cl_timenudge

(zAm) #1

i got a simple questions to the guys who worked on ET and know the netcode and the effect of some commands.

all know the cl_timenudge command, some hate it some like it and some give a shit on it cause they don’t know it :slight_smile:

a guy from clan gab (mindcrime from NL) ask rhea (coder of osp) if cl_timenudge do only affect on clients when u set it to -20 or something.

here u see a small copy of that statement.

GaBw|Mindcrime: i only still play rtcw actively, et sucks too much at the moment... :? GaBw|Mindcrime: personally, et lags too much, timenudge is even worse, ppl start selfkilling in order to deny you xp points…
GaBw|Mindcrime: btw i allways wanted to ask you that GaBw|Mindcrime: did you osp guys change something in the server code so that it recalculates differently when an opponent changes his timenudge
GaBw|Mindcrime: officially tn should only change the players perception GaBw|Mindcrime: but imho when i have an opponent playing with tn
GaBw|Mindcrime: he jerks around a lot more then when he does not use it GaBw|Mindcrime: tested it with some guys
GaBw|Mindcrime: ah, could you shed some light too on the timenudge thing for me? GaBw|Mindcrime: cause it’s a big discussion out there
GaBw|Mindcrime: especially since some leagues set PB cvar timenudge in 0 in ET GaBw|Mindcrime: agree with them
a|rheawrk: hey a|rheawrk: yea, TN is an issue with the engine itself
a|rheawrk: there is some client-prediction stuff that can smooth it no matter what the other player has for their TN a|rheawrk: I just need to add it in

//small pause
[i]
GaBw|Mindcrime: a|rheawrk hey
GaBw|Mindcrime: a|rheawrk yea, TN is an issue with the engine itself
GaBw|Mindcrime: a|rheawrk there is some client-prediction stuff that can smooth it no matter what the other player has for their TN
GaBw|Mindcrime: does that mean that I can notice another player being jumpy while HE is using TN? a|rheawrk: yes
GaBw|Mindcrime: do you by any chance know why the story lives that tn does not influence the view of another player a|rheawrk: nope, no idea, heh

[/i]
i talked to other guys like bani (coder of etpro). he said

<HFD|zAm> what u guys say about timenudge
<HFD|zAm> ?
<HFD|zAm> splashdamage said it isnt clientside only
<@[av]bani> +/- 50 should be ok, even 100
<@[av]bani> its not… its engine
<HFD|zAm> reah from osp said the same
<@[av]bani> its basically artificial latency
<HFD|zAm> so we made hard settings
<HFD|zAm> big flamming on news sides
<@[av]bani> but… hard to exploit
<HFD|zAm> we set timenudge to 0
<HFD|zAm> ^^
<@[av]bani> you can exploit it by changing it really fast… but
<@[av]bani> etpro doesnt let you do that anymore :slight_smile:
<@[av]bani> it delays changes to cl_timenudge for 5 seconds
<@[av]bani> and rate
<@[av]bani> soy ou cant use those lag scripts anymore
<HFD|zAm> yes i know the old q3 tricks
<@[av]bani> well etpro defeats them
<HFD|zAm> changing the cvars all the time and lag arround
<HFD|zAm> hehe
<@[av]bani> so its no longer such an issue
<@[av]bani> i would say,
<@[av]bani> timenudge 0 is only legit IFF g_antilag 1

i have made experience by myself in leagues and cups and if my enemy used cl_timenudge -20 my bullets didn’t hurt much and i got owned by a pf with pistol :slight_smile:
but i think i am not alone with this experience. i know much guys who also made this experience in wars.

so in the end of this post my question is would u prefer the leagues setting cl_timenudge 0 or do u think all this guys are talking shit?

hope the guys who are reading this aren’t any stupid flammers like in other forums or news pages. hope to get a simple answer from
[u][i]SPLASHDAMAGE[/u][/i]

zAm [HFD]
Admin of ESL ET
www.esl-europe.net

(Ubiquitous) #2

I’m glad there is antilag enabled in the leagues, and I am even more glad that there is a 0 limit on timenudge. If it goes the other way, I will instantly quit playing competition.

(k1ll3r) #3

At least in rtcw, -50 timenudge makes HUGE difference vs -20 or 0, even on lan games the difference is so noticeable. I play with -50 (on lan, since now its limited to -20 and -20 does make everything look jerky to me and doesnt help my aim anyway) and even with 0-3 ping there is a huge difference, bullets just seem to get instantaneously to where you are aiming (great for long range)

Me looking jerky with -50 ? My brother never complained.

(zAm) #4

we need an official answer :slight_smile:

(thore) #5

we had some trainwar couple of days ago.
on their server they really owned us, got twice the kills we got and simply
din’t leave us the glimpse of a chance. then for some lag reason we soon
decided to resume the match on OUR server… which has a 0 limit on TN.

first off, their whole team was unable to join… the screen was messed
with those nifty light blue pb kick msgs for unallowed cvar range. muharhar.
when the first one of them managed to get in, first thing he begged for was
disabling the TN limit. it ended up in some kind of arguing TN settings where
allowed in this or that league… but they couln’t really answer our question
on why the insist on using TN.

actually half of the team dared to join the match and we again gave it a try.
this time they still where slightly better, but the balancing was noticeable
evened. now the kill ratio per team was kinda 1:1… very obvious the TN
settings forced this change, as the pings nearly were the same on both
servers.

if you ask me, i’m happy with TN==0 settings… and i REALLY hope in
future games this whole console tweaking shit it prevented. ittt’s really
no fun to play with those kiddies claiming to have skill while just tweaking
the hell out of their config. picmip gave me some nightmares too. ahhhh!

(magnum_) #6

tweaking ur config doesn’t make u a better player. if u suck, and u tweak ur config, u may be able to see better and make it brighter. you could even make it run better, but ur still gonna suck…

(bani) #7

if you are going to enforce cl_timenudge 0, then you should enable g_antilag 1

if you are going to enforce g_antilag 0, then cl_timenudge IN -50 0 or so. i cant see legitimate use for values outside that.

but really, there arent any legitimate arguments against antilag…

(kotkis) #8

bani, could you explain what does g_antilag 1 do exactly and what does it have to do with timenudge?

(bani) #9

all about antilag technology

its called ‘unlagged’ in haste’s q3 mod. id/nerve/sd adopted it as ‘antilag’ in rtcw and et (after i introduced it in my rtcw mod :smiley: ) the code in rtcw and et pretty much the same as q3’s unlagged (and my rtcw mod it is exactly the same as unlagged)

basically everything in that faq should be 100% accurate description for the antilag in rtcw and et.

(k1ll3r) #10

thore, as far as i know the engine itself draws everything ~50ms later so (been told by a friend of mine who’s a programmer and cared to examine code) your actual ping even on localhost would be 50; timenudge makes your client predict things, so -50 would kind of compensate for these 50ms things take to be drawn. I notice a huge difference playing with 0 tn and -50 , especially on long range shooting with 75 ping (rtcw, I dont play et anymore). - but as I said on my other post, even on LAN with 0ms ping tn does make a difference.

And I dont agree with tn making you look jerky to other players, once I was told ‘my aim improved a lot with tn’ because no one could hit me, wrong, it improved because i’m seeing things as they are happening so sometimes i’ve headshotted someone twice turning a corner and they couldn’t even react.

(zAm) #11

thats not correkt when u use timenudge over -20 u will lag physikaly

back to bani :slight_smile:

so u say when u use antilag 1 u shouldnt use timenudge - values right???

(kotkis) #12

So if I’ve understood everything correctly (with my poor english skills):

  • cl_timenudge compensates the internet lag by predicting things to happen. This makes it easier for laggers to play like the rest of the people.
  • Some players say that it makes players look jerky. Rhea says it is possible in theory. Bani confirms that but says that it’s all ok inside ±50. Because most leagues limit timenudge to -50 or -20, there shouldn’t be any problems, right?
  • cl_timenudge doesn’t matter if g_antilag is set to 1, right?

So if it’s all correct, then I see no reason to limit timenudge to more than -20 :/. From my experience timenudge gives you some weird headshots (behind the wall for example). This is exactly what antilag is said to do, if I understood banis link correctly. There was also said that antilag may affect how a player is drawn from others view point, so it should be the same as with timenudge? Please correct everything that I’ve got wrong :confused:

(DG) #13

fwiw, and thats not a lot, I think a lot of the suspicion pointed at timenudge is because of what’s fairly obvious in that “cant see the woods for the tree’s” kind of way - players with poor connections are more likely to use timenudge, and higher settings of timenudge, than players with good connections. Hence, you see a warpy player, do /players and see he has -20 timenudge or whatever. A lot of people seem more than willing to assume it is the -20 tn causing the warp, rather than the warp causing the use of timenudge. FUD.

but then everything I’ve read (and confirmed above) says players should really use timenudge 0 when g_antilag is 1 - for their own benefit. in rtcw i use tn -20, in ET where g_antilag is usually 1 I use 0 tn.