@WatchAsILead said:
The only reason you feel like CMM is essentially ranked is because you get paired with players that are your skill.
YEES PLEASE! MAKE IT HAPPEN!
I normally don’t play Obj, but I tried new CMM and every game felt like racing with cripples.
Casual gaming = Easy gaming for you (…)
Waiting 5-10 (or more) minutes for a game is not casual. Playing 2-3 man vs whole enemy team for 5 minutes is not casual. If You want to suffer, there is ranked for that.
@doxjq said:
Stopwatch is being removed from the server browser? Really?
We riot. Nay, we gather budgets to travel to London, and riot right in front of SD’s door. Server Browser is the last standing game mode that I enjoy, and removing casual stopwatch is just maddening.
@doxjq said:
Stopwatch is being removed from the server browser? Really?
I don’t think I’ve heard any confirmation from the devs, or anyone in contact with the devs. People have just been speculating it because of how few SW servers there are, among other reasons.
I wouldn’t worry though. It’s doubtful they’d remove it. Even for SD, it’s a bit much
Honestly, if they remove SW servers as well I think I’ll gradually lose interest or stop playing completely - and that saddens me to say because I love DB. I’m not the most experienced veteran out there by any means, but I’m nearing level 80 if I combine levels from my old account when the game was still new and the one I’ve used since coming back nearly a year ago. DB is pretty much the only thing I play lately and removing Exec (which I acknowledge was never central to their vision of the game) and SW would take away from the competitive aspect of the game too much for me. That would be 90+% of playing time wiped out within a few months and I don’t know what I’d do aside from inactive ranked play. Please, ffs SD, don’t do that.
@ImSploosh said:
CMM and the removal of Execution killed the game for me. I agree with almost everything except Javelin. I find her to be fairly balanced overall, except that OP ammo ability. Her rocket isn’t as bad as everyone thought. A small tweak or two might help, but honestly, she’s fine as is. I find myself dying to her rocket very rarely.
Yeah…it was sad but now it’s starting to get annoying.
Basically people start crying like little babies every time I merc gets a special ability that can damage/kill people.
Sparks was released and it took forever but the Revivr was nerfed (The damage justified but the healing was kinda stupid), Stoker was released and everyone started crying and he got nerfed from which he still this day is fighting to recover from, and now Jav…omg you got killed by a random explosive…something that has happened a million times before Javelin was even released. Get over it.
@WatchAsILead said:
@ImSploosh said:
@WatchAsILead said:
The way you word this post you make it seem like CMM ruins the whole game for you:1.) People still leave server browser matches lol, so whether a player leaves in server browser or CMM you’re still screwed for 3-5 minutes waiting for someone to backfill that spot.
2.) Javelin is getting a nerf so cool your jets
3.) CMM will put you in games faster when the player base gets bigger when more people start using it. and even in CSGO or PUBG, a game with 200,000+ Players it still takes 1-2 minutes to get in game
4.) Its considered casual and theres no impact on whether you win or lose. If you dont like the balance of a CMM match you dont have to stay, leave and someone will fill your spot.
5.) Maybe you feel like its a mini ranked match because you’re actually getting pair with people your skill level. So now you feel like you actually have to try instead of pub stomping noobs.
It HAS ruined the game for a lot of people. There’s just too many issues with it and it doesn’t fit DB. We don’t have, and probably never will, a massive playerbase. Also, it’s just not casual. It’s essentially Ranked without rewards. Just because I’m as good as a no-life, tryharding 24/7 dude doesn’t mean I want to play like that all of the time (hence ranked). The casual, fun aspect isn’t there in CMM.
Unfortunately, there’s also other issues with it like having only 6v6 servers, no option to select sub-region (U.S. East or West) which makes it unplayable, and the wait. There’s more, just can’t think of it at the moment. I’d have to play it again lol
But theres no reason why it should ruin the game for anyone. The only reason you feel like CMM is essentially ranked is because you get paired with players that are your skill. What it seems like you want is an all access pass to play with people worse than you so theres no competition, so you can sit at the top of the scoreboard without even trying.
Casual gaming = Easy gaming for you and thats not how it works, nor how it should work. If you want to pub stomp noobs all day then you might as well play with bots or some PVE game.
Not what I’m saying. I don’t enjoy stomping. I like to have fun and not try hard every single game. It’s more enjoyable to mess around, deliver some nice teabags, play whatever merc you desire, and play the game with people that will actually chat. CMM doesn’t really allow for this (at least not in the “balanced” games I played). 6v6 makes it much more tedious and even boring. The people I end up playing against won’t even have an honorable melee fight. They also won’t say a word in a match. Then, when I finally enter a good lobby, it only lasts one game because unfortunately, CMM doesn’t allow continuous lobbies. I’ve never played a FPS that does this. Big names like CoD, CS:GO, Battlefield, they all allow you to keep playing with the same people.
Casual gaming is more about relaxing. Casual matches shouldn’t play the same as competitive.
@Sorotia said:
@ImSploosh said:
CMM and the removal of Execution killed the game for me. I agree with almost everything except Javelin. I find her to be fairly balanced overall, except that OP ammo ability. Her rocket isn’t as bad as everyone thought. A small tweak or two might help, but honestly, she’s fine as is. I find myself dying to her rocket very rarely.Yeah…it was sad but now it’s starting to get annoying.
Basically people start crying like little babies every time I merc gets a special ability that can damage/kill people.
Sparks was released and it took forever but the Revivr was nerfed (The damage justified but the healing was kinda stupid), Stoker was released and everyone started crying and he got nerfed from which he still this day is fighting to recover from, and now Jav…omg you got killed by a random explosive…something that has happened a million times before Javelin was even released. Get over it.
Frag grenades don’t instagib and have a long cook time with a fairly short effective range. Nader’s grenades do little damage with little AoE and don’t one-shot mercs, they’re easy to avoid for anyone who is decently skilled. Airstrikes, lasers and artillery all have very obvious markers, along with delays and predictable patterns. Sticky bombs can’t one-hit most mercs, they’re supposed to be used along side weapons, not replace weapons.
Javelin’s rocket however, can instantly gib most mercs from full health, pretty much anywhere in the map, even outside of her visible range. Her charge time is minuscule at best, and the rocket has such a large AoE that it’s extremely hard to avoid, especially if the javelin just charges behind a corner and pops out.
Complaining too much sucks, SD has gone overboard on a lot of mercs, but they’ve also done well on a lot of others. They’ve reworked mercs to make abilities less about guaranteed kills, and more about an actual reflection of the person’s skill. Abilities that are used along side weapons and give the enemy a chance at fighting back. That is the problem with javelin, she gives no chance for a player to fight back. No matter how good that player is or how hard they try, a decent javelin can not only easily kill them, but also instantly gib them.
Other mercs like fragger take perfect timing. Mercs like fletcher and nader take perfect aim. However, javelin takes very little skill. If you honestly can’t see that, go to any public match and just wait for some new player to switch to Javelin, and watch how easily the worst player climbs to the top of the scoreboard.
TL;DR, abilities that can kill aren’t an issue, it’s when they take little to no skill to accomplish, and don’t allow for the enemy to fight back, that the problem arises. Javelin does both, just look at the average pub javelin player.
To all the people who say CMM takes 3-5 mins to find a game. Where are you from (NA?) I play in EU and I don’t think I have ever had to wait much longer than 1 min.
@n-x said:
To all the people who say CMM takes 3-5 mins to find a game. Where are you from (NA?) I play in EU and I don’t think I have ever had to wait much longer than 1 min.
maybe it depends on skill levels? i typically have to wait 4min+
The moment they remove the server browser is when I quit.
I am not interested in match making, period, I do not have time to wait 5 mins for the game to find me a match.
Blocking OBJ behind CMM was the most stupid idea someone had at SD. Ever. And they had plenty of stupid ideas. Like Competitive missions, Execution or Rogue en Vogue boosters that were working as intended.
And if the future means: SW ranked only and OBJ CMM only, a lot of people will be mad. Rightyfully though.
Imo just remove that stupid system again. It has no advantage compared to old quickplay and only disadvantages.
For me the issue is that we already HAVE a match making system, and nobody wanted to play it. And yet, THE EXACT SAME COMPLAINTS ARE COMING IN, matches being unbalanced, rolls, etc, the system is doing it’s job, the people just do not know how to play properly.
you keep pushing this point : matches are never balanced , people are just whining
that might be true, but its also true that the first 3-4 min can tell who is gonna win the whole thing
there are virtually no comeback mechanics in DB
If I remember correctly, in the original “CMM is coming” video Shoe said that CMM will start with objective while stopwatch will remain in server browser only until a later date when it’s added to CMM as well. I may be wrong but I’m pretty sure they stated that they want to get everything on CMM at some point.
@Szakalot said:
you keep pushing this point : matches are never balanced , people are just whiningthat might be true, but its also true that the first 3-4 min can tell who is gonna win the whole thing
there are virtually no comeback mechanics in DB
Then that’s an issue with counter play and map design, not match making
But instead of focusing on those things we are getting all this talk about Casual when we already had Ranked. It’s just a cycle of the same issues as before.
Hence the irritation
@Nail said:
lol, I’ve been reading posts for over 3 years that all say, “this 'n that” will kill DB, it hasn’t and won’t. The people building this game know what they’re doing.
And how many players have they gained overall? The game averages the same amount of players as it did when I started playing over 2 years ago. Itll average under 5k players concurrent for the life of this game. I don’t expect it to grow past that. Dirty Bomb is what it is. People tried it, most leave…and some stay. Itll never be a widely played shooter like TF2, COD, BF, Overwatch, Rainbow Six, etc.
Seriously…the game hit Steam two years ago…averaged 13k players for how long? A week? And then dropped off hard over that following month. Now the game averages around 2 to 4 thousands players depending on the whether a new maps or merc is released. Some veterans come back for like a week or so, then leave again.
Ive given up thinking this game will take off.
And removing features is NOT how you grow a game. (removing 8v8, removing Execution, Removing maps, removing Objective and eventually Stopwatch from server browser)
People keep telling me the game will grow. Meanwhile on a Saturday afternoon, it takes me 15 freaking minutes to get into a competitive ranked game. On a Saturday in the USA. That says a lot.
And when loyal players who enjoy the game share their displeasure, we have the “dev-defenders” dismiss them by saying “we’ve heard you guys say DB will die before…same ole story”. Well…DB isn’t dying…but it surely hasn’t grown much, if at all in 2 years of being on Steam. Growth is primarily measured in concurrent player base…but tbh…I expect this game to have gone the way of Brink within a few years. Sad but, that’s what I believe.
I’ve never seen a game deliberately remove its most popular mode before.
CMM is lameish & too similar to ranked & should be radically reconsidered. But at least it’s a complicated issue with multiple points of view that have to be taken into account. A lot of people seem to prefer CMM, or at least play it. There’s going to be real difference of opinion there.
Removing objective servers is something else. When significant numbers of players are joining matches across 2 oceans with 200+ ping just in order to play the game mode you went out of your way to remove… That’s a bold move. Trying to improve your new mode that may or may not be successful and popular by removing a mode that is definitely successful & popular just doesn’t seem like good business to me. If you want people to play CMM then give them highly rewarding CMM quests. Deleting their favorite thing should be an absolute last resort. Actually, deleting the most popular mode should probably never be done in almost any circumstance, even if the fate CMM totally depended on it. Even if you are convinced 8v8 and 7v7 are inferior modes for a fistfull of reasons, the fact that those modes are popular means something important. Prepatch, 75% or so of games played were objective 7v7 and 8v8. By player choice. That’s a lot of feedback to discount.
…
A big picture problem with CMM is that it isn’t realistic. It only makes any sense if the matches are pretty finely balanced, but that’s not very likely to happen in a game where a better player wins almost all the duels and ends up doing 3x the kills. Actually, the balance in CMM can be about as bad as the balance in server browser. Even though the only incentive for server browser balance is a desire for fair play, if its a hopeless stomp usually people shuffle. CMM is a hopeless stomp sometimes (though definitely less often), but you can’t do anything about it except wait to surrender. 4 minutes in Q, 4 minutes getting stomped or stomping, surrender. It’s such a negative experience that the positive experience of an unusually close and competitive game the match before is overwhelmed. Why on earth would I play this over server browser stopwatch? Why would I play this over ranked?
It just doesn’t fit and it’s not much fun, at least outside of queing as a party and bulldozing people. Some of that’s the more competitive and intense (in the tryhard, burst rifles galore sense) gameplay without the ranked rewards, but a lot of it is just losing the server lobby. Even very tough server browser matches have a more relaxed feel because of the social chat element in a persistent lobby. Getting mowed down in spawn by a silent squad of guys you won’t see again feels especially draining. And ironically, mowing down a lobby of anons you never see again is also kind of hollow. CMM matches can sometimes feel both competitive and empty. In addition to unrewarding. Like high MMR Overwatch QM, but without play of the game.
Dirtybomb would’ve been definitely improved if casual MMR was taken into account for server browser team balance, and there are lots of ways that could’ve been done. The team building algorithm could’ve been improved. The incentive to shuffle in a stomp could’ve been improved. The balance post shuffle could’ve been improved. Frankly, shuffling a bunch of the server browser pop into ranked instead could’ve singlehandedly revivified the mode. We might’ve had 3 healthy and distinctive gametypes. As is we have 1, maybe 2. There were lots of relatively safe approaches to improving existing game modes.
Instead, SD took a giant risk that majorly reduced many players enjoyment of the game. Without even running it by the community. If you don’t like CMM, and if you’re any good you probably don’t because CMM gameplay at above average MMR is basically soloq ranked with no rewards & 5 minute que instead of 15, then this patch reduced the number of game modes you play from 3 to 1. Ostensibly to improve new player experience. Removing execute I get. DB’s gameplay never shined in execute, and it was never very popular. Objective mode 7v7 on the other hand was the premier mode. Objective >>> Stopwatch unless the teams are very balanced. So now server browsers are filled with people playing a worse (for casual play) / stompier game mode on the back of this. With stopwatch stompy games take longer to end. Half of them take 20 minutes(!). You see less map variety over a play session. Objective is a way better casual mode, and now it’s gone because SD is worried that we’d play it instead of CMM if given the choice. Can’t argue with them there.
The game, at least the server browser part of it, is significantly worse than it was 1 patch ago.
Maybe noobies are having a much better time with this than they did with the low level servers. I hope so, because I’m definitely not.
@watsyurdeal said:
the system is doing it’s job, the people just do not know how to play properly.
How would you play a system properly that automatically queues you with people that should be as good or bad as you are?
If I play bad, the system has to see it and calculate it, and queue me with worse people in the next games.
If I wrecked the people, ended up topscoring by far, I should go into a bracked with people who did the same in their last matches.
There is nothing to play properly here. I play as I can, the game has to care for the balance.
That’s the premise of this gamemode.
That’s how it definitely works for other games. And that#s now it definitely worked for games 10 years ago.
And DBs “matchmaking” doesn’t do that. Yesterday I played against a founder with 2.5K hours. He had triple the score of anyone else. Today I queued in CMM and met him again. He did 3x the points. I’m curious why someone who is “3x as good as other people in his matches” still gets queued with the same people in the same bracket.