Closed Beta Update V43239 (20th Feb 2015)

[INF3RN0]

I played a MM round against 5 auras on Trainyard with all 5 stations spread around lol… hardest part was the gibbing. Just started tossing nades and we won . Plenty of proxy stacks as well. I mean I get it that proxy/aura can give an incapable player a fighting chance, but when there’s multiple lights it’s easy farm really as long as you keep your distance and remove their abilities from the equation. I feel like it’s a bit exaggerated at this point because it’s not like a light merc is even faster than anyone in ET/Quake.

[Zarlor]

Well, I miss playing already! I had a lot of good games and I think the new people were (mostly) having fun and playing well and using the voice chat and working as a team.

I menu screens have changed for the better, but I’d still like to activate my booster cards when looking at the merc and unlocked cards pre-match time if possible. Also, think there is far too much sitting there waiting for the match to start. It feels like when one timer runs out another begins before I can get into the match and start playing… Start the action FASTER! While I disliked not being able to use the server browser at all times during this last test, it took the sting out of losing when at the end of every round we were all kicked out and dumped back to finding another random server to play on with another random mix of people. When you stay on the same server with the same winning team you could end up making the other team rage quit. People usually stuck out the one map to finish it, knowing it’d be over soon enough.

[BioSnark]

Another solution is to increase all cooldowns for a merc type based on how many mercs there are.

A system that was in ETQW, IIRC.

[light_sh4v0r]

Not by default. It was added in the ‘competition mod’ that SD provided after release. Noone used it but this feature among others was adopted in promod.

[prophett]

I wish this feature was enforced on pubs.

[PixelTwitch]

The problem with enforcing this kind of rule is that it really screws over the player that picked a Merc at the start of a round with the intention of playing that Merc for the whole match. Specially if this happens to Naders for instance or skyhammers. Why should I be punished because someone decides to switch to the same Merc I am using half way though a match?

[Szakalot]

cooldown penalties are not that punishing to gameplay, definitely don’t want ‘max 2 mercs of each type’ ways of solving this

[BAMFana]

Agreed, PixelTwitch.

I think we should distinguish between matchmaking and non-matchmaking in this regard (I also think matchmaking should be exclusively stopwatch mode and non-matchmaking exclusively objective mode).

Matchmaking should have some sort of drafting mechanic. For the time being there are not enough mercs, but once there are, each team should only be able to field one of each merc at any one time. Until a significant number of mercs are available, the drafting mechanic should just be something akin to Dota 2 Allpick – ie. pick any merc, first one to pick gets priority.

In non-matchmaking (server browser) it’s anything goes as far as I’m concerned. Keep the three pre-selected mercs limit, but if you want to have 8 auras on one team, then that’s fair game. This is supposed to be the arena for messing about anyways.

[spookify]

This game needs to be talked about in all these different ways that people are describing:

Match Making = OBJ
Match Making = SW

Browser= OBJ
Browser= SW

Maps, Gameplay, Server settings (FF and so on), Objectives, gun, balance and much more.

I still think there needs to be a bigger difference between SW and OBJ play… They are basically the same thing and the added time in OBJ mode is so random it takes away progression (Feeling).

Was Match Making Objective Mode Fun? IMO No it was to random…
Start a Game and have a 50% Change to either be on Attackers or Defense!!! That is a fundamental flaw on OBJ mode already. Not having a balanced OBJ mode will be its down fall. People will /quit if they are put on attacks 2 in a row or defenders 3 in a row. Is OBJ going to be ranked! I hope not… All other games seemed to have solved this problem in OBJ mode except DB.

All other games allow you to play each side in someway or the map is balanced and gameplay is equal.

CS:GO Ranked you get to play OBJ both sides…
LOL the map is equal and so is game play. No need to switch. (I do like bottom better )
BF is a little odd it mix’s and matches this in comp. Maps are (somewhat) balanced but OBJ mode is best of 3 and teams can pick sides and then flip.
Wasnt COD comp also bomb plants? and switching sides and best of.

One of the biggest thing in DB right now is luck of timing. Both in SW and OBJ mode if you do not hit your spawn right/wrong you basically loss an entire stage of the map. What is epic about games like DB or ET or QW and others is the ability to recap that stage of the map up-until dyno is blown or maybe it is always open like ET Radar and the flag room.

Two Things:
#1) It is very hard to recap a stage in DB - Example Terminal! I have seen a few lucky defuses after forward spawn is grabed by attackers but maybe only twice the forward spawn was recapped its-self.
#2) Recapping is a huge part in SW game mode. This pushed the enemy back and wastes 20 seconds of their next attack. DB does not have any of this extra game play. Maps are linear and it PUSH PUSH PUSH until you finally break through or NOT. SW on attackers is just banging your head against the wall until you either break the wall or you pass out.

[amazinglarry]

I enjoyed and preferred the ‘Competition MM’ during this last round to the Casual browser. I got into games quickly and for the most part the teams were pretty even. There were only a few games we had where one team just flat out annihilated the other.

I wasn’t a fan of the leavers during the lobby though, and those players not being replaced. The 5v5 overall was fun, but it was a pretty big deal with one dropped with no replacement. It felt wrong to continue holding off a team that was down a player and was already maybe at a disadvantage at the beginning of the match. Obviously no one was unable to swap too, to even it out. I imagine those are issues that are being looked, as this was obviously a specific test to gauge MM.

Also I found myself on the Defending team like 80% of the time which was a little tiresome after a while. Maybe a preferences profile would be cool… but I don’t pretend to know anything that goes into MM algorithms.

[Glottis-3D]

[QUOTE=amazinglarry;521674]I enjoyed and preferred the ‘Competition MM’ during this last round to the Casual browser. I got into games quickly and for the most part the teams were pretty even. There were only a few games we had where one team just flat out annihilated the other.

I wasn’t a fan of the leavers during the lobby though, and those players not being replaced. The 5v5 overall was fun, but it was a pretty big deal with one dropped with no replacement. It felt wrong to continue holding off a team that was down a player and was already maybe at a disadvantage at the beginning of the match. Obviously no one was unable to swap too, to even it out. I imagine those are issues that are being looked, as this was obviously a specific test to gauge MM.

Also I found myself on the Defending team like 80% of the time which was a little tiresome after a while. Maybe a preferences profile would be cool… but I don’t pretend to know anything that goes into MM algorithms.[/QUOTE]
good points!
but in Stopwatch you will have to both attack and defend. so preference will work only for OBJ

[spookify]

And hopefully OBJ is changed a little bit to accompany these feelings and just the over all lackluster play mode.

SW will be the winner take all Ranked play mode. There shouldnt even be an OBJ MM mode! Unless its casual MM…

[ToonBE]

Something needs to be done with the aura station / shotgun / light fast merc combo.

Because you play slow fragger potty:p I don’t agree!

[ToonBE]

[QUOTE=PixelTwitch;521541]

This is a prime example of something that happened far too frequently in the last beta test…[/QUOTE]

Proxy has 90hp… She is easily downed… She earns a lot of XP because it is the obj merc and she can get a looot of assists. If you can aim a little you can get a good amount of kills aswell.

Proxy is only op in the hands of an experienced player, but isnt fragger aswell?

Could be I am being biased… I realy enjoyed playing proxy: fast, defensive mines, deadly and obj orientated. This merc makes the difference!

[Glottis-3D]

[QUOTE=ToonBE;521681]Proxy has 90hp… She is easily downed… She earns a lot of XP because it is the obj merc and she can get a looot of assists. If you can aim a little you can get a good amount of kills aswell.

Proxy is only op in the hands of an experienced player, but isnt fragger aswell?

Could be I am being biased… I realy enjoyed playing proxy: fast, defensive mines, deadly and obj orientated. This merc makes the difference![/QUOTE]

proxy is great. best merc imho.
shotgun or SMG - i do not care. i even prefer SMG more.

[spookify]

Proxy is not easily downed! I rarely died as her in the MM test. She was to fast and to small. I was stomping people and also doing objectives in crazy times… In the hands of a seasons vet or pro shes way OP.

And if you look at it the other way where i am fragger or saw or someone she is again Not easily downed when going against a good proxy. I was shooting hit 45 - 48% and proxys were still getting into my body and killing me.

If this next test SD takes out shotguns and just lets us shoot we might learn something. No proxy or aura! Maybe allow flether but get rid of these two op mercs and then we can see what people qq about. If we qq about flethers shotgun we might have a problem…

[Szakalot]

[QUOTE=spookify;521686]Proxy is not easily downed! I rarely died as her in the MM test. She was to fast and to small. I was stomping people and also doing objectives in crazy times… In the hands of a seasons vet or pro shes way OP.

And if you look at it the other way where i am fragger or saw or someone she is again Not easily downed when going against a good proxy. I was shooting hit 45 - 48% and proxys were still getting into my body and killing me.[/quote]

She isn’t easily downed when coming out of nowhere shotgun blazing, but if you know where she is before she comes into view, she is dead. What FOV are you playing at?

If this next test SD takes out shotguns and just lets us shoot we might learn something. No proxy or aura! Maybe allow flether but get rid of these two op mercs and then we can see what people qq about. If we qq about flethers shotgun we might have a problem…

All the AOE mercs are a beatiful counter to proxy. Watch them trying to dodge EXPLOSIONS :armadillochase:

[spookify]

She isn’t easily downed when coming out of nowhere shotgun blazing, but if you know where she is before she comes into view, she is dead. What FOV are you playing at?

Are you serious? Good players will give you a very limited view of a proxy. They know she is dead if she is in the open and huge corners and wall jump like crazy. She is the ultimate back rager and even if she dies she is quickly back in the fight because of her speed from spawn to the objective. Doesnt matter what FOV I use I am not changing it.

We can look at Proxy on a per map basis if people would like.

MM Test Maps
Attacking:

Terminal - This is where she is most OP. Very Fast plants with the mechanic perk and the ability to wall jump over the first wall very easy and protect the dyno from up to. Then while behind have the last to Objectives planted even before the team can spawn back.

White Chapel - She is a little less op because of the open spaces. She can get behind you but the limited range of the shotgun and the tight defense. Last stage however she can plant mines right below the enemy spawn ramp and has the speed to carry the obj to the building very quickly.

Train - Half OP - First stage attacking she can easily ninja build the door and then plant and set mines before people are even set. Second stage is the same thing. Gates fall and dyno is planted, mine mine and go protect it. Last stage is open an travel distance is a little longer for her to be effective.

Attacking Conclusion during this last MM test is that proxy is a must have on All of Terminal and at least the first two stages of Train. “IF” the mechanic perk was only given to NON-Engys I thing that would be the best!!! The speed and small hit boxes make it very easy to get behind the enemy and elude them. Its also easy to get up in their face especially in a smaller linear map. The shotgun combined with everything I just said makes her OP in the situations where you would use her.

All the AOE mercs are a beatiful counter to proxy. Watch them trying to dodge EXPLOSIONS :armadillochase:

I never had a problem with this… Arty airstrikes are useless against her and so was Skyhammers Airstrike. Play smart and run away from the dot and line on the ground. I do not think I died once from either of their

MM Test Maps
Defending:

Terminal - Again super OP on defending especially second stage. She (with the mechanic perk) defuse the dynos in no time

White Chapel - Again Muh on this map because of how open it is and the range at which fights take place.

Train - Half OP - Ability to set mines and again defuse the dyno super fast makes her a must have the first two stages.

Defending Conclusion during this last MM test - She is a little less noticeable except on terminal defense. The range, teamwork and the inability to crossfire really hurt her. People in MM and ranks are not going to be rambo’ing with her on defence so she is slightly less op then attacking.

[Szakalot]

Are you serious? Good players will give you a very limited view of a proxy. They know she is dead if she is in the open and huge corners and wall jump like crazy. She is the ultimate back rager and even if she dies she is quickly back in the fight because of her speed from spawn to the objective. Doesnt matter what FOV I use I am not changing it.

Some nice points, I can definitely agree that the speed of light mercs gives them an edge when it comes to completing their objectives (proxy = main objectives, aura = reviving everyone). However:
a) in MM situations people will coordinate better, and light mercs excel in surprise 1on1s, but scale badly when fighting under a haze of bullets
b) once players know the maps at least as well as back in the pre-steam times, backraging will be harder to pull off

As far as AOE, i was referring to Stoker,Nader,Fletcher in particular. Direct molotov/nade/sticky hits are one-hit-kills. Also the sniper rifle that one-bodyshots light mercs. I imagine Rhino in chokes will be impossible to beat as well.

I think it will be good to wait and see how the meta turns out. In the last build the mobility looked quite OP cause the only merc that could one-shot a light was a fragger with a nade. Once molotovs, and rains of nades start flying in, I think we will see people gravitate away from the light mercs. You will probably still see it regularly on comp due to fast plants/defuse, but then you can see having one light merc as important as having at least one ammo giver, and one medic.

[ToonBE]

Isnt it the point that proxy is very good at doing obj play? She is an engy… Fast at the spot and fast plant/defuse/deliver

It seems a bit like the seasoned fragger players are mad because they were having a hard time vs fast and small proxy