stuff that accumulates like a medic getting his killstreak times 5hp for every revive he makes.

These are all supposed to be coming from upgrades and all the accumulated advantages reset upon respawn.

What this achieves is that, if players chose to, they can pick upgrades that have more potency but that they need to work for. This further deepens the role of a class but it also really adds weight to staying alive. Having your growable upgrade maxed out after a killing spree should be a real thrill because of the big benefit but it’s also a significant loss if you lose it because of dying.

It also really allows for more options according to playstyle. If you play a more risky role, something like a lemming (which all in all, could be deemed a valid playstyle) then you don’t want these upgrades. If you’re not fully experienced and simply die a lot then you want upgrades that help you stay alive rather than ones that penalise you for dying.

But all in all I think it adds heaps of tension and dynamic to a shooter.

(Humate) #189

Dont need them.

(.Chris.) #190

I’d prefer those ideas to xp unlocks, least they reset after death, would encourage teamwork to a point, the medic idea for example, want to be more effective rambo medic? revive some team mates and gain extra health, little things like that would be nice in my opinion and as he said, they would have a limit, I like the idea. Need a different name than killstreaks as that name alone conjures up horrid thoughts :slight_smile: skillstreaks! I’m sure they sound different enough to not be confused…

(tokamak) #191

You can call them ‘sprees’. The reason why I think they can’t be the sole way of making unlocks manifest themselves is that on average players are simply dying too often to make these things noticeable. These things are a carrot giving players reason to try their hardest to keep themselves and others to stay alive (and I suppose killing opponents becomes more rewarding as well as you take their benefit away from them).

They’re especially nice for cautious and experienced players but I wouldn’t want to see more risky or lower-level styles of play become invalidated. Unlocks of different kinds allow multiple players with multiple competencies to play in the same server. There should be ‘newbie’ upgrades that make basic stuff easier, ‘advanced’ upgrades that enhance your efficiency (like lower spread or more complicated handlings) and then there’s the ‘sprees’ for players who are able to grow them over time by lasting through multiple fights.

(DarkangelUK) #192

Would you have them perm till next death, on a cool down/time period or limited usage until used up? Halo 4 has ‘sprees’ as it were, your call downs are usually a mixture of beefed weapon, ammo/grenades or a certainly ability. The abilities can be used until death, the weapon has limited ammo but gets dropped if you die and someone else can grab it, and well grenades are grenades.

(tokamak) #193

Until respawn. That way revives have more merit as well.

I don’t like the idea of consuming your reward either, that defeats the point of staying alive. That’s what COD and Halo seem to do. I think the best example here is TF2’s Eyelander which is just about the only reason I still play TF2, it’s just addicting.

(tangoliber) #194

I don’t like the idea of killstreaks…it doesn’t work with the logic of the game. If we are hacking an objective site, then I want to worry about controlling the objective area and getting the job done. If someone is getting a lot of kills without dying, then that should already have an effect on his teams ability to control the site. If he is off on some meaningless place in the map getting a killstreak, then it should rightfully have no effect.

(Apples) #195

Killstreak is imo a bad idea in a team based objective game, in TDM or cap the flag maybe, but in objective you sometimes have to respawn for ammo or anything else, and staying alive isnt fundamentaly allways the best option to finish the attack as quickly as possible.

As to invent a class, I really think the 5 we got are pretty neat for now, I would maybe seperate the enginers between construction specialists and vehicles specialists but it would really depend on the scale / pace / general direction of the game.

Vehicles specialists would be able to custom their vehicles with more damage per round, quick reload and more defense, optical camo etc etc, while construction specialists would be usefull inside with mines and more constructible / destructible walls, barbels, antitank debris on the ground, different kind of traps, ideas can be infinite.

I think more interaction with the map should be a good thing, but as I allways said, if the core is not good, anything you put in a game is a waste.

(DarkangelUK) #196

Yeah tbh I don’t think it has it’s place in objective shooters

(tokamak) #197

So you dislike it because it would sometimes make the choice of giving up your life too difficult? That’s exactly what I wanted to achieve!

(maggol) #198

New Class for Team Based Shooter

Teacher
Role: Teach newb for the gameplay
Teach pro some manners for the newbie

(montheponies) #199

However this could/would reward a more cautious/camping/boring playstyle - potentially…

I think ‘sprees’ or rewards could be useful as long as they only provided some secondary benefits, such as faster reload, faster recharge on medpacks, greater stamina etc. Avoiding primary benefits like health, damage, recoil or spread. Last thing you need is a super sniper racking up kills and getting deadlier as a result of his camptastic behaviour, which normally is opposite to the team objective (though not always).

Basically all of these things run the risk of falling foul of the law of unintended consequences - no sooner have you created a reward than someone is exploiting it to the max.

Still say the character class question needs to be in the context of a the proposed game world - folk talking about vehicle specialists, how would that have fitted in RTCW, WET or Brink?

(tokamak) #200

To me personally the most boring kind of play is repeated head on rushes on an objective. As for camping, we’re still talking about one team running against the clock and trying to complete that final objective, I don’t think camping is going to do a whole lot for them.

Still, that does bring us to a second point and that’s that sprees may favour the defending team. I’d like to see some statistics on that. The difference in the average K/D of a defender and an attacker (per map). I’m sure SD has such info.