Change the default loadouts (IMO DB's main issue)

(DarkangelUK) #1

I think one of the main issues and the main contributors to DB’s ongoing problems across the board are the default loadout cards for a few of the mercs. Bare with me here as this may be a little long-winded.

I think absolute root of the issue is the default cards… SD want the new player experience to be good, so a new player that chooses squishy Aura with a shotgun needs to at least be able to kill, if shotguns are useless at range then they will think the game is trash and leave, so to ease this entry to the game shotguns have been made to do well at distance and gives newbie mcnewbtits a feeling of accomplishment and a chance of winning a fight at mid-distance. It’s my thinking that shotguns should never be placed into a fresh players hands in the first place. I’m not saying remove them completely (i’m being realistic here), but don’t make them instant access.

All defaults that have shotguns should be changed and replaced with SMG’s where possible, obviously this cant happen with Rhino. They should be tweaked to act more like a shotgun with high close range damage and large spread making them poorer at distance. Keep shotguns available via loadout cards where they’re stuck behind a purposeful choice when equiping, this negates a lot of the pressure of having to make shotguns viable in every situation because some users are stuck with them as their only option due to lack of loadouts. By the time players get access to a shotgun, they’re actively choosing to take a shotgun into battle with the possibility it could be a poor choice on a more open map, where as they’ll always have access to the always viable SMG.

No player at the starting level should get a shotgun, all new entrants to this game should get an SMG, all players new to a merc should get an SMG, and all purchasers of Obsidian cards shouldn’t be shoe-horned into a bad weapon because the Obsidians simply MUST have the same loadout as defaults.

(Z Gako) #2

I AGREE. (Why is this an uncomplete sentence?)

#3

I would love the ability to choose our default loadout after unlocking a Merc. I think that’d actually be neat.

(DarkangelUK) #4

I get the thinking behind that and I understand, but ideally I don’t want actual new players wedging them into a shotgun without getting the basics of standard guns first. SG’s are balanced on the premise that they need to viable as they are the only option for a merc at one point, therefore newbies have to do well with them which has made the rest of us suffer for it. Basically giving people the choice to pick their loadout means they could still pick a shotgun, and therefore it will still have to be “viable” in SD’s eyes which keeps them problematic.

#5

That’s fair, admittedly I’m just biased because I like how the default skins look and I’d run them on every loadout if I could, however I’m not in agreement with this:

I understand the angle you’re coming from, but I have a hard time believing SD has or would make any balance changes simply because a small select number of beginners would be stuck with a shotgun on a default loadout. It only takes, what, two matches to earn enough Credits to buy a Bronze and level up? That said, I wholeheartedly agree that shotguns should be removed from defaults for the sake of more variety/flexibility as a new player. Also, most of us hate shotguns and rightfully so. Anyway, not trying to nitpick. I like the idea, I just don’t think we’re suffering from it. We’re suffering because SD insists on keeping those pieces of trash shotguns in their current state, regardless.

(shaftz0r) #6

i dont understand. How is this any different than any other game that makes you grind to unlock weapons? Every cod game and every battlefield game in existence starts you with total garbage weapons. at least in this game you have something usable that everyone else has access to

(bgyoshi) #7

If I remember right new players start with Haggis, Aura, and (now) Bushy

So new players can pick an AR loadout, SMG loadout, or shotgun loadout. They get their choice of the main three weapons off the bat. What’s the issue again???

(DarkangelUK) #8

Shotguns aren’t garbage weapons, they’re tweaked to be somewhat unshotgunny and can 2-HK people from longer distances than should be happening, they’re a crutch to be honest and IMO should be reeled back to behave more like a shotgun and less like a long range snipershotgun that has little spread at distance. To combat this change, instead of giving new players a situational newly tweaked shotgun, give them SMG’s instead.

Indeed but other mercs have SG as defaults as well, not just the free ones (yes not a huge amount but still). I’d want them to go more situational and better reserved for CQC maps but bad at long range which new players wont understand, so instead give them all SMG’s to begin with.

(K1X455) #9

The maps need to be changed in a manner that shotguns will be less effective.

It’s not the loadout, it’s not the player, it’s not the shotgun… it’s where the shotgun is used that makes the controversy.

Ever noticed how well shotguns are used in Dome where there’s a lot of open areas?

I do however, like the idea of giving Aura an SMG-9 instead of Remburg; and Turtle should get the Remburg like in the Scrubs Trailer; and Kira get’s an SMG-9 as well :stuck_out_tongue: rather than the defunct Stark AR. I’m sure a lot of players will call for serious NERFs if this ever happens.

(DarkangelUK) #10

I was being realistic, the maps wont get changed to accommodate the weapon in its current form. Its needs to changed to be the situational gun it should be and not the ‘always viable’ mess we have now.

(Press E) #11

I agree with this so much, and it’s something I’ve been wanting for ages. Default cards are supposed to be your window to the game and to help you learn how to play, but shotguns are a terrible representation of what you’ll actually see in the rest of the game

Not only that, but the rest of us constantly have to run into new players who can’t aim at all, but still manage to kill you in one or two hits from a lucky shot, it’s just frustrating in a high ttk game.

I wish they’d completely revert the buffs tbh. They were very easy to use before, but as they are now, it’s just stupid. A weapon doesn’t have to be good in every situation just because the people using it don’t know how to play the game yet.

(bgyoshi) #12

Going off the top of my head, the only mercs that have shotguns in the default loadout are mercs that have the BLSHLOK as the second primary, with the sole exception of Proxy. Rhino you already pointed out, but otherwise it’s Fletcher, Aura, and Proxy. I’m more than certain the idea behind the first 4 default loadouts is to give players experience with the 3 biggest types of primaries and all of the merc roles.

If a player doesn’t like the shotguns or think they’re bad, they have two other classes to play without them. If they like shotguns from the start, why see it as a bad thing? There’s only 2 more mercs that can be bought who default shotguns, which means they have to pretty specifically target a merc with shotguns to get more, and I wouldn’t consider the BLSHLOK to be particularly new-user friendly. Not to mention, there’s a ton of new player rewards and they’re getting their 5th and 6th mercs pretty fast.

And if they use shotguns as a crutch, either they get the crutch from the start or they buy the crutch later. Either way, it won’t affect the frequency of the weapon’s use.

With 4 mercs and a choice between AR, SMG, or Shotgun, I don’t think the new player experience is diminished by the current default loadouts. If anything, MORE default cards should be added. I don’t see a problem with having a default card for each primary type for each merc. They don’t even need to change the augments.

(K1X455) #13

OK so think about it. Shotguns get nerfed beyond their effectivity in game (like the Stark AR and the BR-16) that no barely use it anymore. What comes out of that move? A total of five weapons with lessened or lowered utility. What does that mean when it comes to weapon diversity in matches? I know what you’re trying to put across, but your solution creates more problems and could possibly be detrimental to the health of the game. The reason why loadouts exists in this game means that players have a choice. Now if the default is not suitable for their liking, then the default will be an interim option that can be changed.

As for the case of Rhino, well… I can’t understand why he’ll recourse to using shotguns all the time other than waiting for the minigun to cool down.

(DarkangelUK) #14

Id prefer they just removed shotguns all together as I dont feel they fit in this game or can be balanced effectively enough to fit, but again I’m trying to be realistic :wink: If no one chose them then that’s the next best thing

(K1X455) #15

Like what I said in Reddit… “Not gonna happen”

and I believe Fragger has something to say as well…

Deal with it!.

(DarkangelUK) #16

Nothing about anything is ever gonna happen, but i can still theory craft and discuss things since this is a discussion forum and all, if you dont want to participate because you think nothing will ever happen and its pointless then feel free to not join in

(K1X455) #17

I’m just keeping your feet on the ground.

Even after 1.0 release, I still see petty bugs that should have been fixed, but hey. I got a fair bit of slack to give SD. I’m still expecting a fix for the EV bug though, cause as far as I know, that thing happened only after 2016. Back in 2015, things were “better”.

(bgyoshi) #18

–Smooth transition of a thread about default cards to a thread about shotgun balance–

Shotguns are pretty much trash weapons by now. They were much nicer before when you have to get in close and got rewarded with mostly 1 HKs when you hit the head. At the range they are now, the damage is just worse, and if you aren’t close, you miss more pellets than it’s worth. So you have to get in close anyway, and even then, you take a minimum of 2 shots to kill anything under 100 HP assuming perfect aim (all 8 pellets hitting the opp both times @ max damage) and minimum of 3 for everyone 120 and over. Most classes over 100 in reality will take 3 shots since people just don’t have perfect aim.

Back when shotguns were a viable weapon, I still rarely got killed by them; considering I learned how to use a gun, and shot down charging enemies before they got close enough to do real damage. But now, dying to a shotgun is just completely inexcusable. They are without question a worthless weapon and nerfed into the floor.

#MSGA

(henki000) #19

Shotguns are like snipers. Nerfed to ground, where nobody think they are OP and spite their existence. I would incease their damage to 80 (headshot, very close range) and increase pellet spread and reload time.

(DarkangelUK) #20

A gun that 2 HK’s from medium distance (basically a low TTK weapon in a supposedly high TTK game) is not trash, if you perform poorly with it then that’s not the guns fault at this moment in time. I agree it should be deadly at close range, however also useless at long range, which in turn leads to my point of removing a situational/niche gun from new players hands by defaults changes and making shotguns… well… shotguns