Character Class and Abilities restriction idea for Brink 2

(SinDonor) #1

Warning: This is a long read, proceed with caution…

So, in Brink with the 24 ability points earned by a fully-leveled character, you pretty much can load up any single class with all abilities, pick most good Universal abilities, and almost fill a 2nd class with its most important abilities or instead pick 2-4 of the better abilities of the other 3 classes.

If you’re smart about it, you don’t even have to fully load up a class, as you only have enough space on your Ability-Wheel D-Pad thing for 3 abilities. So, for example, if you’re an Engy, on the D-Pad you can place either Mines, Kevlar, Pyro Mines, and Turrets. That’s 4 items for only three spots. If you choose to not hand out Kevlar, and instead go with the other three, why waste an ability point on the Kevlar?

With this in mind, there are very many Level 20+ characters out there that are actually 2-class characters. Every one of my characters other than my medic, is also a very good medic. I have the 2 extra supply pips, Laz Nade, FRU, Improved Life Buff, and maybe either Meta/Speed/Adren on my Engy, Soldier, and Ops characters.

My Medic has the few team-buff abilities from both Soldier and Engy. My Jack character is split between the four classes (minus Ops) with mostly teamwork/buff abilities.

(I’ll explain WHY a bit later, but) My idea for Brink 2 is to designate a MAIN class for each of your characters so the abilities you can purchase are limited to that character only, plus just a few for each of the other classes.

For example:

If you choose to make an Engy, he can fully max out the Engy Abilities, but you’re restricted to no more than 2-3 abilities for the other classes… including Universal! Perhaps even restrict it further to NOT allow a specific character class to use any of the Rank 5 Abilities of the other classes either.

“Who told you to do this? This was not the plan! …What were you thinking!?”

I believe this will really enforce better teamwork and will stop players from being able to main 3 classes per character (Universal/Engy/Medic or Universal/Soldier/Engy, etc). It will give your characters a better sense of being unique, and not just another 3-class mash-up that can pretty much run an entire match without the need for much help from your teammates. You’ll still be able to switch classes mid-match if necessary to complete an Obj, but obviously, you won’t have as much as an advantage.

I also want the Universal abilities (with some tweaking) as its own class, so true Jack characters will get to use all Universal abilities and only 2-3 of the other classes. I would do these ability swaps:

Soldier Scavenge to Universal
Medic Transfer Supplies to Universal (and give it a BIG boost in XP award)
Universal Combat Awareness to Soldier
Soldier Flashbang to Medic or create a new ability and give Medic a Smoke Grenade

Either FB or Smoke will help the Medic enter a battlefield with some cover and heal some people.

So, in addition to this BIG design change in this area, I’d like to add a couple of other “nice-to-haves” if this idea was ever implemented:

  1. Character switching between matches. I wish this would be a function for Brink 1, but if my idea above would be implemented, then we’d definitely need to ability to switch characters between each match (not during), without having to drop out to the main menu. Going from an O map to a D map, I’d definitely want to change from a Soldier to a Medic or an Ops to an Engy, etc.

  2. Customized outfits for specific classes. I’d still have many customizable clothing options in the game, but make them unique per class. Give Medics some doctor scrubs and the sort. Give Ops the black leather and tight ninja suits. Give Engies the hard hats and bomb suits. Give Soldiers the bullet proof vests and helmets, etc. This way, we’ll be able to see unique characters running around the battlefield, but we’ll know what class they are by just looking at them. Each class could still have a choice of 50 different clothing items to mix and match, just that most clothing items would be unique to each class.

Ok, break time is over, I gotta get back to work…

(VG_JUNKY) #2

thing is if ur characters can only be 1 class and only hav a few other class abilities it would just not work in pub matches…
so often i join a game where r entire team r soildier except for 1 engie doing the objective, U need to be able to switch between classes on the fly cuz there r morons plyn for killz, not for the objective :mad:
this would work perfect with ppl who know what there doing, but without tweeking would screw up pub games even more

(SinDonor) #3

[QUOTE=VG_JUNKY;375573]thing is if ur characters can only be 1 class and only hav a few other class abilities it would just not work in pub matches…
so often i join a game where r entire team r soildier except for 1 engie doing the objective, U need to be able to switch between classes on the fly cuz there r morons plyn for killz, not for the objective :mad:
this would work perfect with ppl who know what there doing, but without tweeking would screw up pub games even more[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I’m with you there. But this game sucks in Pub Standard with a bunch of Randoms anyways. I can’t play this game with rando’s. I’d rather play solo vs hard AI bots.

The only way to play this game is with a team. And good teams know and play together regularly.

(wolfnemesis75) #4

I’ll probably get flamed as usual but here goes: Why not a Dual-class option? Like in AD&D you could Dual Class, (Ranger, Paladin, Rogue, Monk) it just meant you had to use an Extra Ability point per ability chosen outside your Primary Class selection. This would mean that each Dual Class character you create would be locked with a primary class similar to how Tattoos are locked: You are making a choice that is locked with Dual Class Level Requirements. The balance would be in the fact that you must use extra ability points at the expense of being a dual class every time you level up. For example, where-as a non-dual class player spends ability points at a 1:1 ratio, Dual Class is 2:1 (Each skill requires 1 extra point than it otherwise would) So instead of having Medic, Soldier, Operative, Engineer, now you can choose a Dual Class as a fifth option. Perhaps if you dual class you’re restricted to Medic or Soldier as a primary ONLY. And then you dual class so you end up with, Medic Assault, Assault Operative, etc.

(VG_JUNKY) #5

like the idea wolf, just dont like that u wouldn’t be able to respec…
i hated that with the tattoos :smiley:

(wolfnemesis75) #6

[QUOTE=VG_JUNKY;375579]like the idea wolf, just dont like that u wouldn’t be able to respec…
i hated that with the tattoos :D[/QUOTE]I should reword that. You can still respec, you just are locked into the restriction of Dual Class.

In D&D you could be a Fighter/Thief. Fighter was dominant Trait and Thief was secondary, but both were active. The balancing was that it costs extra to level up “abilities” in each because of how much learning/studying required to perform two disciplines, hence the required extra ability point. So, in Brink, if you’re getting 1 pt per level, if you’re a Dual Class character it takes you twice as long to level up into an ability. And eventually, you have less overall abilities, but have Dual Class objective ability.

(SinDonor) #7

That’s a good idea too Wolf. Nice…

(wolfnemesis75) #8

Not everyone may agree Sin. I am just offering what I’d think may be a fun option. If you’re an indecisive person like me, or really like certain aspects of more than one class, and feel like you only get to play half of what you personally feel would be your ideal choice, that’s where the dual class option came in with D&D. It allowed you to be freer to play the exact way you wanted to: but it came at a hefty cost: you are limiting ultimately the power if you were to be a one class character. Its a sacrifice some would be willing to make. But again, this is just what I feel could be fun.

Another option for Dual Class: You must first level up to 10 or something. Then you can choose Dual Class and the restrictions start in terms of ability point ratio. Or once you’re rank 4 you can use your final rank ability points towards Dual Class. Several ways it could possibly be done to be fair. So that you never get to Rank 5 in one particular class, and are essentially a Rank 4 in terms of skills with the secondary class that’s rank 2. Or something like that.

(L00fah) #9

This kind of approach severely limits the gameplay… There would be even less chance of any of us getting picked up by medics, buffed, or given ammo.
Unfortunately, I can’t support this.

This game was based around “freedom” and “versatility.” We shouldn’t be given an ultimatum like this…

(Teufel_Eldritch) #10

but… but… I like BRINK classes the way they are. pout I’m gunna agree with L00fah here.

(SinDonor) #11

[QUOTE=L00fah;375607]This kind of approach severely limits the gameplay… There would be even less chance of any of us getting picked up by medics, buffed, or given ammo.
Unfortunately, I can’t support this.

This game was based around “freedom” and “versatility.” We shouldn’t be given an ultimatum like this…[/QUOTE]

Disagree. There will still be Medics and Soldiers on the field, but that’s what they’ll be for the match, not some Swiss Army Knife super soldier that can do EVERYTHING. This will promote better teamwork and will make players choose their characters carefully, instead of just spreading out ability points around all the best Rank 5 abilities, etc.

Plus, if you join a match that has too many medics, and you joined as a medic, then next match, switch to another character and rock that class.

Besides, to counter your point, base Medics can still buff and revive, base Soliders can still hand out ammo, and base Engies can still buff guns. If you’re gonna switch, then switch. You’ll still be able to perform the basic class abilities, and even have 2-3 extra abilities for the other 2ndary classes your character isn’t maining.

(Hot-Wire) #12

I support the popular consensus.

“Hot-Wire out”

(RabidAnubis) #13

I already described how they did the Grind wrong.

I think that was the TRUE issue with the game. It was boring at first… but tier 5 abilities = RAW EPIC

If we began with the best THEN specialized, it would be much better.

Identification should be done differently. I disagree with that idea.

(MrFoxer) #14

I wouldn’t count on there being a brink 2, the first game barely has enough content as it is.

(H0RSE) #15

My idea for Brink 2 is to designate a MAIN class for each of your characters so the abilities you can purchase are limited to that character only, plus just a few for each of the other classes.

For example:

If you choose to make an Engy, he can fully max out the Engy Abilities, but you’re restricted to no more than 2-3 abilities for the other classes… including Universal! Perhaps

Instead of restricting the number of other class abilities characters can have from the start, why not just make them cost more, so the main class abilities would always cost 1 credit, but any other class would cost like 2 or more credits per ability.

(Teufel_Eldritch) #16

I can’t speak for others but the fact that way can spec our characters they way we can is one of the things that I like about BRINK. Classes aren’t nearly as defined, set in stone, as say TF2. If this were to be changed BRINK wouldn’t have near the freedom it does now. Teamplay doesn’t depend so much what your character is but how you play it. I don’t think we should all be punished for the actions of non-teamplayers. Don’t change the game, change the players.

(BROTOX) #17

^ He said it… better than I could. If something like this happened then we would need to be able to change characters midgame. But that would create other problems so I have to disagree with OPs idea.

(SinDonor) #18

Yeah, that’s fine with me and I think Wolf had a similar idea. Either way, players wouldn’t have these powerhouse characters which are pretty much 3 classes in 1, (i.e. Universal+2 others).

(tokamak) #19

I fully recognise the issue you’re trying to solve. Brink’s customisation is pointless because there isn’t really much substantial difference between the possible builds.

Your idea is an explicit restriction though, and it would go a long way in solving it, it’s not really nuanced and definitely not elegant. It shouldn’t just be a cut and dry choice in class, that’s too simplistic in the other end. Like Horse said, simply increasing the costs would be much nicer.

My idea would be to make rank 1 abillities cost 1 coin, rank 2, two coins and rank 3 three coins. That way people can have all rounder builds with the rank 1 abilities but if they want higher ranks they’re forced to chose between the classes.

It’s definitely silly that you can have a character with the highest ranks for each class.

(wolfnemesis75) #20

I feel that how it works currently makes it fun for most people who do want to have all the high ranks. I’d just give more options in terms of either Specialization or Dual Class options; at the cost of extra ability points so that it broadens the range of not only choices you have but how you want to play, with the restrictions imposed by the player rather than exclusively the game forcing a direction, so that everything has pluses and minus. The more options and freedom that’s given, within a system that keeps it relatively balanced, would be much more fun. Whenever you force a playstyle on the player, that’s where frustration can come in. So, using the current presence of Brink’s ranks and levels, it would be neat imo to just go one step further and offer up hard choices: Do you Dual Class so that you can be more of a team guy, or Do you focus on your individual strength within the team so that when your Class Role is required, you give your team what they need at that particular moment? Or do you specialize so that, at the cost of being nearly ineffective outside your class, you are a boss within it?

One of the downsides of this idea (besides with purists who feel you should only be one class at a particular time) is the order in which Objectives need to be accomplished. If you’re dual class as Engineer Operative on Shipyard, you’d have a significant advantage over a team without that. BUT, this is why I suggested that if you choose to Dual Class, you are either a Medic primary, or a Soldier Primary, and can only be a Secondary of the other classes. Still, this is a kind of restriction, but its still broadens what we have currently, I feel. And is just one example of how it could be done, not necessarily the perfect way.