Climbing over with teamwork

(BrigandSk(A)) #1

Aka human ladder in fps games:

Heavy body types should be able to help each other to climb over to places where alone they cannot. Obviously this can only happen with 2 players (max).

How could this be done in the controls:

The play that is going to help the other going up, stands close to the target wall facing with his back to the wall and holds the smart button while the other player runs towards him and climbs over him with the smart button while the helper is still holding smart button.

Conclusion:

This gives heavy arch types more freedom and new way of getting teamwork points if the player helped achieves something good for the team by profiting the high ground advantage.
Parkour with teamwork gets implemented in Brink.

Perhaps all classes can use this tactic, since its about getting the 1st foot on the crossed hands of the helper and the 2nd foot on his shoulder, it probably is faster than pushing my self up by pushing back the wall to gain momentum to grab to the edged.
So this might be another way of doing the same thing with alone but slightly faster than alone, since its sort of a ladder and not a vertical climb.

Note:

Heavies can only climb 1 level above they normally can, while they can only be helped by another heavy body type. They heavy body player can help the others, the medium can help mediums and lights and the light can only help lights (this might change the playable areas of all maps, that’s why I said just heavy body types can do this)

I wish I had suggested this way sooner . . . sorry

This idea was probably brainstormed early on Brink development and got chewed up and spit out . . .

(Nail) #2

enable z shove for heavies will make mediums and lights cry for it, better to leave it out imo

(BrigandSk(A)) #3

you’re right, this is too late to get implement but we never know . . .

It certainly should be available for every1 and it surely changes the playable areas of all maps because lights will help lights get higher.

(Humate) #4

Not possible, from what I know. The anti collision thing prevents that sort of stuff.

(Jess Alon) #5

That’s true. You can run through your teammates. It would turn into this annoying contextual nightmare.

(Apples) #6

Oh btw, ff on + anticollision can bring some epic annoying moment… Like one teammate pass thru you when you are dropping a nade/rocket/ anything with splash…

Ontopic : it would add another level of complexity on the map’s layout because heavies will now have access to more space, can break many things IMO. Still a nice idea, but if a game is too complex the fun fade away to me.

Peace

(DoHo) #7

Sounds a bit too complicated and clunky for a fast paced shooter.

(.Chris.) #8

[QUOTE=BrigandSk(A);257832]you’re right, this is too late to get implement but we never know . . .

It certainly should be available for every1 and it surely changes the playable areas of all maps because lights will help lights get higher.[/QUOTE]

You do realise the maps are designed so that lights have access to the higher areas that the others cannot reach and beyond that there is nothing else?

It will not change the playable areas of the maps because they are no extra routes that no body type can access, unless they made such areas and plan to release an anorexic body type in a future DLC to take advantage of these areas.

(Cankor) #9

[QUOTE=Apples;257847]Oh btw, ff on + anticollision can bring some epic annoying moment… Like one teammate pass thru you when you are dropping a nade/rocket/ anything with splash…
Peace[/QUOTE]

Good point. I don’t really understand this can pass through people thing (obviously don’t play TF2), I guess it is just cause griefers will block in members of your own team?

I am guess you don’t pass through the enemy though (sounds like if you have smart pressed you automatically melee them, but of you don’t I guess you bounce off?)

And can you run through an enemy turret?

(Humate) #10

Yeah, I would say its mainly there because SD want FF to be off by default for the new fish they are trying to catch.

As far as the details of anti collision:

But we emulate this basic ability of a human being’s natural movement by letting teammates walk through each other. Note you can’t walk through enemies… an enemy is a wall, and you’re best off smacking him down with one of your [censored because we haven’t revealed this feature yet] if you get that close

However, there’s “sort of” collision with teammates as well. Specifically, there’s a slight repulsion that happens when someone tries to move through someone else that causes the mover to kind of do a slight shimmy. This repulsion also prevents players from literally standing inside each other (and thereby letting a little guy hide “inside” a big guy). Players are naturally moved away from each other, but it’s always the player who initiated the collision (so again, you can’t be shoved away from something you’re trying to do, by some dickwad, nor can some dickwad prevent you from going where you want to go).

(LyndonL) #11

Yes, griefers (or inept people) can block small gaps or halls or doors etc etc and it can be very frustrating. The passing through thing is great. Basically if you keep the momentum up it slightly veers you around the player as you run past them (as in slightly pushes you left or right depending on what side of them you pass) and it’s barely noticeable. If you were to stop on them it very slowly/visibly pushes you away from them.

Typically in games with this (from memory) you don’t pass through, no. You don’t bounce off per se, moreso just stop dead as if running into a wall.

EDIT: Beat me to it :slight_smile:

(.Chris.) #12

Surely adding shove would have sufficed.

(Damblo) #13

Really!? For consoles 2?

I freaking hated get stuck then dieing on games like cod. One of the reasons why i dont play cod games or any others similar.

(light_sh4v0r) #14

You have no idea how much fun I had shoving flyerdroning infiltrators off cliffs etc :smiley:

(Bezzy) #15

[QUOTE=BrigandSk(A);257827]

This idea was probably brainstormed early on Brink development and got chewed up and spit out . . .[/QUOTE]

Yep. Early on we wanted to see if there was a way to “legitimize” stacking from WolfET. It kind of broke some maps, but it was a naturally emergent strategy that, if you’re going to have it, is worth incorporating in an intentional way (i.e. places you can stack which give some benefit, but aren’t totally game breaking).

We also considered a way to allow players to pull up other players. We didn’t want to go the route of Army of Two on those things (big animations which feel like they take you out of the game).

For the “pushing up”, we prototyped a few things, where the bottom guy just has to crouch, and effectively becomes a bounce pad, but we couldn’t figure out a way to do it which wouldn’t irritate the croucher (i.e. they’re shooting, and people are potentially running right at him, getting in his line of fire, or forcing an unwanted state on him). Plus, with the tighter level design, we just wanted to avoid people getting clunged up in doorways, which also solved any problems of escaping the level via stacking.

It’s not a bad idea at all, but we’d need a lot more time, on top of everything else, to get it right.

(tokamak) #16

You would need to let the crouched player give a signal before he’s able to be used as a bounce pad.

Or light guys could give a signal they’re ready to be tossed by a heavy :smiley:

(.Chris.) #17

Broken walls on Radar were a stroke of genius.

(BrigandSk(A)) #18

Overview

If the “pushing up” can be only enabled by the helper/croucher by holding his SMART button in order to become “dynamic random terrain”, this means there wont be any misunderstands during fights, escapes or tight areas.

The issue might be more about animations, when they get triggered or not, because I don’t know if there should be an animation for getting set ready for a “push up”, imagine some1 in the middle of the field doing the animation just because he’s holding SMART button.

Perhaps this can also be solved if the croucher/helper has to be close to a wall or obstacle (areas where SMART button triggers/works) while holding SMART button to enable the helping process for the “push up”.

Animations

Not sure if it is imperative to add great and extensive animations for the person who is helping the other one climbing, simply because the idea is to become a ladder where the climber has only to place 1 foot over his leg (femur bone spot) and then the 2nd and last step over his shoulder and finally the climber does a small hop.
The croucher job is to sustain the climber and become an obstacle with steps, aka ladder. To look good there could be some sort of steady solid stable position animation where the croucher slightly flexes and distributes his weigh and this happens when he’s holding the SMART button next to a climbable surface, so if there’s no way possible to help some1 to get somewhere he would never do the ready animation while holding SMART button.

Review

Somewhere on the battlefield a team-mate requests help to get on a crate, a designated compatible body type goes for it (or dump this objective part). As soon as he gets there, he approaches the target wall/high obstacle and simply holds his SMART button (he flexes his legs and distributes his weigh), the climber runs towards who is helping him to get higher and when he starts to B climb over the “croucher”[/B] he places 1 foot on his leg and the next one on his shoulder, as soon as his hips get over the “croucher” head… he hops and grips on the designated surface.

This sounds simple and nice to me.

(light_sh4v0r) #19

Too much contextual stuff is bound to give problems. Especially if it’s all on the same button, you’ll just get the game interpreting your intentions wrong.

(DarkangelUK) #20

I’m guessing their testing produced more results than your speculation Brigand. I have faith that SD don’t include things that don’t work to their standards… so there was a good reason for it not making the cut.